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Myceliated Grain TEK


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#341 Jinroh

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Posted 25 July 2020 - 06:54 PM

 

I’m currently doing an alcohol extraction using 3-month old semperviva barley (using coorsmikey’s tek). I should have the chance to test it out in a week. I’ll report back here.


Curious how this turned out if you had a chance to try it!

 

Oh yeah! I forgot about that! I wonder how that went? I would like to get a consensus on how long everyone lets their alcohol extraction process go. As usual, I plan to experiment with short and long term extraction. I suspect that Semperviva grain will lend itself very well to all forms of extraction since the cell structure isn't as tough as fully formed fruits. It won't be long before I start, another week or two max.


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#342 DonShadow

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Posted 25 July 2020 - 08:56 PM

I bottled the extract but haven’t had a large enough dose to determine potency yet. I’ll definitely report back here when I do. One thing I noticed right away is that a large volume of alcohol adheres to the kernels and thus about 30% of the material is lost in the process. Grinding the grain beforehand might be a good idea if the resulting muck can be filtered effectively.
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#343 Jinroh

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Posted 26 July 2020 - 03:04 AM

I bottled the extract but haven’t had a large enough dose to determine potency yet. I’ll definitely report back here when I do. One thing I noticed right away is that a large volume of alcohol adheres to the kernels and thus about 30% of the material is lost in the process. Grinding the grain beforehand might be a good idea if the resulting muck can be filtered effectively.

I found that the typical lab method of a thin layer of Celite 545 on a paper filter using vacuum filtration with a Buchner funnel will filter pretty much anything no matter how mucked up it is. I plan on using a rotary homogenizer to break down the grain and mycelium which will break down cell walls and increase surface area at the same time. I am sure a blender will work as well, just not as efficient. Heating the alcohol to its boiling point (140f for 200 proof) under vacuum should allow condensation of the liquid after filtering. This basically replicates the first step of how many labs extract alkaloids for spectral analysis. Of course, labs use expensive ultrasonic homogenizers and a few more expensive purification and drying steps beyond what I plan on doing. I am not a lab, I just want to make a crude extract.

 

While not related to this thread I also discovered a nifty single step dual extraction method for medicinal mushrooms. While extracting Psilocybin requires 190 proof (90%) alcohol at the minimum to avoid oxidation from water content (the water contains oxygen), medicinal mushroom extractions (example: Lions Mane) can be dual extracted in one step by using lower proof alcohol of 110 proof (60% alcohol). Typically in dual extraction the plant/fungus is soaked in alcohol for a few months then filtered, then the plant is soaked in water for a further amount of time and the water filtered and mixed with the original alcohol. Using lower proof alcohol does it all in one go since 40% of the liquid is water. You end up with all of the compounds that can be extracted by alcohol and all of the compounds that can be extracted with water at the same time. I am currently using this method with Reishi and Chaga. I plan to use it on Lions Mane once I can get it to fruit. I am having lots of problems with Lions Mane.
 


Edited by Jinroh, 26 July 2020 - 08:54 AM.

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#344 HumaDuma

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Posted 30 July 2020 - 07:15 PM

My mind is blown by this idea. Absolutely excellent work.


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#345 DonShadow

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Posted 31 July 2020 - 12:03 AM

Thanks HumaDuma! It really works.

A quick tip for those who are into microdosing with niacin (B3):

I've been powdering dried brown semperviva rice incubated for 3 months and mixing it with powdered niacin tablets, which I then use to fill "00" gel capsules. You'll have to determine your own preferred mix, but I prefer 500mg (0.5g) of powdered rice and 200mg (0.2g) niacin for a single dose (divided equally between two gel caps). My niacin tablets are 1:3 niacin to filler, so to get 100mg niacin in a gel cap, I need 300mg of powder per capsule, along with 250mg semperviva rice. This results in a capsule with 100mg (0.1g) niacin and 250mg (0.25g) psilocybin-rice. Taking two of these capsules per day es muy bueno amigos!

So here's the breakdown:

--Per 1 "00" gel capsule

- 100mg (0.1g) powdered niacin/B3. Check the bottle to determine the ratio of niacin to filler and adjust accordingly. My tablets are 1:3 so I use 300mg/capsule.
- 250mg (0.25g) powdered 3-month (or greater) semperviva brown rice.
- "00" capsules weigh 100-150mg (0.1-0.15g), so the total contents of a finished capsule will be less this amount.

The easiest way to do this is to powder a large quantity of niacin tablets and rice in the exact desired weight ratio and mix well. I used 30g niacin pills and 25g rice. The niacin dust is very irritating so don't breathe it in.

My capsules end up weighing 0.7g, which easily fits in a "00" capsule. After the first level fill, tap the capsule filler lightly on a hard surface and fill one more time.

Hope this helps!

Edited by DonShadow, 31 July 2020 - 01:09 AM.

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#346 Jinroh

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Posted 31 July 2020 - 03:06 AM

Thanks HumaDuma! It really works.

A quick tip for those who are into microdosing with niacin (B3):

I've been powdering dried brown semperviva rice incubated for 3 months and mixing it with powdered niacin tablets, which I then use to fill "00" gel capsules. You'll have to determine your own preferred mix, but I prefer 500mg (0.5g) of powdered rice and 200mg (0.2g) niacin for a single dose (divided equally between two gel caps). My niacin tablets are 1:3 niacin to filler, so to get 100mg niacin in a gel cap, I need 300mg of powder per capsule, along with 250mg semperviva rice. This results in a capsule with 100mg (0.1g) niacin and 250mg (0.25g) psilocybin-rice. Taking two of these capsules per day es muy bueno amigos!

So here's the breakdown:

--Per 1 "00" gel capsule

- 100mg (0.1g) powdered niacin/B3. Check the bottle to determine the ratio of niacin to filler and adjust accordingly. My tablets are 1:3 so I use 300mg/capsule.
- 250mg (0.25g) powdered 3-month (or greater) semperviva brown rice.
- "00" capsules weigh 100-150mg (0.1-0.15g), so the total contents of a finished capsule will be less this amount.

The easiest way to do this is to powder a large quantity of niacin tablets and rice in the exact desired weight ratio and mix well. I used 30g niacin pills and 25g rice. The niacin dust is very irritating so don't breathe it in.

My capsules end up weighing 0.7g, which easily fits in a "00" capsule. After the first level fill, tap the capsule filler lightly on a hard surface and fill one more time.

Hope this helps!

Hey Don,

I hope you don't mind me adding one bit of info. Using Vegetable Cellulose capsules will keep the Psilocybin active 10 times longer than gelatin capsules. Gelatine is very hygroscopic while veg capsules are 100 times less so. I also borrowed this idea from big pharma which is adding a very tiny amount of magnesium dioxide which is a desiccant. Just my two cents.


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#347 DonShadow

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Posted 31 July 2020 - 03:41 AM

Good call Jinroh! Thanks for pointing that out, I never would have thought of it.
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#348 Jinroh

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Posted 31 July 2020 - 05:43 AM

Good call Jinroh! Thanks for pointing that out, I never would have thought of it.

I am sure I don't have to mention this but I better just in case... if Magnesium dioxide is used, purchase the food-grade type from a supplement store, not the industrial type. LOL


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#349 Jinroh

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Posted 31 July 2020 - 05:58 AM

I don't know how many of you use 1 quart mason jars for your TEK's but I have found them to be hard to get here in the USA at the moment. I am sure it has a lot to do with more people growing and canning their own food now. I have switched from storing my dried myceliated grain from the jars to vacuum seal bags with a oxygen absorber that changes color to bright pink if contaminated. The added benefit is that the vacuum really smashes everything down so it takes up less space! Now I have freed up all of the jars that I have been using as storage for more projects.

 

Vacuum sealed.jpg


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#350 p2p

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Posted 31 July 2020 - 11:32 PM

 

 

Hey Don,

I hope you don't mind me adding one bit of info. Using Vegetable Cellulose capsules will keep the Psilocybin active 10 times longer than gelatin capsules. Gelatine is very hygroscopic while veg capsules are 100 times less so. I also borrowed this idea from big pharma which is adding a very tiny amount of magnesium dioxide which is a desiccant. Just my two cents.

 

Another point to consider is Oxygen Permeability. Vegetable Cellulose capsules allow more oxygen to penetrate than gelatin caps.

Since oxygen is bad for Psilocybin, it should be a factor to consider.

 

It may be best to store the gel caps with a desiccant, just like in many pill bottles.


Edited by p2p, 31 July 2020 - 11:33 PM.


#351 p2p

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Posted 31 July 2020 - 11:44 PM

For microdosing, do you prefer taking one dose per day, or split it into 2 doses, like one in the morning and one in the afternoon?

For example, if you are taking 250mg per day, you could take 125mg in the morning and 125mg in the afternoon.

This would extend the effect throughout the day.

 

What do you think?


 



#352 Jinroh

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Posted 01 August 2020 - 06:40 AM

 

 

 

Hey Don,

I hope you don't mind me adding one bit of info. Using Vegetable Cellulose capsules will keep the Psilocybin active 10 times longer than gelatin capsules. Gelatine is very hygroscopic while veg capsules are 100 times less so. I also borrowed this idea from big pharma which is adding a very tiny amount of magnesium dioxide which is a desiccant. Just my two cents.

 

Another point to consider is Oxygen Permeability. Vegetable Cellulose capsules allow more oxygen to penetrate than gelatin caps.

Since oxygen is bad for Psilocybin, it should be a factor to consider.

 

It may be best to store the gel caps with a desiccant, just like in many pill bottles.

 

My experiments show that using magnesium dioxide in conjunction with the veg caps is superior to gel caps alone. Of course, I also store mine under vacuum so moisture has been my biggest enemy in the very humid environment I live. I am sure the environment where the caps are stored plays a big part in the longevity of the ingredients.



#353 Jinroh

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Posted 03 August 2020 - 05:42 PM

I started my alcohol extraction project yesterday but ran out of alcohol. Right now I have a quart jar of powdered grain soaking in 190 proof. I plan on trying the PF TEK on this so I will have to source some more alcohol to finish the project. 190 proof is very expensive for my budget so what I have soaking now will have to wait until next month. Which is just fine, I am sure it probably will help the end result.



#354 Jinroh

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Posted 04 August 2020 - 08:28 AM

So what has been everyone's experience with metabolite build up in your grain? It could be that I am colonizing rather large amounts of grain in bags rather than small amounts in jars. Not sure. In some bags the liquid build-up is heavy. In other bags, it isn't. In most cases the liquid does not seem to affect the end product, it just takes a little longer to dehydrate. However, a few bags with a lot of the liquid build-up did go sour. At first, I thought it could be differences in a particular generation but out of several bags of the same generation, liquid built up in some bags and not others. It could be the grain I am using, or possible contamination being overrun by the myc? All the bags up until now have been red and white wheat. My first batch of whole oats will be ready in another month or so. So far the liquid build-up does not seem to be as much with the oats as what I see with the wheat. I figure as long as the bag does not stink, I am not going to worry about it too much.


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#355 p2p

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Posted 04 August 2020 - 10:49 PM

Did the temperature change in the room where you keep the grain?

Most of the excess liquid could be the condensation due to temperature change.

 

Also, some bags get a bit hotter than others and that could be the cause.



#356 Jinroh

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Posted 05 August 2020 - 06:25 AM

Did the temperature change in the room where you keep the grain?

Most of the excess liquid could be the condensation due to temperature change.

 

Also, some bags get a bit hotter than others and that could be the cause.

The temperature remains a steady 73f. I keep them all in a dark closet in my home. I don't think it is condensation because there are never any droplets forming on the sides of the bag above the level of the grain. I am pretty sure it is excess metabolites. When I first encountered this I was sure this type of condition meant the bag went bad. While in some cases this is true but in some cases, there is no bad odor and the liquid is easily drained off before dehydration. I was just curious if anyone else was experiencing this with Semperviva grain.

I am starting to suspect it is the grain that I am using. The whole oats while a month behind in maturity is not showing excess liquid (yet).


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#357 ElPirana

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Posted 05 August 2020 - 09:13 AM

Did the temperature change in the room where you keep the grain?
Most of the excess liquid could be the condensation due to temperature change.
 
Also, some bags get a bit hotter than others and that could be the cause.

The temperature remains a steady 73f. I keep them all in a dark closet in my home. I don't think it is condensation because there are never any droplets forming on the sides of the bag above the level of the grain. I am pretty sure it is excess metabolites. When I first encountered this I was sure this type of condition meant the bag went bad. While in some cases this is true but in some cases, there is no bad odor and the liquid is easily drained off before dehydration. I was just curious if anyone else was experiencing this with Semperviva grain.
I am starting to suspect it is the grain that I am using. The whole oats while a month behind in maturity is not showing excess liquid (yet).
I’ve had some similar issues with grain jars. I’ve just been using brown rice. No noticeable bad smells yet. Some of these are getting close to finished, maybe 4 or 4 1/2 months at this point. I’ve got some other jars that were inoculated more recently that have not exhibited the same issues. All of these are jars of brown rice, using the same LC and sitting in the same closet as each other. Not sure what to make of it myself.
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#358 Jinroh

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Posted 05 August 2020 - 10:36 AM

 

 

Did the temperature change in the room where you keep the grain?
Most of the excess liquid could be the condensation due to temperature change.
 
Also, some bags get a bit hotter than others and that could be the cause.

The temperature remains a steady 73f. I keep them all in a dark closet in my home. I don't think it is condensation because there are never any droplets forming on the sides of the bag above the level of the grain. I am pretty sure it is excess metabolites. When I first encountered this I was sure this type of condition meant the bag went bad. While in some cases this is true but in some cases, there is no bad odor and the liquid is easily drained off before dehydration. I was just curious if anyone else was experiencing this with Semperviva grain.
I am starting to suspect it is the grain that I am using. The whole oats while a month behind in maturity is not showing excess liquid (yet).
I’ve had some similar issues with grain jars. I’ve just been using brown rice. No noticeable bad smells yet. Some of these are getting close to finished, maybe 4 or 4 1/2 months at this point. I’ve got some other jars that were inoculated more recently that have not exhibited the same issues. All of these are jars of brown rice, using the same LC and sitting in the same closet as each other. Not sure what to make of it myself.

 

I have been using this TEK for 9 months now and in my experience, the liquid buildup can go one of two ways. It can have no effect at harvest time, or it can cause the grain to go rancid. In my case, the odds of them going rancid is less than ending up with a successful harvest. I have learned to grow more than I need and to expect some losses. The aggressive colonization this strain exhibits easily makes up for the losses. I just wish fruiting it was just as easy as colonizing grain with it. I am glad that it isn't just me having this issue.

My only concern is if this liquid might be oxidizing any compounds that I would want to keep active in the final product.


Edited by Jinroh, 05 August 2020 - 11:54 AM.

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#359 DonShadow

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Posted 05 August 2020 - 12:05 PM

I almost always get moisture buildup in bags, particularly in the summer when the temperature is inconsistent. It can also indicate poor drainage after hydration, or over-hydration. It does occasionally result in wet-spot bacterial contamination. I’ve never had this issue with semperviva though, only slow-growing non-actives. If you want to be really careful, only use jars and sterilize them twice, leaving 48 hrs between to allow anything that survived the first cycle to germinate.
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#360 Jinroh

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Posted 05 August 2020 - 12:21 PM

I almost always get moisture buildup in bags, particularly in the summer when the temperature is inconsistent. It can also indicate poor drainage after hydration, or over-hydration. It does occasionally result in wet-spot bacterial contamination. I’ve never had this issue with semperviva though, only slow-growing non-actives. If you want to be really careful, only use jars and sterilize them twice, leaving 48 hrs between to allow anything that survived the first cycle to germinate.

I would use jars but I am greedy. LOL I want large amounts for extraction. Overhydration of the grain could be a possible cause. Wheat seems to hold a very large amount of water. Much more than oats. That could be the reason that I am not seeing fluid buildup in the oats yet. I will know more about the oats in another month!
 


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