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Myceliated Grain TEK


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#421 bezevo

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Posted 09 September 2020 - 07:07 PM

In your grain for myciliated grain tek you might want to consider  adding like 20 % Kaniwa one of the so called super grains from the Andes mountains  perhaps the highest   amounts  of  Amino acids  in particular  L-Tryptophan .the grains are tiny like poppy seeds almost . you can buy on Amazon but not cheap . i found it for about $4 a lb .

 

Kaniwa (sometimes spelled Canihua) is closely related to quinoa, and it has a nutty flavor similar to quinoa. Both are also native to the Andes Mountains in South America . Quinoa has a bitter slimy coating of sopins , that make it a mess to work with .....It's cousin

Kaniwa dose not have the slimy sopins and has slightly higher amino acid levels ........OH  and there super tasty we had them with meals when i visited the Incas Sacred Valley 

 near  Cuzco . https://www.healwith...ition-facts.php

 

20 % Kaniwa in  PF or Super cakes is rumored to increases or maximize potency especially for cubes ? or  so reported by a few growers .


Edited by bezevo, 09 September 2020 - 07:14 PM.

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#422 Jinroh

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Posted 09 September 2020 - 08:24 PM

In your grain for myciliated grain tek you might want to consider  adding like 20 % Kaniwa one of the so called super grains from the Andes mountains  perhaps the highest   amounts  of  Amino acids  in particular  L-Tryptophan .the grains are tiny like poppy seeds almost . you can buy on Amazon but not cheap . i found it for about $4 a lb .

 

Kaniwa (sometimes spelled Canihua) is closely related to quinoa, and it has a nutty flavor similar to quinoa. Both are also native to the Andes Mountains in South America . Quinoa has a bitter slimy coating of sopins , that make it a mess to work with .....It's cousin

Kaniwa dose not have the slimy sopins and has slightly higher amino acid levels ........OH  and there super tasty we had them with meals when i visited the Incas Sacred Valley 

 near  Cuzco . https://www.healwith...ition-facts.php

 

20 % Kaniwa in  PF or Super cakes is rumored to increases or maximize potency especially for cubes ? or  so reported by a few growers .

That is a good idea, I have had Kaniwa before as well as quinoa. I was thinking about finding grains high in those nutrients and mix and match them. Most grains should be able to be utilized just as long as they are sterilized well before colonization.



#423 Tom25

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Posted 10 September 2020 - 04:50 AM

I thought brown rice was da bomb for potency, why not use that Jinroh?

#424 bezevo

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Posted 10 September 2020 - 12:16 PM

Find there grain you like best ,whether its brown rice ,millet , wheat ,oats, or barley and then try adding 20% Kaniwa to possibly boost potency , no grain is higher in  Amino acids lie L-Tryptophan .as far as i can tell.


Edited by bezevo, 10 September 2020 - 05:26 PM.

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#425 Jinroh

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Posted 10 September 2020 - 01:15 PM

I thought brown rice was da bomb for potency, why not use that Jinroh?

Brown rice disintegrates when making tea and creates a very thick liquid. At least that is what it did when I tried it. I suspect the same thing would happen during a tincture extraction as well.


Edited by Jinroh, 10 September 2020 - 01:18 PM.

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#426 Tom25

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Posted 10 September 2020 - 02:08 PM

I see, thanks, makes sense. Its gonna be interesting to see what your tincture is like...will it be just pure psilocybin or will you get some of the other compounds that make semperviva the way it is and not like cubensis....I wonder.


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#427 Jinroh

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Posted 10 September 2020 - 03:57 PM

I see, thanks, makes sense. Its gonna be interesting to see what your tincture is like...will it be just pure psilocybin or will you get some of the other compounds that make semperviva the way it is and not like cubensis....I wonder.

I have a feeling that it will be mostly psilocybin. I don't have the knowledge or the equipment to do otherwise.


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#428 Jinroh

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Posted 12 September 2020 - 10:05 AM

As I mentioned higher up in this thread, I did have a decent result with extracting crystals under vacuum. But I also ended up with a lot of extra stuff that I did not want. I had no choice but to evaporate 100% of the alcohol out of the final product due to its toxicity. So my next step is using 200 proof food safe "extractahol" for a 75% evaporation reduction. Once the crystals form I plan two experiments. In one I will remove the crystals and add them to a little "clean" alcohol for storage. In the other experiment, I will remove the crystals and add to a very small amount of clean food-safe alcohol and evaporate it under vacuum until completely dry. I will do this under the negative pressure of vacuum alone with no added heat. I should end up with a much more pure result. 

 

Here is part of the documentation of my first attempt. I won't show everything since this process is not that great yet.

You can see the crystals forming in the sludge under vacuum in my original experiment below. I tested the crystals and they were very potent (although almost vomit-inducing in taste). The crystals dissolved back into the sludge after a few hours exposed to atmospheric pressure. I suspect this was due to being mixed in with all that other junk. I think the key to success is getting rid of all of that other junk that is left over with the crystals.

 

EDIT: I forgot to mention that I tested the crystals directly on my tongue and washed it down with water. I weighed out 15mg of the goop onto a spoon and scraped it onto my tongue. It came on fast. I started feeling it at the 17 minute mark. At peak it felt like 8 or 9 tablespoons of Semperviva grain. There was no body load or any side effects except for the horrid taste.

 

IMG_1285.JPG IMG_1293.JPG IMG_1294.JPG IMG_1297.JPG IMG_1299.JPG IMG_1300.JPG


Edited by Jinroh, 12 September 2020 - 11:32 AM.

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#429 Jinroh

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Posted 27 September 2020 - 03:27 PM

Another quick update. Since I had a somewhat weak response (for me) with the last whole oats tea that I made with 5 tablespoons, I decided to try the same grain with 10 tablespoons yesterday. The result was at least three times the potency of my first try with the whole oats. I have to admit this time there was a little body load and the experience much more intense, but for me still manageable (barely). I was not expecting more than double my last experience. To me, this means that the grain is not evenly distributed with the actives. I did notice there are larger clumps of pure mycelium mixed in with the grain that is difficult to break up during the prep for dehydration. I could probably roughly crush the dried material in my mortar and pestle to get more even distribution if I wanted.

 

This is just a guess but I suspect this last test had much more of the actives then my first attempt due to the uneven distribution of the mycelium. In my next attempt, I will test my theory by using just the clumps of mycelium (at a lower dosage). I have decided to wait for three or four weeks until I try another major dose again to prevent my tolerance from increasing any more than it already is.

 

I have four more bags of the same batch of oats that I plan to harvest within the next few days. I will post some photos when I do. The grain is so far only 21 days older and (to my eyes) there is a dramatic difference in colors. Much more oxidation, much darker colors for such a short amount of time.


Edited by Jinroh, 27 September 2020 - 08:03 PM.

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#430 Jinroh

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Posted 30 September 2020 - 04:42 PM

Hello all! I hope everyone is having a good week amongst all the insanity.

 

As I mentioned higher in this thread, I was going to share my next harvest. This is from the same batch of grain from my first post, the same sterilization cook, the same LC, inoculated on the same day 5/27/2020. That makes this grain 127 days old.

 

As you can see below, there is a difference in color with the older grain when compared to my first post of the 100 day old stuff, but only one bag seems to show a lot of oxidation. The reason why I am posting so many images is that three of these bags are contaminated, but look normal when viewed from outside the bag. I knew three were contaminated by the smell. Before opening, I gently squeeze each bag giving the filter patch a sniff. Any smell besides grain or fresh mushroom smell and I normally throw the bag away without opening it. For the benefit of this thread, I thought I would open the bags and document the visual contamination. I do not recommend opening a bag indoors that smell unusual since it could contaminate your environment. Actually, just don't open it period! In case anyone is curious, the smell that tipped me off on these bags was the faint odor of ammonia, although any odor besides mushrooms or grain should be a warning. I have learned not to dwell too much on what the cause could be, there are too many possibilities. I just make a note to try harder with my sterilization and other preps.

 

Here are images of the unopened bags;

Same Batch.JPG Look Normal But Not.JPG Look Normal but one isnt.JPG

 

This first contamination is a type of gray mold. Notice the "hairy" appearance with dark brownish gray matting.

Gray Mold.JPG

 

These next two are the remaining contaminated bags. Very gnarly looking, multiple colors in a "hairy" layer with bright yellow particles suspended above the surface of the mycelium.

Multiple Contams.JPG Multiple Contams2.JPG

 

Finally, the one good bag. It smells nice and in cross section has the appearance of what I have learned to expect. The outer edge of the colony is slightly damp with several shades of blues and blacks drying out towards the center of the cake. The top of the cake has a blue ring that (for this bag) seems to mark the margin of the darker layer shown in the cross section.

For the most part, this is how every healthy bag that I have grown has looked. The older the bag, the thicker the darker colored layer. Keep in mind, this is just my experience, other people might have a different one.

Healthy1.JPG Healthy.JPG

 

And finally, the (healthy) busted up colony before dehydration (it is in the dehydrator as I write this).

Before Drying.JPG

 

I also want to add, that even if one of these contam cakes had looked normal, I would never know because I would have never opened a bag that smells like piss or wet socks!


Edited by Jinroh, 30 September 2020 - 08:50 PM.

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#431 YoshiTrainer

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Posted 30 September 2020 - 08:31 PM

Thank you for the great documentation, very helpful!
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#432 DonShadow

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Posted 01 October 2020 - 09:45 AM

My opinion is that grain transfers are way too risky for this approach, particularly for those without adequate experience. I’m beginning to take more seriously some of the initial precautions voiced by a few members in the early stages of developing this method, that the risk of consuming potentially harmful toxins is real. I will likely modify the TEK to include more rigorous substrate sterilization instructions and a strong warning about the importance of proper micron filters and absolute purity of the master inoculant. Still, even if the master inoculant appears to be pure, without lab analysis there’s no way to know for certain that there isn’t an invisible contaminant in there. I’ve had multiple LCs that seemed perfectly clean and even created hundreds of clean spawn jars but later turned out to have a bacteria or mold hitching a ride.

This TEK is still very much in development; use at your own risk!

Edited by DonShadow, 01 October 2020 - 09:47 AM.

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#433 Jinroh

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Posted 01 October 2020 - 05:46 PM

My opinion is that grain transfers are way too risky for this approach, particularly for those without adequate experience. I’m beginning to take more seriously some of the initial precautions voiced by a few members in the early stages of developing this method, that the risk of consuming potentially harmful toxins is real. I will likely modify the TEK to include more rigorous substrate sterilization instructions and a strong warning about the importance of proper micron filters and absolute purity of the master inoculant. Still, even if the master inoculant appears to be pure, without lab analysis there’s no way to know for certain that there isn’t an invisible contaminant in there. I’ve had multiple LCs that seemed perfectly clean and even created hundreds of clean spawn jars but later turned out to have a bacteria or mold hitching a ride.

This TEK is still very much in development; use at your own risk!

One thing I do not think I mentioned with this TEK is as of June I ALWAYS double PC the grain. I do a 100-minute cook. I wait 48 hours for any germination and do it again. The grain gets a little mushy after the second PC but I think I will get that ironed out eventually by controlling the moisture a little better at the beginning. Those last three bad bags were not double sterilized, all the bags that I have now still colonizing are a new batch and have been done twice. I will let the thread know if any of those end up going bad. After all, it could be the LC as well!

As you said, Don, contam can be hiding anywhere and all we can do is our best! I have been consuming this grain for a year now and all my body parts still work, I have not gotten sick yet so I think my smell and visual inspection have been good enough to avoid anything serious so far. (knock on wood)

 

I also do not do grain transfers for this TEK either. I pressure cook the grain in filter bags and leave them in the sealed cooker until completely cool. I then take the sealed cooker in front of my flow cabinet and open it there and then immediately heat seal the bags while still in front of the HEPA. I then inoculate with an LC and cover the pinhole with tape. I even inoculate in front of the HEPA.

 

When I first started using bags I heat sealed them before the pressure cooker. The filter patches do not flow very much so the steam pressure ruptured the bags (what a mess). I now just loosely fold them and cover them with a ceramic dinner plate to keep them from unfolding in the heat. They still unfold a little bit but luckily the ends always remain collapsed for some reason.


Edited by Jinroh, 01 October 2020 - 06:34 PM.

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#434 coAsTal

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Posted 01 October 2020 - 07:17 PM

I have a suggestion/idea I want to bring to your attention, because I was considering it as an option for my bags when I get a chance to make them next month. Have you thought about trying to flatten the grain into a thinner layer within the bag post-PC'ing?

For the purpose of colonization speed, hydration, and ease of seeing contams I wonder if it might make the entire process easier and more efficient than a solid, thick brick?

(I originally had the thought for medicinals, but then really started thinking about using it on Semp)

Thoughts?


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#435 coorsmikey

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Posted 01 October 2020 - 07:25 PM

You can also take the flat bags and roll them up, like a fruit roll up lol. Then stand them up like a qt jar for storage and observation.


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#436 Jinroh

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Posted 01 October 2020 - 07:32 PM

You can also take the flat bags and roll them up, like a fruit roll up lol. Then stand them up like a qt jar for storage and observation.

That is a good idea!



#437 Jinroh

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Posted 01 October 2020 - 07:35 PM

I have a suggestion/idea I want to bring to your attention, because I was considering it as an option for my bags when I get a chance to make them next month. Have you thought about trying to flatten the grain into a thinner layer within the bag post-PC'ing?

For the purpose of colonization speed, hydration, and ease of seeing contams I wonder if it might make the entire process easier and more efficient than a solid, thick brick?

(I originally had the thought for medicinals, but then really started thinking about using it on Semp)

Thoughts?

I understand your thought process and I am sure that will work. However I am going for quantity as well as quality. It seems like a lot of wasted space for a thin layer of grain. Colonization would definitely be faster and more even, but you might as well use a quart jar only half full at that point. And Semperviva still requires the same amount of time no matter how thick the cake to develop potency.


Edited by Jinroh, 01 October 2020 - 07:38 PM.


#438 coorsmikey

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Posted 01 October 2020 - 07:46 PM

Well if it helps, I pc bags the normal brick you picture. Once cooled I seal them with an impulse sealer and then inoculate. My bags don’t have the silicone injection port so I just take a sharpie and make dots where I plan to stick the needle so I can see where the hole I poke into the bag is. Then tape the holes up. Once the are 25-50% colonized I break em up and give them the massage ( jars get shakes, bags get massages) and flatten them out like Coastal mentions. Roll em up like fruit roll ups then stand up sideways to finish colonization. I use them this way cuz it’s easier to observe but mostly cuz I can break them up for spawn much easier. It also prevents having soggy grain on the bottom too. I haven’t done this yet for harvesting mycelium though.
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#439 Jinroh

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Posted 01 October 2020 - 11:27 PM

Well if it helps, I pc bags the normal brick you picture. Once cooled I seal them with an impulse sealer and then inoculate. My bags don’t have the silicone injection port so I just take a sharpie and make dots where I plan to stick the needle so I can see where the hole I poke into the bag is. Then tape the holes up. Once the are 25-50% colonized I break em up and give them the massage ( jars get shakes, bags get massages) and flatten them out like Coastal mentions. Roll em up like fruit roll ups then stand up sideways to finish colonization. I use them this way cuz it’s easier to observe but mostly cuz I can break them up for spawn much easier. It also prevents having soggy grain on the bottom too. I haven’t done this yet for harvesting mycelium though.

Do you ever have issues with the grain colonizing the filter patch? That has happened to me a few times when I was experimenting with letting the bags colonize flat on their sides. The filter used on my bags is not water repellent which is a vector for contamination at that point. (I am stingy when it comes to the quality of my bags). Mine do not have SHIP's either.

 

This conversation definitely deserves experiments during my next grain bag project. I have made so many bags over the past few months that I ran out of room to store them. Next month will be a big harvest, then I can fill some more bags and try all these ideas.


Edited by Jinroh, 02 October 2020 - 01:40 AM.

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#440 coAsTal

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Posted 02 October 2020 - 08:51 PM

Nice thoughts and suggestions-- thank you coorsmikey and Jinroh :cool:

 

And Jinroh, as far as the quantity factor (or space optimization, specifically) I can't imagine it would be a problem to stack several of the flattened bags on top of each other, or even lay them together sideways like books on a shelf. So long as the filter patch isn't blocked, it shouldn't matter much?

I would honestly think it could be a better way to pack in many more bags/lbs per cubic foot if they were thin and flat vs. fat and brick'ly since you'd be using all the bag interior that's wasted when in it's typical form -- I may try it both ways myself-- 

 

Either way, great conversation --


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