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Golden Teachers/ APE - help requested


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#41 LegoMyego

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 10:14 AM

There are many different methods that work, hence the different ideas.  We're not there with you so it's impossible to give 100% accurate advice.  After rereading the thread, you've been given some solid advice from some very knowledgable and successful growers.  While your substrate is working on producing fruits, you work on patience.  Failed attempts and months of waiting are all part of this hobby.  Your tub will fruit when it is ready.  

 

However it seems you keep changing the conditions the tub is in.  This could have stalled your grow (or it just stalled on it's own, APE is very tricky).  I'd put down a layer of bubble wrap/wax paper on your substrate to create a CO2 layer for 2-3 days to "awaken" the mycelium.  One of my APE tubs was fully colonized for 2 and 1/2 weeks.  Just like you, I was panicked and kept messing with them.  Then one of the OGs described the above procedure.  I did the method described above, removed the bubble wrap, and three days later it had its first pins. 



#42 Ghostshroom

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 12:13 PM

I’m actually not even having problems with the apes it’s the golden teachers of all things. Lol and OK I’ll try to work on patience. But it’s not the waiting that’s worrying me. I wouldn’t mind if it takes another month. It’s the information overload of a bunch different methods. I have tubs with no filtration holes and my golden teachers seem to have stalled because I think I started doing the wrong thing at the wrong step because people weren’t reading my information. But thank you for the advice I don’t think I have saran wrap or wax paper but I can put a sheet of aluminum foil down and see if the carbon dioxide awakens the Mycillium. Thank you for the advice. I will keep you updated on the progress.

#43 FunG

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 01:36 PM

Hehehe I hear your frustration ghostshroom...

What worries me is that it's on week 3 (21days) since you've initiated pinning.

As soon as the co2 is dropped (right at the beginning) you can start counting down.....7 days you'll be seeing the myc get fuzzy 10 days you'll see primadora formations 14 days pins 21 days mushroom maturity.

You dont need to apply a casing unless you have a high spawn ratio that means theres going to be a lot of grain sitting at surfaces level.... if it's a low spawn ratio then I wouldn't bother....

The casing layer should be fully colonized by the mycelium. I dont know who said that it should remain uncolonized but clearly they've never applied damp cellulose material to a decomposer like cubensis, it eats it up after 24-48 hours now the correction is that you can begin fruiting a uncolonized casing layer since myc will continue to grow into it.

Keep up the fanning, and make sure it gets plenty of light....you'll get a much better pinset by ensuring it gets 12/12 off of (if possible) natural sunlight.

Now, do me a favor and give it a big whiff next time you fan and mist it, if it smells sour or foul then it might be bacterial..... the other concern I have is if it doesnt take to your casing layer (colonize it thoroughly) then the surface may have dried out when you applied the light.

The light intensity shouldn't dry the myc out, if you tuck the bin off into the corner of a well lit room that's plenty of light...direct sunlight from the window or a light source will dry it out.

If that's the case then you're option is to dunk the substrate for 6-8hours, remove the casing layer material (should be easy cause it wont colonize if it's in fact dryed out) and take a sterilized fork and scratch 1 to 1.5cm inward and scrape back the dryed out tissue and then neatly even the material again and cover it to let it recover for 72 hours....

That's the fix if the light dried it out...

And yes, you can trust a guy that cant remember at the moment if dried is spelt dried or dryed...FML the drugs are making me stupid but take my advice and research "deep scratching" to verify the fix solution and to remove any doubt;)

#44 Ghostshroom

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 04:14 PM

lol thanks man. I think the advice everybody gave me dried out my cake on the top. smh. So it won’t recover if it dried out on the top? That Mycillium won’t come back?

#45 PJammer24

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 04:29 PM

lol thanks man. I think the advice everybody gave me dried out my cake on the top. smh. So it won’t recover if it dried out on the top? That Mycillium won’t come back?

 

People love to give advice even when they probably shouldn't be.

 

The substrates in the photos are not too dry... At least they werent when the photo was taken. They look fantastic with really nice Rhizo growth... I just had some PEs take well over 3 weeks before they finally started fruiting... I have some Amazon that will be 3 weeks on Friday... Just be patient...

 

I mix my grain spawn with my substrate and then I do absolutely nothing until they start to pin... They sit on a shelf with other bags. They all get light. and they are all in a space that is 70F... They colonize just fine at 70F and they colonize completely despite the light...

 

The reason you have received a bunch of different answers is because its really easy to grow mushrooms and any of those way will work...

 

If you want to fan, then fan but they don't need to be fanned to begin fruiting... Mushrooms fruit out of necessity for survival. They colonize the available nutrient source and when there is no more food available, they fruit for procreation... They aren't going to stat fruiting as long as there is a food source to colonize and you can't force them to fruit like some noobs will tell you... You simply have to wait until they are ready...

 

Your photos look great! Just chill... They are going to fruit, its just hard to say when...

 

What was your spawn to substrate ratio? At 1:1. I see fruiting in approximately 2 weeks. FunG isn't looking at the big picture with his time frame... If you use less spawn and more substrate, there is going to be a longer period between spawning and fruiting...



#46 PJammer24

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 04:44 PM

Bro... I just looked back through your posts... You just mixed your spawn and substrate together 8 days ago... You have another week or so before you should be expecting anything... It often takes 1-14 days to colonize your spawn and then another 14+/- days for it to colonize the substrate and fruit... The reason it isn't pinning is because you haven't waited long enough...

 

You really just need to be patient... I think by the weekend you will start to see some results... If it was just me, I would leave it alone completely until the end of the week. if at the end of the week you are seeing signs that it is fruiting, then I would go ahead and start to fan and mist... If you mixed your substrate and spawn around 10/30 or 10/31 for the teachers, you still have 3-4 days before I would be expecting to see much of anything.

 

You are right on schedule... Nothing seems off to me... It is at least 21-28 days from inoculation to fruit and sometimes longer if you are starting from multi-spore or are working with a strain that takes longer to start fruiting.


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#47 Ghostshroom

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 04:46 PM

OK so I remove the casing layer off of the golden teachers. But what I did notice was that it seem to be that the golden teacher Mycillium was slightly starting to colonized the casing layer Because as I gently drag my fork across the substrate later I noticed that is starting to turn white and look like it was mycelium mixed with substrate instead of just white mycelium. So the fact that it started to colonize the substrate actually might be a good thing and may allow me another go at fruiting after it has finished coming back. So I’m going to leave and temperature is around 75 to 77° wait to see if I see any growth from the Mycillium and then try to wait and see if it starts to Pbecause as I gently drag my fork across the substrate later I noticed that it started to turn white and look like it was mycelium mixed with substrate instead of just white mycelium. So the fact that it started to colonize the substrate actually might be a good thing and may allow me another go at fruiting after it has finished coming back. So I’m going to leave and temperature is around 75 to 77° wait to see if I see any growth And if I see it colonizing the rest of the scattered thin substrate on top I will wait till it completely turns white then drop the CO2 levels and keep it in warm conditions until I see pins. Hopefully what I did was introduce more substrate for it to colonize before anything bad happened and now I’ll get another chance at fruiting. And by the way no there is no off smell. No bacteria no mold nothing. It smells like damp earth and mushrooms. So as far as I see there is no containers I have just got a barrage of different tactics instead of people reading what I’m doing and going off of that. I will wait and see how this colonized. Wish me luck.

#48 PJammer24

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 04:55 PM

You are making this wayyy too complicated... Mine colonize and fruit at the same temperature... In the winter its 68-73F and in the summer it is 70-75F... I never adjust the temperature.

 

You could have just left the casing layer on there and it would have been fine.

 

They looked healthy as hell, I would be really surprised if there was a contamination.

 

Like I said, you only mixed your spawn with the substrate 11 days ago... You aren't going to see pins for another 3-6 days or more... The APE may take longer than 3 weeks after you mix the spawn and substrate together...

 

Just leave them alone until Thursday and stop messing with them... There is nothing you can do to make them fruit faster... They have to finish colonizing (11 days is not enough) and then they will fruit...


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#49 FunG

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 06:16 PM

Noooooo! Do not bother deep scratching!

I said unless it is in fact dried out..mits not dried out, you dont need to deep scratch.

You made me scream out No! Loud enough for my entire apt building to hear...eeesh man, I'm really sorry you got what I told you mixed up.

Itll be ok just let it recover

If it was colonizing the casing material then it is not dry, I thought you'd give it another few days before you attempted anything since you just cased yesterday it will be 72hours for myc to recover and usually popping threw the casing on the 4th day.

Once the casing layer is fully colonized you can begin counting 7-14-21 those are the times for a 1:1 ratio, the days it takes from colonizing to fruiting adjust with the less amount of spawn you used so 1:2 would probably be something like 10-20-30

Anyways man, I feel so bad for you using the deep scratch, it's only ment as a last resort option for surfaces that have become cĺogged by dead mycelium. Yours is good, dont do any more damage...

I should have articulated what I told you a bit better to have avoided the confusion my apologies again

Edited by FunG, 11 November 2019 - 06:23 PM.

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#50 coorsmikey

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 08:38 PM

Yea with the APES. Idk if my Golden teacher tub is even going to make it at this point because I have listed info on how I’m growing and it seems like instead of reading how I’m doing it people are just throwing out a random method to continue on and I think my mics gana die. For example one guy told me to wait wait wait wait for full colonizeation and it was fully colonized it was just Rhyzomorphic growth. Another person said to leave it in the same invironment and it will just eventually pin. Another person said to put light on it fan it and mist it a few times a day and it dried my mic out because it didn’t have a casting layer. Doesn’t tell really seem like anybody on this site is on the same page and I’m actually feeling less secure about it than before. Some people say you want your casting to colonize a little ( which it’s NOT doing whatsoever because of the introduction to lower temps) then others say you don’t want it to colonize the casting at all. Nobody’s on the same page and I’m all over the place as to what to do with a fully colonized tub that has been colonized for weeks with nothing happening. Has a 2 day old casting layer and have been fanning and misting a few times a day dropped temps to 70 and introduced lights. Tubs have no holes I’m ONLY FANNING. Just moved it to the closet in Warmer temps to let the casing colonize a little before trying to fruit again. Going on week 3 of a fully colonized tub. THATS WHERE IM AT GUYS.

 

There are a few that offer advise based on experience rather than what they read. There are others that offer advice on their experiences of what they read and watched one videos. The problem with the folks that have the real experience to look at a photo and know exactly what is going on and what to do next is, will only say it once. Unless of course you ask for more of their advice. Also there is the common neophyte that thinks they are truly in control of making mushrooms grow when the have been doing on their own long before humans. So the neophyte will keep trying new things every day and if the don't fuck it up mushrooms will grow and they think its because of an action they did. Then that neophyte says that action worked and shares it with everyone else when it would have worked if they "Left it alone" to do its own thing and who would ever be to the wiser they may have ended up with a better yield. 

Now take a moment to think about the folks that really know their shit and how long they have been trying to help newbs not make the mistakes they did for years to get to their skillset. Then think about how many Newbs come along say "PLEASE HELP" and whine because they are being advised to not do what the Willy Myco video said. They ask for advice until someone tells them to do what they are already doing and needing help with. Well the folks that know what they are talking about have been doing this routine for a decade or more and can tell when someone wants to learn from them or would rather make the mistakes on their own. If someone doesn't want to listen to their advice they will gladly save the keyboard time for someone that does. All the experienced folk that know their shit, are just typing the same shit over and over. They will give the time to the newbs that are willing to take that risk to learn something besides Youtube Videos and "I have Read somewhere" advice.

To conclude I have had more messages today from people that know their shit, Tell me that they are done giving advice. After helping folks for years and  loving it they decide that they are over it. What does that say about the people asking for help? Oh and by the way, for the quoted statement if you would have left that awesome myc alone and did nothing different until you saw pins, ever lil finger of my would have turned into a mushroom. Also your myc would be dried out from fans and lights. You should ask the folks that gave you that advise how to fix it now. You are right about folks on this site and any other community not being on the same page. When you find a way that allows free will to have that on an Internet forum let me know please? Until that happens, I suggest finding the few that are on the same page and take their advice before they all log off until Groundhogs Day.

Good luck and best wishes to your current and future grows!


Edited by coorsmikey, 11 November 2019 - 08:47 PM.

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#51 Ghostshroom

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 10:12 PM

Don’t worry when I noticed it was wet I didn’t scratch. So no worries. I’ve had it in my closet all day no light with lid on with temps around 75 to 80 at highest. I’m just going to leave them be and see if they pin. And coorsmikey you seem really defensive. I HAVE listened I guess I just listened to the wrong people. How can you fault me for that? So like I said I have put them in the closet and I am leaving them be. And I have thanked everybody that has given me their advice over and over. And once again I appreciate everybody’s advice and knowledge excessively. It’s just a little intimidating and I think I’m not the only person getting lost in a mass spill of information. I’m not claiming to know what I’m doing. As far as other people on other posts I don’t know how superior they are acting but I never said that I knew anything which is why I was asking for help. I have followed a lot of different advice and nothing really seems to be working so I am following another piece of advice. Sitting it it in the closet and leaving alone. So if you’re saying that the Myc still looks healthy then I should still get a crop. Crossing my fingers. So I’m going to wait to see if it colonizers the substrate layers in both tubs. And I will just leave them in the same condition and hope they pin. Thank you guys for your advice and your time. Lots of good vibes and love your way.
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#52 DrepsiLocybe

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 11:59 PM

the most important thing mycology taught me was patience. if you do a good prep the tub will have everything it needs to fruit just leave it alone and wait.... ive had apes that showed pin after a month of being fully colonized. just keep an eye out for trich..
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#53 Ghostshroom

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 01:06 AM

OK thank you dreps. But these are golden teachers LOL?

#54 Nicked

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 05:56 AM

OK first things first... I'm a newb and only recently started growing. I am also a scientist and look at things quite meticulously. So after reading the last few posts I decide to go back to the beginning and make a time line. My suggestion would for you to keep a notebook going so you can start to see the timing patterns for yourself. In terms of growing mushrooms there seems to be some rather specific guidelines that people follow and recommend people to follow. Something along these lines.. Inoculate spawn and get that to 100% colonized. In your case grain and it's not clear how long it took to get to 100%. Next step is to spawn to a bulk substrate. Depending on ratios you can expect a minimum of 7 days to 100% colonization of the sub. Most of the time this is about 10 days. Can be longer and seems to go up to 3 to 4 weeks at times. You were expecting pins at this stage. Don't know where you got that info from but you should expect pins about 7 days after 100% colonization (my prediction is that you will see pins around the 15th). I'm going to go through a quick time-line of events from this thread now so that the picture is clear.
28 Oct - bags appear to be about 80%
3 Nov - APE bags in photo look 100%
5 Nov - GT mono looks about 2 to 3 days into colonizing. No initial date given by OP
6 Nov - Ask if mono is ready to fruit. Recommendations provided by looking at pictures rather than time. This was a mistake by OP by not giving date of mixing and other users by not asking before giving advice..
9 Nov - OP added light and started trying to initiate fruiting. Probably could have left a few more days minimum to allow for myc to do its thing.
10 Nov - OP indicates no growing for a week. This is a week after mixing sub and spawn. Seems like a notebook of timing would help keep track of things more objectively rather than subjectively..
11 Nov - OP expecting fruit. In terms of timing the OP shouldn't be expecting fruit for another 3 to 6 days.

A constant theme throughout this thread is people telling the OP to be more patient and not mess with stuff too much. I don't see much in terms of the OP actually taking this advice (I'm being objective and not attacking here.. Just pointing out the facts). There are a lot of ways to grow mushrooms. Pick out a tek and follow it to a T. If things are not going according to plan in terms of timing then start asking questions. As far as I can see here the OP provided inadequate information when posting and asking for advice which in turn led people to provide advice on how something looks in a photo and then the wrong advice being provided.
In defence of @coorsmikey, I feel that he has provided some extremely valuable advice and a very clear explanation. The fact that he took the time to write out a long and detailed post (and everything else he does to keep this forum alive) shows that he cares about the community and developing us newbs..
I hope thta this post gives the OP an idea of where things have gotten confusing for this grow and what the OP can take out of this in terms of learning how to go about the next grow. On another note, this is a great thread to highlight the importance of providing the right detail when asking for advice, asking the right questions when giving advice and being patient...
Peace, love and mushrooms
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#55 PJammer24

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 09:05 AM

Don’t worry when I noticed it was wet I didn’t scratch. So no worries. I’ve had it in my closet all day no light with lid on with temps around 75 to 80 at highest. I’m just going to leave them be and see if they pin. And coorsmikey you seem really defensive. I HAVE listened I guess I just listened to the wrong people. How can you fault me for that? So like I said I have put them in the closet and I am leaving them be. And I have thanked everybody that has given me their advice over and over. And once again I appreciate everybody’s advice and knowledge excessively. It’s just a little intimidating and I think I’m not the only person getting lost in a mass spill of information. I’m not claiming to know what I’m doing. As far as other people on other posts I don’t know how superior they are acting but I never said that I knew anything which is why I was asking for help. I have followed a lot of different advice and nothing really seems to be working so I am following another piece of advice. Sitting it it in the closet and leaving alone. So if you’re saying that the Myc still looks healthy then I should still get a crop. Crossing my fingers. So I’m going to wait to see if it colonizers the substrate layers in both tubs. And I will just leave them in the same condition and hope they pin. Thank you guys for your advice and your time. Lots of good vibes and love your way.

 

 

Mikey wasn't directing that at you. It just happened to get put on your thread. He is looking at a much bigger picture. It was directed to people giving advice with very little experience as much as anything else.

 

Where you are wrong is that what you have been doing IS working... You mixed your spawn and substrate right around the 1st of the month... It hasn't been long enough for them to fruit yet....Approximately 2 weeks +/- from the day you mix your substrate and spawn, you should see pinning... The APE may take a little longer, 3 or more weeks....

 

What you had been doing was working exactly as it is supposed to... You need to be patient, you haven't waited long enough yet. If you do not have pins by Monday, I will eat my shorts...


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#56 PJammer24

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 09:08 AM

OK thank you dreps. But these are golden teachers LOL?

 

Like I told you earlier... It has been approximately 12 days since you mixed your spawn and sub.... From the point you mix and start your spawn run, you are looking at approximately 2 weeks (14 days) until they start to fruit. Sometimes more, sometimes less... Just be patient until the weekend and I would be surprised if you are happy with your results.


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#57 Ghostshroom

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 05:56 PM

So update. Still NOTHING. Is this too wet????? And somebody told me that my cakes should be completely solid. My cakes are not solid at all. They are somewhat formed but I don’t think I could pick them up and put them in a bathtub LOL. It would probably fall apart. And the myc in the APE tub has gotten kind of fuzzy but not fuzzy if that makes sense? Looks like something’s happening but idk. Pics bellow. It also seems to be happening in the golden teacher tub but not as well. Is it possible that I kept my cakes too wet?

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#58 Ghostshroom

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 06:05 PM

I see everybody’s talking about being able to pick their cake up and dunk it in the bathtub if I did that my Kik would disintegrate. I mean probably not literally but I mean it would wash away. I have a feeling my cakes were too wet. Idk. And I know you seem to think it has only been two weeks since I mixed my substrate with my Spawn but I am posting things on here a couple days later than what I actually do them. And not only that it didn’t even take me a full week to fully colonized my tub. So I’m pretty sure it’s going on about three weeks with no pending and now my Mycillium is turning gray-ish blue but my cakes are extremely wet and soggy. It just doesn’t make sense.

#59 Ghostshroom

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 06:09 PM

And PJ you said if I DONT have pins by Monday you’ll eat your shorts? Lol I hope you have seasonings. I’ll tell you what if I DO end up fruiting by Monday ILL eat your shorts lol. But I really think something is wrong. From what I understand after full colonization it shouldn’t take 2 1/2 three weeks to start to fruit. But I’m just a noob so what do I know to be honest. But the thing is my cakes don’t look like everybody else’s cakes. Everybody else is talking about their cakes being so dry and formed that they can pick them up and dunk them in the tub and everything else my Cale’s aren’t like that at all. They are wet and spongy. And if I tried to pick them up it would probably fall apart. I don’t know what are you guys think?
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#60 Ghostshroom

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 06:16 PM

Here in this picture you can really see the color fluctuation from one part of the Mycillium to another. And this color change started today after I had given them both supplemental lighting.

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