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Caps won't open fully, re shut after drying... Why?


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#1 MrBeanDean

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Posted 29 October 2019 - 10:36 AM

Hello and thank you for all of your great advice and insight. Now I need some help again. 

So Im pretty sure that I do not have enough fae, theres alot of fuzzy growth. It has been like that since I harvested and dunked about five days ago from these pics. Now I've noticed some other abnormalities that I dont understand whats going on. 

The caps on my second flush havnt been opening fully as they should. In this first picture you can sorta see the cap is wavy and didnt open past the veil. I also took one and dried it and the cap closed back around the stem, above the torn veil. Why would they do this?IMG_0431.JPG

 

Now with not having enough fae, will that prevent full growth? Stopping them from progressing from the pinning stage? It kind of looks like the white fuzz is stunting my pins and causing alot of aborts. I've been opening my container more often to introduce some fresh air and it feels like im not doing it enough. Please bare with me, I know that they may be hard to see in the pictures.InkedIMG_0433_LI.jpg InkedIMG_0434_LI.jpg

 

Any advice that you could give me, I would greatly appreciate it. Also if I'm just not grasping a concept and you feel you have repeated yourself, I am sorry. My experience growing shrooms has been amazing and the world wide web kinda sucks to search for mushies, too much hate for caps. 

 



#2 coorsmikey

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Posted 29 October 2019 - 11:24 AM

The white stuff on the pins is normal, The white stuff on the larger aborts is different. Its the myc cannabalizing the mushroom or another fungi growing on it. The wimpy underdeveloped mushroom is likely caused by a dehydrated sub or lack of nutrition. I am guessing that the pics are from a Coir only sub with a low spawn ratio like 1:4 maybe? I am gonna venture to say that the coco coir was washed thoroughly during the manufacturing and packaging process. Perhaps that the sub put into fruiting condition prematurely weeks before pinning and had a significant amount to time to dry out despite surface misting? Tell me if I'm anywhere in the ballpark?


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#3 PJammer24

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Posted 29 October 2019 - 12:17 PM

That doesn't look healthy and it does look dry... More FAE is just going to make it dry out even faster...

 

I have recently seen a great clone grow mushrooms similar to that where I was like WTF!! I think what I was looking at was a reaction to a bacterial issue or possible due to my mixing two different clonse (doubtful)... Either way, I feel like there was some sort of competition going on...



#4 MrBeanDean

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Posted 29 October 2019 - 01:03 PM

I could definitely start misting it more. Ive had a feeling that I havnt been keeping it hydrated as well. For my substrate I used a quart of coco coir and I wanna say four cups of vermiculite. I also boiled some water and used that to sterilize the substrate before I added my colonized five grain jar. Then after watching some videos I want to say that I should have added more substrate but I wanted to stay relatively smaller since its my first monotub style. 

I did not use a liner for the tub, which I think I understand why they are used, so I have alot of side pins. But that doesnt bother me too much I just moved it to a larger container so the pins dont push agaisnt the sides.

And yes!! You are correct Coorsmikey, I ended up with a lot of side pins during my colonization process, im guessing cuz the sub shrunk in size and exposed the sides to open air. So when I saw that I did put it into my fruiting chamber. There was a small circular portion on the bottom that wasnt colonized fully. Now it is though, so I pulled it out before it was done however, Ive been reading that it might not be too much of a problem because it would continue to colonize the rest?



#5 PJammer24

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Posted 29 October 2019 - 01:16 PM

If it is pinning prior to being fully colonized, it is almost certainly bacterial... It really doesn't matter what conditions you have it in, the substrate should not be fruiting until fully colonized. Once it starts fruiting, vegetative growth slows or fully stops... When it starts fruiting early, there is almost certainly a contaminate.

 

My bags get the exact same conditions from the moment the spawn is mixed with the substrate until harvest... The bags on the shelf adjacent are all fruiting, temperatures are the same, and lighting is the same... They only fruit early due to a competitor that has not allowed full colonization...


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#6 Billcoz

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 04:01 AM

 

First of all, how big was the grain jar and how full was it? So it would it be like, roughly ~1:2 spawn to sub ratio? How thick is the sub, because it dries faster if it's thin? CoorsMikey mentioned putting it prematurely into fruiting conditions, that could be an issue.

 

Having a lot of side pins, or more so bottom pins that lift the sub up off the bottom of the tub allows air to contact all sides, to & bottom of the sub, drying it out faster, I have had that happen, had a bitch of a time keeping a couple tubs hydrated.

 

The fact that you put it in a bigger tub might be causing it to dry, the edges being more exposed to the air. 

 

Don't put it back into colonizing conditions or anything, but maybe seal up any filter holes in the tub and only fan it gently a couple times a day, closing it quickly to keep it from drying, or leave the filtered holes open but don't open the tub to fan for a while.


Edited by Billcoz, 30 October 2019 - 04:02 AM.

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#7 PJammer24

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 09:36 AM

 

 

First of all, how big was the grain jar and how full was it? So it would it be like, roughly ~1:2 spawn to sub ratio? How thick is the sub, because it dries faster if it's thin? CoorsMikey mentioned putting it prematurely into fruiting conditions, that could be an issue.

 

Having a lot of side pins, or more so bottom pins that lift the sub up off the bottom of the tub allows air to contact all sides, to & bottom of the sub, drying it out faster, I have had that happen, had a bitch of a time keeping a couple tubs hydrated.

 

The fact that you put it in a bigger tub might be causing it to dry, the edges being more exposed to the air. 

 

Don't put it back into colonizing conditions or anything, but maybe seal up any filter holes in the tub and only fan it gently a couple times a day, closing it quickly to keep it from drying, or leave the filtered holes open but don't open the tub to fan for a while.

 

 

 

Mikeys comment was vague and I think it confuses our rookies... You really need to define fruiting conditions when making this statement because guys and gals just starting out don't have a strong understanding... There are many different ways to skin a cat but the only way "fruiting conditions" are going to impact OP is if the additional FAE is drying it out... The light and temperatures (if people are changing temps for fruiting, I certainly dont) will not cause the problem he is having...  Subs will continue to colonize until all the nutrient source has been consumed unless its bacterial or possibly too dry for the mycelium to continue the run...

 

My bags get no FAE what so ever... They get fresh air when they are harvested but not before... I do use 5 micron bags and I would likely punch additional holes in the bags if I had .5 or .2 micron bags. My tubs, which I do less often, get a little FAE but not a whole lot... Morning and night typically. The only draw back is that occasionally some of the fruits stretch in search of O2... They will do this due to heat also but heat is never an issue in my space.... SInce I typically work with squat clones, the stretching is rarely an issue...

 

If it isnt fully colonized or wasn't prior to fruiting and the fruits that are being produced are Atypical, I maintain my position that it is bacterial.


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#8 MrBeanDean

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 09:59 AM

So I started to mist it more and I set my humidifier to run for an hour on and an hour off through out the day, I live in a desert climate. Im not going to open and fan anymore, I was probably doing that too much. I stressed it out a bit and it turned a bit blue last night and all of the colors have receded this morning. Im misting with water with added hydrogen peroxide 35%. Should I do just straight water? I wanted to use it to help kill off anything thats not suppose to be there. Now when the cake was stressed last night I noticed an area that was yellowish and greenish so definite signs of infection if im not mistaken. Those colors have receded slightly as well. Sort of hard to see in the pic but I will circle it.IMG_0457_LI (2).jpg With the smaller aborts that look like they are being consumed by itself, should I try to cut them out? Or just let it do its thing?

 

Now it seems that the caps growing now seem healthier than the first few that it produced, they are actually growing a bit  fuller.

I used a five grain jar from midwest grow kits that was about 2.5 cups. Once it was fully colonized I layed out a layer of coco verm mix then the mycelium  and then another layer of the substrate. It is very small it was about two inches and now its about and inch and a half tall. I didnt want to leave it in the smaller container because I didnt want the pins to push against the sides and fight them or damage them taking it out. So ill try and compensate for the additional open space.

 

If i'm running my humidifer more often should I not worry about opening it so often? Only to spray it and help it stay hydrated? 

Also if my cake is indeed infected..... Will the mushrooms still be safe to consume?

IMG_0456.JPG IMG_0458.JPG

 

I feel that I need to do some better calculation with the size of my substrate and my colonized jar. Doing the smaller jars and just birthing them over the perilite seems to have been easier and less of a headache when it comes to problems.


Edited by MrBeanDean, 30 October 2019 - 10:02 AM.


#9 PJammer24

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 11:03 AM

The more common contaminates aren't toxic and you should be fine. You may even get a little immune system boost if you eat the bluish green penicillin mold...  :biggrin: I typically just toss it as soon as I identify any type of mold, just because, but I didn't use to do that and the green mold never hurt anyone. As for bacteria, I would venture to say that there is some bacteria in every grow being harvested in later flushes... I would also guess that we consume these same types of bacteria every day whether from our tooth brush, pop bottle, fork, etc.. etc...

 

You will want to fan some but likely shouldn't do that as much, especially in a desert climate... It is really easy to over mist also... Too wet invites contams.... Only with experience will you find the proper balance for your local. 

 

The most recent photos appear to be healthier fruits.

 

The microclimate along the sides is better for fruiting which is why they are fruiting from the sides... This happens to pretty much everyone so don't sweat it. 


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#10 MrBeanDean

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 11:22 AM

Thankyou for your help every one.

And my fruits are definetly looking alot healthier. From over watering will I just need to watch for the cake turning blue from stress? Will there be another identifier? Besides the color of molds. It still seems dry to me, maybe I need to aquire an eye for it. Ive been misting a few times a day and watching for signs of stress.

Anyways heres some pics of the fruits I harvested this morning. Its amazing what a couple days of fixing my mistakes could do.

IMG_0460.JPG IMG_0461.JPG IMG_0463.JPG


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#11 Billcoz

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Posted 03 November 2019 - 02:43 AM

 

 

 

Well, you have a point about the need to give details for the new guys.

 

By fruiting conditions I mean taking it out of "colonization temps"(75-85F) to "fruiting temps"(70-80F) after full colonization of the substrate.

 

Also, for a mono/dubtub(like he seems to be using), for fruiting, open up the lid and FAE holes(optional), stuff polyfil in the holes or use micropore tape to give controlled FAE. That's pretty standard.


Edited by Billcoz, 03 November 2019 - 02:43 AM.





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