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Thoughts on continuous grows?


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#1 FindingGravity

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Posted 04 November 2019 - 10:12 PM

Recently I've stumbled on the thought of continuous grows and whether or not they are possible. What I mean by that is instead of putting the mycelium block on your compost pile after getting 2 or 3 good harvests, could we just continue to provide food and water and continuously harvest?

 

Or if its not something that can easily just be nourished could chunks of mycelium be broken off and placed in substrate to feed and grow again?

 

I haven't seen any threads and haven't found any research on it. I seriously doubt I'm the only person to have ever thought of this so....... can someone share knowledge or send some links? I would love to do my own research on the subject if any can be done at all.

 

Thanks for reading!

-FG-

 



#2 macgyver

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Posted 04 November 2019 - 10:56 PM

I think that after a few flushes the sub and mycelium are old and tired and the grandpa mycelium is more susceptible to foreign competitors.

 

You could break off chunks of mycelium (depending on the medium, and procedure) and re create the grow so to speak like g2g?, but eventually the mycelium would need to fulfill it's natural life cycle! back to the basics of spores and start anew.

 

I guess taking samples throughout the process, like Liquid Cultures and Agar, spore prints ETC and growing it back out is pretty much continuous growth. That's the mushrooms biological prerogative!

 

but in terms of taking one substrate and expecting fruits over and over for eternity, I am not sure.

 

Sorry, I'm drunk! :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:


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#3 stmhunter

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 12:21 AM

^


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#4 onediadem

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 12:47 AM

Well said, drunk or not Macgyver.


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#5 FunG

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 12:51 PM

Like macgyver was saying, it all comes down to cell division. Cells can only divide so many times before they cant anymore.

I keep forgetting the damn word for cell division in mycelium when it's at its max (conscience) I know I've probably grossly mispelt the word (again) but cell division I'm grain transfers can only take place up to 4x before the mycelium begins deteriorating, same would happen if you attempted "super spawning" (there is a word for what you are talking about;) )

In theory you can super spawn bulk to more bulk but you'll get less flushes due to the amount of cell division taking place and that's done using fresh (non fruited) bulk sub...

In the summer I like to bury my spent bulk in my dads garden which is loaded with composted material, I do get a 4th flush but they're smaller mushrooms... and that is essentially renewing the nutrients by burying it in the garden after that 4th flush I rarely see a 5th, maybe a few more mushrooms sometimes pop up but never a full flush.

If it's a liquid culture your running low on you can use more nutrient rich water that's been sterilized and innoc the jar to refill but again, it can only be fed so many times before cell division is maxed and it detonates.

Macgyvers post is less confusing then mine but I'm supporting what he said
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#6 newmoon

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 06:36 PM

This is possible with woodlovers, right? People add fresh wood chips to their outdoor patches, and they keep fruiting for years.

 

Some fungi experience senescence, where they eventually stop growing and lose vigor, and some don't (for example, that huge Armillaria in Oregon is thousands of years old and still growing). Except for the few commercially valuable species, this does not seem to be very well explored/documented in the scientific literature.

 

Does anyone know where the "common knowledge" about senescence in P. cubensis came from? Is there a thread where someone did careful experiments, or has everyone personally experienced senescence? I haven't, but I like to start over from spores and see where they go, and so I haven't tried keeping any single culture growing for more than half a year.

 

Anyway, with Psilocybe cubensis or similar I think it would be very hard and probably not worth the difficulty to harvest and add substrate repeatedly without contaminants showing up. If you want something long lived perhaps woodlovers are the place to go.

 



#7 FunG

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Posted 06 November 2019 - 01:33 AM

Thanks for clearing up the spelling of senescence....phew!

Yes, I have deliberately transferred (g2g) a ms jar over 4 times, the 4th transfers worked fine but when I attempted to transfer a 5th time senescence set in and even though the jars made it to full colonization (both jars and bulk spawn) the mushrooms grew small toothpick sized that looked like they were suffering from bacteria but it wasnt bacteria

I wish I could articulate myself a bit better to make my posts easier to read and understand lol

The info on senescence came from RR and was posted to shroomery, if you take a look in their archives there is a detailed post explaining senescence and p.cubensis
It's a very informative read.

I didnt believe it at first that's why I tryed it for myself and well, they weren't lying.

Edited by FunG, 06 November 2019 - 01:38 AM.


#8 RutgerHauer

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Posted 09 November 2019 - 04:55 PM

You can use your semi-composted subs to grow other 'lower level' decomposers - or maybe even mix it in with other substrates to grow cubes after sterilization/pasteurization - something completely different but also interesting if you want to get the most out of your substrates.

Edited by RutgerHauer, 09 November 2019 - 04:56 PM.





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