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Myceliated Grain TEK


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#461 YoshiTrainer

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Posted 25 December 2020 - 04:41 PM

Great news Asura! I was curious about pseudoaztecorum fruit vs. mycelium?

#462 coAsTal

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Posted 27 December 2020 - 04:49 PM

For the record, I now know of someone that has claimed that from their direct experience that Tampanensis mycelium was active--- the people in this thread earlier in the year that were going to experiment with theirs after aging it a couple months never posted about their results, but I thought I would mention it here to add to the "anecdotal/unverified claims" section of the discussion. FWIW this guy is a trusted contributor at the place I heard the info, but it's still just one claim.


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#463 DonShadow

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Posted 27 December 2020 - 06:32 PM

That’s great to know, thanks Coastal :)

I wonder about the variables that could contribute to differing results, such as strain, incubation time etc, and also how different ratios of active compounds might be expressed in different species’ mycelium...

#464 coAsTal

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Posted 27 December 2020 - 09:32 PM

It would be a pretty big deal if it's repeatable. There are a good number of people (like me) that grow Tamps or Mexicana's as their first step away from cubes-- lots of people use them, so if it were true I would have thought someone would have tried it before.

 

FWIW I asked him if there could have been small stones in the grain that he mis-took for grain, but he insisted it was only WBS in there... but I guess we'll see. The effects were mild but definitely there, so it's an incentive to learn more.

 

I have two rye quarts of Tamps (1 var. Galindoi and 1 Atl#7) that have been colonized since July. I have been ignoring them while doing other things, letting the stones in each get old. When it comes time to break them open to spawn them, I might dry some of the grain and give it a shot in tea-- but that won't be for awhile. I was going to wait until spring next year and really age these things out.

 

Maybe I'll put some of my culture to some brown rice or barley in some half quarts myself-- though I personally wouldn't expect much potency early on in the colonization/consolidation. Who knows...


Edited by coAsTal, 27 December 2020 - 09:34 PM.

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#465 DonShadow

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Posted 28 December 2020 - 03:26 AM

I agree that testing various species to determine the potency of their mycelia is a very worthwhile undertaking. If there are more common species “hiding in plain sight”, it would be a major bonus. In the meantime, since it’s known with certainty that Ps. semperviva is active, I think it is important to orient attention toward refining and streamlining semperviva growing techniques to boost the production and distribution of spore prints. It’d be great to be able to mail spore-prints inside of little myceliated grain tek instruction booklets.

#466 coAsTal

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Posted 28 December 2020 - 08:41 AM

I wholly agree-- I am trying to get better about getting prints of my Semps so I can get them out there-- the harvest with the largest mature caps on my little cased grain tray was the one during my move when they all over-ripened and started to blacken-- I only got 2 prints from 20 or so caps because they were all too far gone by the time I got them packed, moved, unpacked, and was minimally set up to harvest :blush:

It’d be great to be able to mail spore-prints inside of little myceliated grain tek instruction booklets.

Well, unfortunately that would dive head-long into the illegal everywhere since they would be demonstrably sent for growing a psychoactives as opposed to microscopy/study of the spores. Stupid laws...

BUT-- I'm all for sharing a link online to your delightful PDF with all those I send prints to in a secure way :cool:


Edited by coAsTal, 28 December 2020 - 08:42 AM.

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#467 DonShadow

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Posted 28 December 2020 - 12:31 PM

Aw come on! Ya gotta be all sane n sensible n rational about it eh? Maybe we could just print it in invisible ink :tongue:

 

Yeah they are a trick to print. Def no criticism here, I just hope to one day feel like I'm not the only person on the planet who has prints of this mushroom lol


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#468 coAsTal

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Posted 28 December 2020 - 12:37 PM

I have a strong feeling they will grow in popularity-- and availability too. Folks like you are doing a real service to the community by organizing the collective's information exchanges into easy to follow destinations-- hi five bro :hug:


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#469 DonShadow

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Posted 28 December 2020 - 12:48 PM

Thanks brah, it's great that folks appreciate it and that the message has actually come through and allowed a few peeps to generate their own grain that really works. Thanks for helping out, every little bit counts :wub:


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#470 Tom25

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Posted 16 January 2021 - 05:22 AM

Just wondering what’s the longest you guys have run semperviva for (I know 2-3 months seems to be the standard) and how do you find the strength compares at different time points if you’ve tried them? I guess the mycelium must run out of steam sometime!


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#471 DonShadow

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Posted 12 March 2021 - 12:31 AM

Here's a little update:

 

I inoculated a 2L jar of semperviva mycelium on whole oats (with husk) and incubated for 7 months.

 

1.jpg

 

I decided to dry and preserve half the material, and used the other half to try an alcohol extraction using fresh (not dehydrated) myceliated grain.

 

Here's what the fresh material looked like before dehydrating:

 

IMG_2522.JPG

 

 

And after dehydrating:

 

158805136_3819151484842894_2853168730536909527_n.jpg

 

 

And the fresh material, mixed with 75.5% Everclear:

 

IMG_2524.JPG

 

 

And here is what the jar looks like today, ten days later:

 

160134333_3792904264135883_5684269748121356902_n.jpg

 

_____________________________________________

 

 

I also inoculated a couple of jars of whole oat groats (no husk) on 10/09/20 and incubated for almost 5 months. These were double sterilized with a 48-hr incubation period between cycles:

 

158647236_2935557636673235_3711251541079802930_n.jpg

 

 

Here's what the grain looked like before dehydration:

 

IMG_2528.JPG

 

 

And after:

 

IMG_2549.JPG

159767847_878427836269869_2983305731770561194_n.jpg

 

_____________________________________________

 

 

I plan to leave the fresh grain alcohol extraction for at least 1 month before filtering off the grain, but I haven't yet determined what might be the best filtration process. I'll powder some of the dehydrated oat groats because they make for great microdosing capsules, but I'd like to try an alcohol extraction using ground up oat groats as well. Those black ones have got to be pretty potent!

 

I'm considering purchasing a buchner vacuum funnel for the filtration process. If anyone has any suggestions for how process or filter this stuff in a way that maximizes yield and potency, I'd love to hear what you think! I'm looking at you, @Jinroh!


Edited by DonShadow, 12 March 2021 - 12:31 AM.

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#472 DonShadow

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Posted 13 March 2021 - 12:41 AM

For anyone interested, this article shows that gelatin capsules are far more effective than cellulose capsules in terms of oxygen permeability, which is what we are most concerned about when putting psilocybin in capsules for various purposes. I like to microdose a few times a week with my myceliated grain, and a few close friends and family members also benefit from this approach. As capsules tend to sit around for awhile, it's a good idea to use material that is less permeable by oxygen. Sorry to the vegans out there :(

 

https://www.manufact...consumer/143419


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#473 Jinroh

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Posted 14 March 2021 - 12:31 PM

For anyone interested, this article shows that gelatin capsules are far more effective than cellulose capsules in terms of oxygen permeability, which is what we are most concerned about when putting psilocybin in capsules for various purposes. I like to microdose a few times a week with my myceliated grain, and a few close friends and family members also benefit from this approach. As capsules tend to sit around for awhile, it's a good idea to use material that is less permeable by oxygen. Sorry to the vegans out there :(

 

https://www.manufact...consumer/143419

It seems there is never a perfect solution to most things in life. The research I have done indicates gelatin tablets are less permeable to oxygen but more permeable to moisture which contains oxygen. If what I have read is correct (and I am not saying it is) it seems the goal would be to find out which contains less oxygen? Which type capsule absorbs oxygen the quickest? The gelatin via moisture or the cellulose via direct oxygen absorption? I am just thinking out loud here.   


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#474 Jinroh

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Posted 14 March 2021 - 12:37 PM

Just wondering what’s the longest you guys have run semperviva for (I know 2-3 months seems to be the standard) and how do you find the strength compares at different time points if you’ve tried them? I guess the mycelium must run out of steam sometime!

For me, the longest has been six months. In my personal experience the sweet spot has been 4 to 4.5 months. Anything after that and I noticed no difference in potency. But that is just me. Believe it or not I still have a few bags that were inoculated June of last year and they are showing no signs of going bad. I am letting them go just to see how long they survive, I am not sure if I am going to do anything with them or not. I will post a few pics soon just for fun. 


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#475 DonShadow

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Posted 14 March 2021 - 04:57 PM

 

For anyone interested, this article shows that gelatin capsules are far more effective than cellulose capsules in terms of oxygen permeability, which is what we are most concerned about when putting psilocybin in capsules for various purposes. I like to microdose a few times a week with my myceliated grain, and a few close friends and family members also benefit from this approach. As capsules tend to sit around for awhile, it's a good idea to use material that is less permeable by oxygen. Sorry to the vegans out there :(

 

https://www.manufact...consumer/143419

It seems there is never a perfect solution to most things in life. The research I have done indicates gelatin tablets are less permeable to oxygen but more permeable to moisture which contains oxygen. If what I have read is correct (and I am not saying it is) it seems the goal would be to find out which contains less oxygen? Which type capsule absorbs oxygen the quickest? The gelatin via moisture or the cellulose via direct oxygen absorption? I am just thinking out loud here.   

 

Glad you chimed in here Jinroh :)

 

I may be wrong, but if the capsules are stored in a well-sealed jar with a desiccant pack, moisture should be less of a concern than the oxygen present in air which will enter the jar every time the lid is opened. Assuming it isn't excessively humid, the desiccant pack should take care of any moisture in the air inside the jar, no?


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#476 Moonless

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Posted 14 March 2021 - 06:25 PM

Quote directly from the article

 

"Oxygen and vapour permeability: Capsules generally represent the safest choice to meet the formulation needs of APIs with complex stability profiles. However, oxygen permeability differs significantly amongst the commercially used capsule shell ingredients.

Gelatin and pullulan hard shells for example display equivalent, low oxygen permeability, whereas first and second generation HPMC capsule shells permit oxygen transfer up to 50 times faster.3

 

Oxygen permeability is a key aspect of capsule performance, as it can negatively impact API release and bioavailability. For this reason, when oxygen-sensitive compounds are encapsulated into HPMC capsules, it is recommended to include an antioxidant in the fill formulation or to package the capsule product in an oxygen-resistant configuration, such as a blister package with aluminium foil.4

Moreover, water vapour interplays differently with the capsule types examined. Pullulan, the most hygroscopic of the excipients described here, creates a perceived tackiness when holding capsules for more than 30 seconds.

 

HPMC capsule shells have a three-fold lower average moisture content than hard pullulan and gelatin capsule shells … and are therefore thought to be the logical choice to formulate moisture-sensitive APIs. However, studies to demonstrate this proposed benefit have been unsuccessful.1,5"

 

  1. R. Gullapalli and C. Mazzitelli, “Gelatin and Non-Gelatin Capsule Dosage Forms,” Journal of Pharmaceutical Sciences 106(6), 1453–1465 (2017).
  2. S. Nagata, “Advantages to HPMC capsules: A New Generation’s Hard Capsules,” Journal of Drug Delivery Science and Technology 2(2), 35–39 (2002).

 

 

Hope this helps

 

HPMC = Cellulose


Edited by Moonless, 14 March 2021 - 06:27 PM.

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#477 Jinroh

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Posted 14 March 2021 - 07:07 PM

 

 

For anyone interested, this article shows that gelatin capsules are far more effective than cellulose capsules in terms of oxygen permeability, which is what we are most concerned about when putting psilocybin in capsules for various purposes. I like to microdose a few times a week with my myceliated grain, and a few close friends and family members also benefit from this approach. As capsules tend to sit around for awhile, it's a good idea to use material that is less permeable by oxygen. Sorry to the vegans out there :(

 

https://www.manufact...consumer/143419

It seems there is never a perfect solution to most things in life. The research I have done indicates gelatin tablets are less permeable to oxygen but more permeable to moisture which contains oxygen. If what I have read is correct (and I am not saying it is) it seems the goal would be to find out which contains less oxygen? Which type capsule absorbs oxygen the quickest? The gelatin via moisture or the cellulose via direct oxygen absorption? I am just thinking out loud here.   

 

Glad you chimed in here Jinroh :)

 

I may be wrong, but if the capsules are stored in a well-sealed jar with a desiccant pack, moisture should be less of a concern than the oxygen present in air which will enter the jar every time the lid is opened. Assuming it isn't excessively humid, the desiccant pack should take care of any moisture in the air inside the jar, no?

 

It makes sense, I often find desiccant packs in medication bottles. I have also found oxygen absorbers in vitamin bottles. How about throw one oxygen and one moisture absorber in there and cover all the bases? However, my luck there would be an adverse chemical reaction between the two. LOL


Edited by Jinroh, 14 March 2021 - 07:08 PM.

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#478 elfstone

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Posted 15 March 2021 - 09:06 PM

The following is taken from Paul Stamets patent for Neurogenesis inducing combinations of psilocybin, Lion’s Mane and niacin (section 0024):

https://patents.goog...0180021326A1/en

“Exposing mycelium grown on rice to blue and ultraviolet light in the 280-420 nanometer wavelengths, for a short window of time, lasting for a short duration of only 1-5 days, can help create and potentiate the neuroregenerative agents described herein. The intensity of light can range from 50-1,000 lux. By incubating the sterilized rice being actively colonized by the mycelium in plastic bags, which have grown out for a minimum of 1 week and up to 16 weeks, UV light exposure lights can be placed directly above and below horizontally shaped bags for maximum light exposure. The plastic bags or glass vessels can be selected for allowing these blue light wavelengths to reach the mycelium. The mycelium can undergo a phase-change in response to light stimuli into producing derivative neuroregenerative agents (it is to be expected that during this transitional period, the mycelium may contain varying mixtures of active compounds). This method and derivative improvements can potentiate the production of neuroregenerative molecules, some of which are intermediates during the melanization pathways activated by light exposure at specific wavelengths. This opens possibilities for customizing the output of specific active molecules using precise wavelengths, exposure times and intensities of light for manufacturing and potentiating production from mycelium. Lights can be pulsed and/or sequenced with varying wavelengths for exposing mycelium. The mycelium can also be subsequently agitated to cause new growth spurts, causing differentiation of hyphae with multiple nuclei per cell and hyper-expression of extracellular metabolites. Moreover, active molecules may be emitted differentially over time, allowing for windows of harvesting by washing the mycelium using cold EtOH and H2O or other solvents and processes known to the art of natural product extraction.”

The Ps. caerulescens mycelium grown on brown that proved most potent in my experiments was exposed to a 12 hour 420 to 480 nm blue light cycle. Lots of room here for experimentation.

Incidentally, grinding dried mycelium colonized brown rice in a coffee grinder does not produce easily digestible material and can cause some stomach discomfort. It is necessary to turn it into a finer flour using a mortar and pestle or some other finer grinder to assure easy digestion.
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#479 DonShadow

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Posted 18 March 2021 - 12:27 AM

Very interesting stuff, thanks a lot for sharing that! I couldn't find a citation for the claims in the patent file, but it seems worthy of further investigation. I also noticed that the patent has been abandoned, seems a bit odd...

 

I'll have to experiment with Ps. caerulescens again; I tried consuming the mycelium on a variety of substrates and using different modes of delivery, but I experienced only very subtle effects, even at fairly high doses. Maybe the use of a blue light could increase the potency. I'd like to experiment with Ps. semperviva mycelium too, but it's already potent enough that it hardly seems necessary to expose it to light.

 

Good point about the mycelium potentially causing digestive issues. I haven't experienced this with the grain created from Ps. semperviva, nor have any of my acquaintances as far as I know. This may be because the potency enables one to consume only a very small amount (particularly when microdosing), reducing the volume of fungal material ingested. Alcohol or water extraction is also very effective and bypasses this issue. I know that micronization is in general an effective approach for preparing dried mycelium, and also maximizes the bioavailability of the material. Purica (https://purica.com/) uses a jet mill to micronize their mushroom products, but as far as I know, jet mills are only suitable for large commercial applications. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_mill


Edited by DonShadow, 18 March 2021 - 01:22 AM.

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#480 DonShadow

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Posted 18 March 2021 - 05:30 PM

It looks like this is an updated version of the patent: https://patents.goog... Edward Stamets


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