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Contaminant--But What Kind?


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#1 LBowDeep

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 02:09 PM

 

 

Is there a recommended next step after doing BRF tek?  Monotub?  If so, what tek should I try?

 

 

I continue to research this topic and here is one of the popular teks for monotub that was compiled by wharfrat a few years ago.

 

https://mycotopia.ne...t-a-4-part-tek/

 

Beware that some have found that the coffee in this tek can promote contaminates and from what I have read you can just leave it out.

 

More to follow as I find them.

 

Good luck

 

 

 

The next step after PF cakes would likely be dubtubs or similar.

Monotubs are big. They yield a lot but one failure wipes out lots of spawn and substrate. Not only that but you're left with a large pile of just one variety, that's fine if your selling, host mushroom orgies, or just dont mind monotony. With dubtubs you can cheaply grow medium size crops of a range of mushroom varieties. Dubtubs also use the same size pressure cooker most people buy for doing PF cakes [large enough to hold 4 pint jars or 6 cake jars], people can spawn monos with pint jars, but most seem to prefer quarts.

 

As someone who never sells, likes variety, and sadly doesnt host mushroom orgies I doubt I'll ever do a mono.

 

 

Maybe this will help if you're a visual person (minus the heat pad, 9:38 for results).  PE prefers mono/dubtubs, expect slower colonization and fruiting times.  Also expect approximately 2x the potency compared to other cubes like GT and B+.  Good luck!

https://www.youtube....h?v=POuozQp5ohk

 

Thank you all for your help.  I'm somewhat limited on acquiring new resources at the moment but I want to follow in the spirit of what has been suggested--so I ended up experimenting yesterday when I went to dunk my PE on BRF cakes for a second flush.  

 

My first flush yielded just under 2 ounces of cracker dry fruit, the most potent I've ever had.  So I'm not experimenting out of desperation, but because I can see the PE-on-BRF moisture retention issues with my own eyes even as I harvest a more-than-expected amount.  

 

I had twelve healthy cakes.  I dunked them for 22 hours.  Placed eight back into the fruiting chamber to follow the same protocol as before.  I broke up the remaining four as gently as possible for use in a mini mono tub.  I made pasteurized substrate from verm, sphagnum moss, and gypsum, layered the substrate, then crumbled PE cakes, then substrate, then cakes, then substrate.  Set it up to colonize.  I decided against adding a casing layer.  If I have issues with the mini mono tub, I'll try a casing layer (and maybe replace peat moss with coir) using four more cakes when I dunk for the third flush.  

 

I understand that PE and APE do well on grain, which is what I'll be using the next time I grow either.  Is grain optimal for others too, such as Golden Teacher or B+?  I like to keep things as simple as I can, so using grains for a lot of my psilocybe grows is appealing.

 

Pictures of the mini mono tub experiment will be forthcoming in about a week.

I've peeked and white mycelium is visible in patches across the entire substrate surface of the mini mono tub that I set up with pasteurized substrate and four of my PE on BRF cakes crumbled.  The tek I'm following says allow 7-10 days for colonization BUT it calls for spawn on whole grain.  Also, my four BRF cakes have already been through one flush.  Will 10 days likely be sufficient for colonization considering the difference in my grow?  How do I know it's ready for fruiting?  I'll have photos posted on Saturday, so if it's a matter of knowing what to look for, the evidence will be on display in a couple of days.

 

With the eight remaining cakes, I've started dunking every other day at least, using the most sterile conditions I can manage.  No signs of contamination and it's addressing the moisture problem that misting can't touch.  Some of these PE's are getting huge, so the new problem has become supporting them so they don't break off from sheer weight.  Needless to say, I'll be pursuing a mono tub set up for those cakes as well.



#2 coorsmikey

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 05:50 PM

Consider yourself lucky if you get clean results from slightly spent cakes. Totally bypassing aseptic technique and getting good results can happen but you will probably find out soon enough thats its not a consistent and reliable way to grow. 7-10 day for colonization is a general guideline of how long it takes with optimal conditions and spawn ratio. You will know when its ready for fruiting when it shows signs of fruiting like hyphal knotting or pins. Even if you could magically force your colony to fruit before it's ready the yield will not be anywhere close to as good as it would be for a substrate that is ready. Plus when people introduce Fresh air, Light, and Evaporation oh yeah and being exposed contamination and other elements before the colony has switched gears from vegetive to fruiting mode, the colony has more time to become dehydrated or drowned by over watering. Also the change in environment can stress the colony making it more susceptible to the newly introduced air fill with contaminates. Especially with  PE and its slightly slower fruiting times, Its much safer to just leave the lid on in the same manner that it is stored during colonization until you start seeing lots of baby mushroom forming. Pins do not need fans and misting to form while in the comfy tote with a lid on, They only need all that to get big fat and mature. I hope Pjammer reads this, I made less Vague for his benefit  :tongue:


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#3 Jinroh

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 06:13 PM

Consider yourself lucky if you get clean results from slightly spent cakes. Totally bypassing aseptic technique and getting good results can happen but you will probably find out soon enough thats its not a consistent and reliable way to grow. 7-10 day for colonization is a general guideline of how long it takes with optimal conditions and spawn ratio. You will know when its ready for fruiting when it shows signs of fruiting like hyphal knotting or pins. Even if you could magically force your colony to fruit before it's ready the yield will not be anywhere close to as good as it would be for a substrate that is ready. Plus when people introduce Fresh air, Light, and Evaporation oh yeah and being exposed contamination and other elements before the colony has switched gears from vegetive to fruiting mode, the colony has more time to become dehydrated or drowned by over watering. Also the change in environment can stress the colony making it more susceptible to the newly introduced air fill with contaminates. Especially with  PE and its slightly slower fruiting times, Its much safer to just leave the lid on in the same manner that it is stored during colonization until you start seeing lots of baby mushroom forming. Pins do not need fans and misting to form while in the comfy tote with a lid on, They only need all that to get big fat and mature. I hope Pjammer reads this, I made less Vague for his benefit  :tongue:

Mikey,
Speaking of 10 day colonization time... the image below is today. Day ten of the APE, so your data is very accurate. I still see a little uncolonized sub at the bottom so it is staying sealed until I see no more sub, or I don't see any more colonization while keeping a lookout for knotting. I used a 1:1 spawn sub ratio so it is looking pretty healthy. This sub has coffee grounds in it and fairly large, the cake is about 4.5 inches thick in a 64qt tub.

What are your thoughts on dunking a large APE cake like this? Worthwhile? Risky? I plan to case it as soon as I open the tub or after I dunk if I decide to.

 

APE 10 Days.jpg


Edited by Jinroh, 31 October 2019 - 06:22 PM.

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#4 LBowDeep

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Posted 01 November 2019 - 08:21 AM

Without getting too much into it, let's say that my colonizing mini mono tub of PE has been exposed to higher than recommended temps (95 Fahrenheit) for about 15 minutes.  Is this a bad thing? Potential fallout?



#5 PJammer24

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Posted 01 November 2019 - 08:47 AM

If it was truly only 15 minutes.... I think you will likely be fine... Even if the health of  outer layers were impacted, the interior likely didn't reach those temperatures and it should rebound... My  biggest concern at increased temps is risk of contamination, though 15 minutes isnt really long enough...


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#6 LBowDeep

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Posted 01 November 2019 - 09:04 AM

If it was truly only 15 minutes.... I think you will likely be fine... Even if the health of  outer layers were impacted, the interior likely didn't reach those temperatures and it should rebound... My  biggest concern at increased temps is risk of contamination, though 15 minutes isnt really long enough...

 

Thank you for your help.  It truly was 15 minutes.  It was sitting on top of a pad that has a very low heat setting, but of course this morning somehow it was turned to 3 instead of 1.  I think that the limited amount of time exposed--plus the tub plastic and the liner would act as insulation and moderate that temperature somewhat--means I'm likely okay.  

 

Temperature extremes as relates to growing is something I know little about.  It seems the established heat threshold for mycelium is 107-109 Fahrenheit, though I'd expect negative results at temperatures lower than that, especially depending on duration of exposure.  The temperature inside my house has been dropping lately so that the PE mono tub is surrounded by sub-65 Fahrenheit air for at least half the day.  I thought I should use the pad at cooler times to keep it at mid to high 70's, but maybe that's just a bad idea.  Thoughts?



#7 LBowDeep

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Posted 03 November 2019 - 07:38 PM

I'm not even sure if this question makes sense but--

 

Will crumbling slightly spent PE-on-BRF cakes with pasteurized substrate, like I'm doing with my mini mono tub, result in a fully colonized sub that is fruiting for the "first" time when it does actually fruit?

 

Or is the slightly spent quality of the cakes carried over to the mycelium in the tub?



#8 coorsmikey

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Posted 03 November 2019 - 08:21 PM

Slightly Spent= Slightly contaminated, yes it will carry over but you don't know if it was operator error or poor genetics that caused the slightly spent cake not to fruit. Either way, It will carry over with exception of you learning what is not a best practice even if it did work once.


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#9 LBowDeep

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Posted 03 November 2019 - 10:11 PM

Slightly Spent= Slightly contaminated, yes it will carry over but you don't know if it was operator error or poor genetics that caused the slightly spent cake not to fruit. Either way, It will carry over with exception of you learning what is not a best practice even if it did work once.

 

All twelve were fruiting and uncontaminated.  Because I learned my lesson concerning PE on BRF after the first flush, I decided to use four of the cakes to start a mini mono tub when I went to dunk pre-second flush.  So I have eight cakes in the fruiting chamber right now going.  And the four I crumbled are taking over the tub substrate with a vengeance.

 

I didn't ask the correct question though.  The crumbled cakes colonizing the mono tub that have been through one flush--when the tub is fruiting, should I expect diminished yield, as if the fact that those cakes had already produced once applied to the new colonized substrate?  There's a fundamental understanding of mycelium which I lack that I'm sure makes this question easily answerable.

 

I'm not doing the mini mono tub because the cakes aren't working.  Only because I can see after the first flush the weaknesses in doing PE on BRF cakes, and I want to make the most out of the twelve hearty ones I've got.  So I thought to venture into a mono tub setup half as an experiment and half expecting to pull down some fruit alongside the cakes I have in the fruiting chamber.  



#10 LBowDeep

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 10:11 AM

When I checked on the mid-colonizing mini mono tub of PE this morning, in one specific small area next to the wispy white mycelium is crumbly white stuff.  I can't get a good picture of it without taking apart the tub and I don't want to do that until it's ready to fruit.  I know that makes identification nearly impossible, but can anyone help me with some possibilities of what it most likely is?  Again, it's texture is crumbly and fine, almost powdery, but it's as white as the wispy mycelium taking over the entire substrate.  Primary concern is whether or not that is a contaminant that merits disposal of the tub. 

 

*I got a photo although it's not great.  You can see the dull white of mycelium one the surface and next to it the powdery white.*

 

IMG_1003.jpg


Edited by LBowDeep, 07 November 2019 - 10:19 AM.


#11 Jinroh

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 10:29 AM

I wish I could help, my jumbo tub of APE is now fully colonized and it is hard to tell if I see anything that matches your photo. In my noob opinion I think it is too early to tell if that is contam or not. I would let it go and look for color changes as it cooks off over the next few weeks. It should be evident if it is contam or not when it is fruiting time.


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#12 LBowDeep

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 08:51 PM

My next grow will likely be PE, but I have no experience outside of PF tek so my question is what is you favorite tek for PE? I have tried (and will continue) digging around in the archives but I haven’t found anything specifically on this subject. If you have a link please provide it here. I believe that I have the proper equipment or can adapt or improvise so that is not a limitation; I just want to know what experienced growers have found to work and perhaps what unique pitfalls to avoid. Cheers

 

 

 

PE Tek: Take your syringe and throw it in the trash and grow a real strain. :D 

It seems that now a days, PE belongs in the trash. Most everyone I see growing it lately is growing blobs. IDK I guess folks like blobs, have you seen that mutant enigma strain thats going around. I wouldn't be surprised that is todays PE renamed. 

 

@OP Thacan, PE doesn't require a certain tek. Its a cubensis, any solid tek will work. Just wait for pins before putting into fruiting conditions. If you try and "Force fruit" you will dry it or drown it while waiting for pins.

 

 

 

 

PE Tek: Take your syringe and throw it in the trash and grow a real strain. :D 

 

 

 

PE Tek: Take your syringe and throw it in the trash and grow a real strain. :D 

It seems that now a days, PE belongs in the trash. Most everyone I see growing it lately is growing blobs. IDK I guess folks like blobs, have you seen that mutant enigma strain thats going around. I wouldn't be surprised that is todays PE renamed. 

 

@OP Thacan, PE doesn't require a certain tek. Its a cubensis, any solid tek will work. Just wait for pins before putting into fruiting conditions. If you try and "Force fruit" you will dry it or drown it while waiting for pins.

 

 

 

does anyone  have  any decent PE or APE  genetics preserved that hasnt mutated to ENIGMA BLOBS ?

 

i bet some  one still as some  decent genetics, isolated and stored away.

 

ssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhh  it might be a secret ?

 

 

My next grow will likely be PE, but I have no experience outside of PF tek so my question is what is you favorite tek for PE? I have tried (and will continue) digging around in the archives but I haven’t found anything specifically on this subject. If you have a link please provide it here. I believe that I have the proper equipment or can adapt or improvise so that is not a limitation; I just want to know what experienced growers have found to work and perhaps what unique pitfalls to avoid. Cheers

 

 

OP, here's me messing around with them:

 

https://mycotopia.ne...us-of-my-penis/

 

Everyone else, I don't grow blobs, in fact I'm still working with the PE that morphed back to one of its genetic 'parents'. Looks like a normal cube but grows slow and weighs way more than other cubes. 

 

 

Please help, I have no idea what this is next to the mycelium in the mono tub.  Is it vert? The slightly spent cakes already had a little vert infection.  Gotta be a contaminant of some kind.  I think.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

IMG_1006.jpg



#13 SacredMountain

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 11:23 PM

Let it roll.

Kick back and enjoy the viewage.

You will know later for sure.

Keep it sealed until you see pinning.


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#14 coorsmikey

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 11:42 PM

Re-read what you wrote and then re-read the advice that has been given. “Please Help?” It seem as you only want to hear what you want. Folks have offered plenty of advice to help you already. @lbowdeep
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#15 LBowDeep

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 12:05 AM

Re-read what you wrote and then re-read the advice that has been given. “Please Help?” It seem as you only want to hear what you want. Folks have offered plenty of advice to help you already. @lbowdeep

 

I'm asking "please help" for a new specific problem that just popped up this morning.  If you don't want to help then don't--but me asking for help isn't blowing off previous advice or only hearing what I want.  Again, this is a NEW problem from THIS A.M.  I searched and couldn't find anything quite like what I'm seeing in the tub and I hadn't gotten any advice about the photo except from Jinroh who's a newb.

 

Are you attacking because you had a bad day or you're upset about something? Because you've always been polite and helpful before.  I just want to make sure I'm not brewing up a dangerous contaminant.



#16 Misfit

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 12:13 AM

Well if it’s trich you’ll know in the morning
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#17 Misfit

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 12:15 AM

And vert is usually seen as brown stripes in the stems.
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#18 LBowDeep

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 11:36 AM

I have a mini mono tub of PE colonizing at the moment.  Yesterday morning I peeked and saw bright white fuzz patches in one small area of the sub, right next to some wispy mycelial growth (pictured).  This morning, 24 hours later, I haven't noticed much if any change.

 

Does anyone know what this is, or have some good ideas?

 

IMG_1006.jpg



#19 LBowDeep

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 12:11 PM

Well if it’s trich you’ll know in the morning

 

 

And vert is usually seen as brown stripes in the stems.

 

Thank you.  The contamination is unchanged from yesterday.  It has not spread or increased in volume, at least on the surface.  However, one of those puffy white splotches now has some light green in the center in a little circle, sort of on top of the white puff.



#20 Misfit

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 12:15 PM

That’s not good. Probably trich in early stage. In my experience it’s a brighter white and really noticeable after you’ve seen it once.
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