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50/50 Tek


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#1 Vikings333

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Posted 22 October 2019 - 09:22 PM

A friend shared this simple bulk tek using 50/50 Verm and coir. Thoughts? Using WBS for spawn. 

 

Also no pasteurizing? just boiling water and in a sealed 5 gal bucket. Too easy...


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#2 Vikings333

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 11:07 PM

Any input? Usually I add coffee grounds of black cow poo..



#3 Billcoz

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 03:35 AM

That 50/50 coir/verm bucket method works every time I do it, and it does pasteurize in the bucket, I have used a thermometer to verify that is was 160F+ more than an hour and a half after sealing it. I did wrap insulation around the bucket right after putting the lid on.

 

After dumping in the boiling water, let steam escape for like 30 seconds before putting the lid on, it can blow off at your face lol. Once the big cloud of steam poofs off it should be good, put the lid on, wrap the bucket up in a blanket/insulation, shake after 30 minutes to start mixing and break down the coir brick, then wait 1-2 hours.

 

Then mix it up and make sure it's field capacity by squeezing a  big handful as hard as you can, it should drip but only one or two drops at most.

 

If you need to add water, go ahead(clean, distilled) but be careful, there's a fine line between too dry and too wet. If it's too wet and it's still hot and steaming leave the lid off the bucket or even spread it out on something to steam away some water, just check for field cap often. If that doesn't work, if it's too cool to steam dry you can squeeze it out with a pillowcase or t shirt(clean). 

 

An 650 gram(8 quart) coir brick with 6-8 quarts of verm should take 1.25-1.5 gallons of water to get to field capacity, I start with 1.25 gal(boiled) and it seems to be about right. Let that shit cool well before mixing with spawn, like 8 hours at least.


Edited by Billcoz, 24 October 2019 - 03:38 AM.

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#4 Vikings333

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 11:25 PM

That 50/50 coir/verm bucket method works every time I do it, and it does pasteurize in the bucket, I have used a thermometer to verify that is was 160F+ more than an hour and a half after sealing it. I did wrap insulation around the bucket right after putting the lid on.

 

After dumping in the boiling water, let steam escape for like 30 seconds before putting the lid on, it can blow off at your face lol. Once the big cloud of steam poofs off it should be good, put the lid on, wrap the bucket up in a blanket/insulation, shake after 30 minutes to start mixing and break down the coir brick, then wait 1-2 hours.

 

Then mix it up and make sure it's field capacity by squeezing a  big handful as hard as you can, it should drip but only one or two drops at most.

 

If you need to add water, go ahead(clean, distilled) but be careful, there's a fine line between too dry and too wet. If it's too wet and it's still hot and steaming leave the lid off the bucket or even spread it out on something to steam away some water, just check for field cap often. If that doesn't work, if it's too cool to steam dry you can squeeze it out with a pillowcase or t shirt(clean). 

 

An 650 gram(8 quart) coir brick with 6-8 quarts of verm should take 1.25-1.5 gallons of water to get to field capacity, I start with 1.25 gal(boiled) and it seems to be about right. Let that shit cool well before mixing with spawn, like 8 hours at least.

 

For how many quarts of spawn?



#5 Billcoz

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Posted 25 October 2019 - 12:34 AM

 

 

For how many quarts of spawn?

 

Usually it is a 1:1 - 1:3 spawn to sub ratio. The coir brick is 8 quarts and if you add 8 quarts of vermiculite, that makes roughly

16 qts, so at most 16 qts of spawn, but you obviously don't have to use all the sub mix.

 

A 1:2 ratio is a good one, so 1 qt spawn to 2 qts coir/verm mix. If you want to add a casing layer you can use the coir/verm mix, it's good to sterilize it in jars if casing with it. Just add a thin layer, just enough to cover the surface after filling the spawn sub to however deep you want, minus like 1/4". Just make it so you can't see exposed grains/spawn.

 

Once you have spawned it, cover the surface with foil with a few pin holes poked in, lay it right on the sub/casing. Cover any holes in the tub with tape and cover the top of the tub with foil or the lid for the tub, just leave it a tad loose so a tiny bit of air can get in.

 

Leave it in colonizing conditions for at least 10 days and check it. If the surface is fully colonized patch the orig casing if you added one. If using no casing you can put it in fruiting conditions(if fully colonized) and take the tape off the holes in the tub, but it's better to wait a few more days, until you see primordia or even pins before putting it in fruiting, but you can if the surface is fully colonized.

 

Delayed casings are good too, you wait until myc has colonized most of the surface and then add your casing. That is good because if you add the casing when you spawn instead of delaying the casing will get colonized, but you can cover any colonized areas of the surface with more casing, or even use a fork to break up just the very surface(ONLY if you added a casing when you spawned), just as deep as the casing was, then patch it with new casing mix.. 

 

That's about it I think, Sorry if I repeated stuff and typed way too much, I try to get all the details out lol. Good luck.


Edited by Billcoz, 25 October 2019 - 12:37 AM.

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#6 FunG

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 02:30 AM

You dont need to pasteurize verm or coir, both are none nutricious and dont contain any micro organisms (like the beneficial stuff found on manure)

Pasteurizing is a way to kill off mold spores on manure based subs but not heating it enough to destroy the beneficial microbes that mycelium benefits from which are only found in "manure based substrates"

Sterilize verm/coir if need be it but usually just using the bucket tek never fails.

Hopefully I've adjusted a few heads here so the confusion doesnt spread....either way will work with verm/coir but sometimes with aged manure you get a fungus called firefang and that is so nutritional to mycelium it will double the yield, not even lieing, but you dont want to ever sterilize nuggets with firefang, pasteurize only.
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#7 Vikings333

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Posted 29 October 2019 - 06:03 PM

 

 

 

For how many quarts of spawn?

 

Usually it is a 1:1 - 1:3 spawn to sub ratio. The coir brick is 8 quarts and if you add 8 quarts of vermiculite, that makes roughly

16 qts, so at most 16 qts of spawn, but you obviously don't have to use all the sub mix.

 

A 1:2 ratio is a good one, so 1 qt spawn to 2 qts coir/verm mix. If you want to add a casing layer you can use the coir/verm mix, it's good to sterilize it in jars if casing with it. Just add a thin layer, just enough to cover the surface after filling the spawn sub to however deep you want, minus like 1/4". Just make it so you can't see exposed grains/spawn.

 

Once you have spawned it, cover the surface with foil with a few pin holes poked in, lay it right on the sub/casing. Cover any holes in the tub with tape and cover the top of the tub with foil or the lid for the tub, just leave it a tad loose so a tiny bit of air can get in.

 

Leave it in colonizing conditions for at least 10 days and check it. If the surface is fully colonized patch the orig casing if you added one. If using no casing you can put it in fruiting conditions(if fully colonized) and take the tape off the holes in the tub, but it's better to wait a few more days, until you see primordia or even pins before putting it in fruiting, but you can if the surface is fully colonized.

 

Delayed casings are good too, you wait until myc has colonized most of the surface and then add your casing. That is good because if you add the casing when you spawn instead of delaying the casing will get colonized, but you can cover any colonized areas of the surface with more casing, or even use a fork to break up just the very surface(ONLY if you added a casing when you spawned), just as deep as the casing was, then patch it with new casing mix.. 

 

That's about it I think, Sorry if I repeated stuff and typed way too much, I try to get all the details out lol. Good luck.

 

 

Do you save your sub for next time and just rehydrate?



#8 Billcoz

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 04:15 AM

You dont need to pasteurize verm or coir, both are none nutricious and dont contain any micro organisms (like the beneficial stuff found on manure)

Pasteurizing is a way to kill off mold spores on manure based subs but not heating it enough to destroy the beneficial microbes that mycelium benefits from which are only found in "manure based substrates"

Sterilize verm/coir if need be it but usually just using the bucket tek never fails.

Hopefully I've adjusted a few heads here so the confusion doesnt spread....either way will work with verm/coir but sometimes with aged manure you get a fungus called firefang and that is so nutritional to mycelium it will double the yield, not even lieing, but you dont want to ever sterilize nuggets with firefang, pasteurize only.

No one here said that it is necessary to pasteurize coir/verm. I said it does get to pasteurizing temps using the bucket method when sealed in with boiling water poured over/mixed with it.

 

I've actually made posts here in the past about not needing to pasteurize coir since it's heated to well beyond those temps when processed and packaged, and verm is pretty much the same way. 

 

I did recommend sterilizing the casing layer, not because it is necessary with coir/verm, it's just that that's what I do. I make my sub/casing mixes ahead of time and store it in an unsterile conditions(in a big bag on the floor), so I sterilize it to kill off anything that might have gotten into it.


Edited by Billcoz, 30 October 2019 - 04:17 AM.

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#9 Vikings333

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 10:14 AM

Ok so spawned 2 tubs now opened up 10 days later. Some colonization on the top layer of just sub I put down while spawning. Does it need more time? Should I put down more sub and wait? Or go full fruit mode? Thanks!

 

 

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#10 PJammer24

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 10:30 AM

 

You dont need to pasteurize verm or coir, both are none nutricious and dont contain any micro organisms (like the beneficial stuff found on manure)

Pasteurizing is a way to kill off mold spores on manure based subs but not heating it enough to destroy the beneficial microbes that mycelium benefits from which are only found in "manure based substrates"

Sterilize verm/coir if need be it but usually just using the bucket tek never fails.

Hopefully I've adjusted a few heads here so the confusion doesnt spread....either way will work with verm/coir but sometimes with aged manure you get a fungus called firefang and that is so nutritional to mycelium it will double the yield, not even lieing, but you dont want to ever sterilize nuggets with firefang, pasteurize only.

No one here said that it is necessary to pasteurize coir/verm. I said it does get to pasteurizing temps using the bucket method when sealed in with boiling water poured over/mixed with it.

 

I've actually made posts here in the past about not needing to pasteurize coir since it's heated to well beyond those temps when processed and packaged, and verm is pretty much the same way. 

 

I did recommend sterilizing the casing layer, not because it is necessary with coir/verm, it's just that that's what I do. I make my sub/casing mixes ahead of time and store it in an unsterile conditions(in a big bag on the floor), so I sterilize it to kill off anything that might have gotten into it.

 

 

 

The main reason it isn't necessary to properly pasteurize coir and verm is because they are not nutritious... You don't have to worry about a trich spore or other contaminate starting a family on them....

 

I would not add coffee if I were you, especially to this mix... Coffee invites contamination as-is. If you are going to mix it into a substrate without beneficial microbes, that risk should be increased to a greater extent than a substrate that does have beneficial microbes...

 

I have coffee grounds available daily and I never use them... I don't feel the benefit is worthwhile.


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#11 Vikings333

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 03:14 PM

So time to fruit???



#12 Stroker

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 02:41 AM

I would give that a little more time, wait until you see some pins...

#13 Sidestreet

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 07:19 AM

Personally, I would introduce fruiting conditions if I hadn't already.  I'd be worried about overlay otherwise.  Even if you introduce fruiting conditions now, it will continue to grow through that top layer.

 

I'm sure others would do it differently.

 

Can we have another picture?


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#14 Vikings333

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 12:07 PM

Personally, I would introduce fruiting conditions if I hadn't already.  I'd be worried about overlay otherwise.  Even if you introduce fruiting conditions now, it will continue to grow through that top layer.

 

I'm sure others would do it differently.

 

Can we have another picture?

 

Whats overlay?



#15 PJammer24

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Posted 18 November 2019 - 08:54 AM

Personally, I would introduce fruiting conditions if I hadn't already.  I'd be worried about overlay otherwise.  Even if you introduce fruiting conditions now, it will continue to grow through that top layer.

 

I'm sure others would do it differently.

 

Can we have another picture?

 

A lot of long time growers will tell you that overlay does not occur with cubes....

 

I introduce my subs to fruiting conditions the moment they are spawned... If you are using a martha or similar system, you may want to wait until fully colonized but if your are using a tub or bags, I would have it sitting with everything I have fruiting from the get... You can't force fruit... It will fully colonize prior to the start of the fruiting process unless there is a competitor (contaminate)...


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#16 Sidestreet

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Posted 19 November 2019 - 06:35 AM

It may be true that overlay is very rare with Cubensis.  I honestly couldn't tell you what growth technically qualifies as overlay, so I'll amend my statement with the word "overgrowth".  I would put that substrate into fruiting conditions before it completely overgrows its surface and eliminates any chance of a micro-climate.  In the end it may not matter too much with cubes though.


Edited by Sidestreet, 19 November 2019 - 08:13 AM.


#17 PJammer24

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Posted 19 November 2019 - 11:30 AM

It may be true that overlay is very rare with Cubensis.  I honestly couldn't tell you what growth technically qualifies as overlay, so I'll amend my statement with the word "overgrowth".  I would put that substrate into fruiting conditions before it completely overgrows its surface and eliminates any chance of a micro-climate.  In the end it may not matter too much with cubes though.

 

I really don't know what constitutes overlay either... I just know that old RR doesn't believe it can happen with cubes and more often than not he is correct.



#18 SkinnyDIpper

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Posted 25 November 2019 - 12:32 AM

So, as far as general casing goes (in terms of bulk, tub grows) you just lay down a 1/4" layer and introduce fruiting conditions? Or do you case and continually patch until it colonizes at a somewhat even rate (i.e. the casing layer colonizes 100% pretty much at the same time)?

I'm trying to research the proper way to case. I use wheat berries currently for spawn and have gathered thus far that I need to mix the berry spawn into a coir/verm sub, let it colonize, then case... although I'm wondering if I can case immediately after laying down my sub.

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#19 PJammer24

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Posted 26 November 2019 - 09:36 AM

So, as far as general casing goes (in terms of bulk, tub grows) you just lay down a 1/4" layer and introduce fruiting conditions? Or do you case and continually patch until it colonizes at a somewhat even rate (i.e. the casing layer colonizes 100% pretty much at the same time)?

I'm trying to research the proper way to case. I use wheat berries currently for spawn and have gathered thus far that I need to mix the berry spawn into a coir/verm sub, let it colonize, then case... although I'm wondering if I can case immediately after laying down my sub.

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I don't use a casing layer at all when doing bulk substrates... It's really not necessary. If you are going to add one, I would just put it down and let it go... It doesn't matter when you introduce "fruiting conditions"... You can give it light at any time and if you raise temperatures for colonization (which is completely unnecessary) then you can reduce temperatures for fruiting at any time... Give them light, do your thing, and when they start to pin, give them some additional FAE...When the nutrient source is fully colonized, they will begin to fruit. You don't have to do anything and they will start doing their thing... All this talk about introducing the substrate to fruiting conditions is mumbo jumbo... Just add your casing layer throw it on a shelf with as much light as you want, and it is going to start pinning when it is colonized and ready... When it starts to pin, give it some additional FAE... It really is that simple.


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