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Myceliated Grain TEK


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#361 ElPirana

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Posted 05 August 2020 - 12:28 PM

I have been using this TEK for 9 months now and in my experience, the liquid buildup can go one of two ways. It can have no effect at harvest time, or it can cause the grain to go rancid. In my case, the odds of them going rancid is less than ending up with a successful harvest. I have learned to grow more than I need and to expect some losses. The aggressive colonization this strain exhibits easily makes up for the losses. I just wish fruiting it was just as easy as colonizing grain with it. I am glad that it isn't just me having this issue.
My only concern is if this liquid might be oxidizing any compounds that I would want to keep active in the final product.

When my jars were at about 6 weeks, I cracked the lids and poured out the excess liquid. I did this again a little later, but there was not nearly as much liquid the second time. When I looked at one of the jars yesterday, it looks good from what I can tell, the grains are changing color, maybe blueing now. Once I finally harvest the first jars I will give some feedback on the results.

Unfortunately if this happens in bags, removing some of the liquid may not be performed as easily.
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#362 Jinroh

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Posted 05 August 2020 - 12:48 PM

 

I have been using this TEK for 9 months now and in my experience, the liquid buildup can go one of two ways. It can have no effect at harvest time, or it can cause the grain to go rancid. In my case, the odds of them going rancid is less than ending up with a successful harvest. I have learned to grow more than I need and to expect some losses. The aggressive colonization this strain exhibits easily makes up for the losses. I just wish fruiting it was just as easy as colonizing grain with it. I am glad that it isn't just me having this issue.
My only concern is if this liquid might be oxidizing any compounds that I would want to keep active in the final product.

When my jars were at about 6 weeks, I cracked the lids and poured out the excess liquid. I did this again a little later, but there was not nearly as much liquid the second time. When I looked at one of the jars yesterday, it looks good from what I can tell, the grains are changing color, maybe blueing now. Once I finally harvest the first jars I will give some feedback on the results.

Unfortunately if this happens in bags, removing some of the liquid may not be performed as easily.

 

I was thinking of removing the liquid after it builds up. Maybe with a syringe and needle. In that way, contamination could be kept to a minimum rather than slicing an opening. I might try that as an experiment. Most of the bags with liquid buildup have been harvested, but I will try it with the next one that does.
 


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#363 Tom25

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Posted 06 August 2020 - 02:40 PM

Hey Jinroh you have brought up a really good topic. Although I grow lions mane not semper, I think the issue of contaminants v metabolites is a big one in any kind of myceliated grain Tek. In the end, bacteria might give you a dose of food poisoning but I’d be worried about anything looking yellow/green, because Yellow Mold (Aspergillis) Toxins can give you cancer. It doesn’t smell so you’re relying on eyesight to pick it up, and the toxins are very heat stable.

 

If people have any high magnification pics of metabolites (I expect they would probably be similar in lions mane, semperviva or anything else grown with this Tek) it would be really helpful to know what to expect. So far my jars of LM are still pure white so I’ve not gotten anything to show right now.


Edited by Tom25, 06 August 2020 - 02:48 PM.


#364 Jinroh

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Posted 06 August 2020 - 03:38 PM

Hey Jinroh you have brought up a really good topic. Although I grow lions mane not semper, I think the issue of contaminants v metabolites is a big one in any kind of myceliated grain Tek. In the end, bacteria might give you a dose of food poisoning but I’d be worried about anything looking yellow/green, because Yellow Mold (Aspergillis) Toxins can give you cancer. It doesn’t smell so you’re relying on eyesight to pick it up, and the toxins are very heat stable.

 

If people have any high magnification pics of metabolites (I expect they would probably be similar in lions mane, semperviva or anything else grown with this Tek) it would be really helpful to know what to expect. So far my jars of LM are still pure white so I’ve not gotten anything to show right now.

How long do you let your lions mane go? This TEK ages for three to five months so color changes are dramatic. I have not seen anything yellow yet but there is a fine line with the color green. This TEK can create an almost aquamarine color that comes close to green which is oxidation. But you are right, anything besides white, brown, blue and almost black, or if it has a funky smell... I dump it. I have dumped four or five bags so far due to smell or funky colors but I don't think that is so bad out of thirty or so bags.

 

I will be using 190 proof alcohol extraction for this grain from now on so hopefully the only thing that survives the process will be the alkaloids.

 

EDIT;

 

I also suspect that color and smell depends on the grain that you use. I used white wheat and the color changes were lighter and the smell was like normal mushrooms while the red wheat I used had darker colors and has a faint smell of wheat bread when harvesting. Nothing off-putting though. I will no longer be using wheat for this TEK as the body load seems to be very high. I switched to whole oats in May and the first bags will be harvested at 90 days.

The first two images below are the youngest bags at 55 days and the last image is older at 70 days. As I mentioned previously there appears to be no significant liquid buildup using the oats (so far). The liquid that has appeared has already congealed.

 

55days.jpg 70day.jpg 71day.jpg


Edited by Jinroh, 06 August 2020 - 04:59 PM.

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#365 Tom25

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Posted 07 August 2020 - 04:17 AM

Thanks a lot Jinroh, appreciate the images. Dang! Those look like Satan’s own airsickness bags! Whatever’s in there will either put hairs on ya chest or take ten years off of the tail end of your life!
Seriously though, it looks like what I would expect metabolites to look like, smooth and kind of liquid, not granular or rough like any kind of mold.
As a noob, I’m only up to 5 weeks on my lions mane so still pretty white. But now I’ve seen yours I know what to expect!
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#366 Jinroh

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Posted 07 August 2020 - 08:32 AM

Thanks a lot Jinroh, appreciate the images. Dang! Those look like Satan’s own airsickness bags! Whatever’s in there will either put hairs on ya chest or take ten years off of the tail end of your life!
Seriously though, it looks like what I would expect metabolites to look like, smooth and kind of liquid, not granular or rough like any kind of mold.
As a noob, I’m only up to 5 weeks on my lions mane so still pretty white. But now I’ve seen yours I know what to expect!

No problem!

As I said previously, the red wheat bags looked much "worse" in the context of color and several had brown liquid accumulated on the inside surfaces of the bag at the mycelium level which darkened over time. When drained off it was almost odorless with a slight smell of baked bread and it did not seem to penetrate far into the grain itself. Maybe an inch or so. Of course, that was what I would consider a normal type result (if there is such a thing). In 90% of my bags, the coloration was only on the inside surfaces of the bag. When the clumps were broken open they were mostly white and gray on the interior.

Your previous comment on mold contamination is making me a little paranoid because at the age of four months some bags have so many different colors going on it is hard to gauge what would be good or bad (as you will find out). So smell is going to be a very important part of the analysis and since some toxins are odorless this will always be risky unless you have a lab and the knowledge to use it in order to detect toxins (which I do not).


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#367 Tom25

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Posted 07 August 2020 - 01:03 PM

That has to be a good sign that the colors are mainly on the outside of the grain- so they’re not due to a contam surviving pressure cooking thru being at the centre of the grain where it’s cooler. 

You can send off and get grains tested by hplc for the main fungal toxins, no problem, because there’s a big commercial need for this. However a) the tests are calibrated for grains with a bit of mold, not necessarily for myceliated grains with mold, and LM/semper mycelium/ metabolites I guess could skew the test? b) if you were growing semper, you might not want to send your stuff for assay in case some bright spark decides to find out why it looks so blue while he’s at it. :tongue:

 

So like you say Jinroh I reckon it’s a case of use your eyes and nose and....stay vigilant! :biggrin:


Edited by Tom25, 07 August 2020 - 01:56 PM.

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