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Contaminant--But What Kind?


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#21 Misfit

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 12:17 PM

I’d isolate it from your area ASAP and keep an eye on it. Not sounding good though and it’s gonna move fast I’m assuming.
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#22 LBowDeep

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 12:22 PM

That’s not good. Probably trich in early stage. In my experience it’s a brighter white and really noticeable after you’ve seen it once.

 

 

I’d isolate it from your area ASAP and keep an eye on it. Not sounding good though and it’s gonna move fast I’m assuming.

 

I'm going to proceed with safe disposal of the project at this time.  I have access to resources for exactly what protocol to follow, but do you recommend a process for disposal in this situation?  I don't care at all about the loss or attempting a salvage, only proper isolation and disposal.



#23 PJammer24

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 12:33 PM

I am not sure that's a contamination at all... looks like myc and verm to me....

 

I see what looks like light Rhizo growth and then some sections of tomentose growth... I am guessing this is from multi-spore?

 

edit: After a 2nd look, it appears that the brilliant white, tomentose looking growth maybe trich... It looks like it might be starting to turn green near the bottom of the photo....

 

If it is green to dark green it is likely trich... When it is bluish green, I usually suspect penicillin.


Edited by PJammer24, 08 November 2019 - 12:35 PM.

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#24 Boebs

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 12:38 PM

Dig a shallow hole out back and burry.
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#25 Misfit

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 12:45 PM

I just fire mine out into the neighbors front yard. Haha.



No not really.
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#26 coorsmikey

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 01:31 PM

 

Re-read what you wrote and then re-read the advice that has been given. “Please Help?” It seem as you only want to hear what you want. Folks have offered plenty of advice to help you already. @lbowdeep

 

I'm asking "please help" for a new specific problem that just popped up this morning.  If you don't want to help then don't--but me asking for help isn't blowing off previous advice or only hearing what I want.  Again, this is a NEW problem from THIS A.M.  I searched and couldn't find anything quite like what I'm seeing in the tub and I hadn't gotten any advice about the photo except from Jinroh who's a newb.

 

Are you attacking because you had a bad day or you're upset about something? Because you've always been polite and helpful before.  I just want to make sure I'm not brewing up a dangerous contaminant.

 

 

Attacking? Huh? No one is attacking you here. You state earlier that you used spent cakes to make these tubs right? You say that they aren't contaminated but now you show pics of contamination and asking questions about it. Maybe contamination wasn't you concern back when you were asking if performance would transfer over but for those with experience it was. No need to worry about performance transferring over when contamination is inevitable. The suggestion of Re-reading or reviewing your posts and others that replied was for your benefit of learning. Perhaps like a journal works for some folks, you can look back and see where things went wrong even though you didn't have the experience to catch it as you were writing. Now you are concerned about brewing up contamination when it was suggested to you that would be doing exactly that on the last page. Thus, my comment "It seems that you only want to hear what you want." I'm sorry that you already answered your own question before you even asked the question. I even more sorry that how your grow does has no bearing on how my day goes either.

 

For the sake of others that read this, If you take a cake out and harvest mushrooms from it in a non-sterile environment the cake is no longer sterile. It is contaminated with whatever microbes that are present in the environment that it was exposed too. Just because you can't see signs of growing molds and bacteria, it doesn't mean its not contaminated. A healthy colony of mycelium will have its defenses to protect itself  and survive with these competitors and may be present without you seeing it. While once in a while, someone will use a contaminated spent cake and it will produce a few more mushrooms, It is not consistent and the odds of spawning contamination is very high. So high that I could say "Slightly Spent = Slightly Contaminated." That is why 99% of the success stories using spent substrate is out in the garden graveyard.


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#27 Jinroh

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 01:56 PM

 

Re-read what you wrote and then re-read the advice that has been given. “Please Help?” It seem as you only want to hear what you want. Folks have offered plenty of advice to help you already. @lbowdeep

 

I'm asking "please help" for a new specific problem that just popped up this morning.  If you don't want to help then don't--but me asking for help isn't blowing off previous advice or only hearing what I want.  Again, this is a NEW problem from THIS A.M.  I searched and couldn't find anything quite like what I'm seeing in the tub and I hadn't gotten any advice about the photo except from Jinroh who's a newb.

 

Are you attacking because you had a bad day or you're upset about something? Because you've always been polite and helpful before.  I just want to make sure I'm not brewing up a dangerous contaminant.

 

I did not see Mikey attacking you. He was just being honest and actually warned you about this possibility early on. I made the same mistake of trying to save a poorly performing cake with very poor results a few months ago. I learned just as you are now that doing what you did is just not worth the trouble or the risk. It is a lot of work to spend on something that will be a 50/50 shot at best. Definitely not worth it. What you can take from this is that it is no big deal to lose a tub to contam. It happens all the time. The more experience you get with your sanitation and inoculation techniques, the better your results over time. To be honest, I did not expect any success at all with my first tub. 


Edited by Jinroh, 08 November 2019 - 01:58 PM.

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#28 Jinroh

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 02:04 PM

 

 


For the sake of others that read this, If you take a cake out and harvest mushrooms from it in a non-sterile environment the cake is no longer sterile. It is contaminated with whatever microbes that are present in the environment that it was exposed too. Just because you can't see signs of growing molds and bacteria, it doesn't mean its not contaminated. A healthy colony of mycelium will have its defenses to protect itself  and survive with these competitors and may be present without you seeing it. While once in a while, someone will use a contaminated spent cake and it will produce a few more mushrooms, It is not consistent and the odds of spawning contamination is very high. So high that I could say "Slightly Spent = Slightly Contaminated." That is why 99% of the success stories using spent substrate is out in the garden graveyard.

 

Mikey, I am sure everyone appreciates your input since you are very experienced in this area. Describing myself here... sometimes even though I get good advice, I need to fail to realize exactly why that advice is valuable. I read things and see the methods and the warnings and then I try to fudge the procedure anyway since I think what I did was "good enough". I do this all the time. It is a good way to learn in my opinion. I just have to remind myself not to complain when something does not work out since I made the decision to deviate from the advice. LOL!



#29 LBowDeep

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 03:02 PM

 

 

Re-read what you wrote and then re-read the advice that has been given. “Please Help?” It seem as you only want to hear what you want. Folks have offered plenty of advice to help you already. @lbowdeep

 

I'm asking "please help" for a new specific problem that just popped up this morning.  If you don't want to help then don't--but me asking for help isn't blowing off previous advice or only hearing what I want.  Again, this is a NEW problem from THIS A.M.  I searched and couldn't find anything quite like what I'm seeing in the tub and I hadn't gotten any advice about the photo except from Jinroh who's a newb.

 

Are you attacking because you had a bad day or you're upset about something? Because you've always been polite and helpful before.  I just want to make sure I'm not brewing up a dangerous contaminant.

 

 

Attacking? Huh? No one is attacking you here. You state earlier that you used spent cakes to make these tubs right? You say that they aren't contaminated but now you show pics of contamination and asking questions about it. Maybe contamination wasn't you concern back when you were asking if performance would transfer over but for those with experience it was. No need to worry about performance transferring over when contamination is inevitable. The suggestion of Re-reading or reviewing your posts and others that replied was for your benefit of learning. Perhaps like a journal works for some folks, you can look back and see where things went wrong even though you didn't have the experience to catch it as you were writing. Now you are concerned about brewing up contamination when it was suggested to you that would be doing exactly that on the last page. Thus, my comment "It seems that you only want to hear what you want." I'm sorry that you already answered your own question before you even asked the question. I even more sorry that how your grow does has no bearing on how my day goes either.

 

For the sake of others that read this, If you take a cake out and harvest mushrooms from it in a non-sterile environment the cake is no longer sterile. It is contaminated with whatever microbes that are present in the environment that it was exposed too. Just because you can't see signs of growing molds and bacteria, it doesn't mean its not contaminated. A healthy colony of mycelium will have its defenses to protect itself  and survive with these competitors and may be present without you seeing it. While once in a while, someone will use a contaminated spent cake and it will produce a few more mushrooms, It is not consistent and the odds of spawning contamination is very high. So high that I could say "Slightly Spent = Slightly Contaminated." That is why 99% of the success stories using spent substrate is out in the garden graveyard.

 

 

Maybe you don't call it attacking, maybe it's not, but I'm aware of the risks of contamination in the mini mono tub experiment I did, and when I have been advised about it I listened.  To say that I'm only hearing what I want to hear after I post a new contamination identification question is to not even read what I posted.

 

I'M A NOOB.  I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING.  I ASKED ONE QUESTION ABOUT A PHOTO TO KNOW IF IT'S TRICH.  Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but how about going back and looking at my question and photo, and then reading your response to it.  It doesn't address the question in any way and criticizes me for asking.



#30 Jinroh

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 03:03 PM

I just fire mine out into the neighbors front yard. Haha.



No not really.

I put my contamed tubs in my neighbors garden. LOL (kidding)

 

I usually bury mine as far from my house as I can, I do not think your contam got to the point of being super airborne, but if you notice any powder floating when you dump it, be sure to take a shower and change clothing. You don't want to bring it back in with you and spread it around.


Edited by Jinroh, 08 November 2019 - 03:06 PM.

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#31 LBowDeep

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 03:06 PM

 

 

Re-read what you wrote and then re-read the advice that has been given. “Please Help?” It seem as you only want to hear what you want. Folks have offered plenty of advice to help you already. @lbowdeep

 

I'm asking "please help" for a new specific problem that just popped up this morning.  If you don't want to help then don't--but me asking for help isn't blowing off previous advice or only hearing what I want.  Again, this is a NEW problem from THIS A.M.  I searched and couldn't find anything quite like what I'm seeing in the tub and I hadn't gotten any advice about the photo except from Jinroh who's a newb.

 

Are you attacking because you had a bad day or you're upset about something? Because you've always been polite and helpful before.  I just want to make sure I'm not brewing up a dangerous contaminant.

 

I did not see Mikey attacking you. He was just being honest and actually warned you about this possibility early on. I made the same mistake of trying to save a poorly performing cake with very poor results a few months ago. I learned just as you are now that doing what you did is just not worth the trouble or the risk. It is a lot of work to spend on something that will be a 50/50 shot at best. Definitely not worth it. What you can take from this is that it is no big deal to lose a tub to contam. It happens all the time. The more experience you get with your sanitation and inoculation techniques, the better your results over time. To be honest, I did not expect any success at all with my first tub. 

 

I'm aware of the risk of contamination Jinroh!  No one's complaining.  All I did was post a picture and ask what contaminant it is so I know how to proceed.  Why it would be appropriate for someone to criticize me for asking that question is beyond me.



#32 Jinroh

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 03:12 PM

 

 

 

Re-read what you wrote and then re-read the advice that has been given. “Please Help?” It seem as you only want to hear what you want. Folks have offered plenty of advice to help you already. @lbowdeep

 

I'm asking "please help" for a new specific problem that just popped up this morning.  If you don't want to help then don't--but me asking for help isn't blowing off previous advice or only hearing what I want.  Again, this is a NEW problem from THIS A.M.  I searched and couldn't find anything quite like what I'm seeing in the tub and I hadn't gotten any advice about the photo except from Jinroh who's a newb.

 

Are you attacking because you had a bad day or you're upset about something? Because you've always been polite and helpful before.  I just want to make sure I'm not brewing up a dangerous contaminant.

 

 

Attacking? Huh? No one is attacking you here. You state earlier that you used spent cakes to make these tubs right? You say that they aren't contaminated but now you show pics of contamination and asking questions about it. Maybe contamination wasn't you concern back when you were asking if performance would transfer over but for those with experience it was. No need to worry about performance transferring over when contamination is inevitable. The suggestion of Re-reading or reviewing your posts and others that replied was for your benefit of learning. Perhaps like a journal works for some folks, you can look back and see where things went wrong even though you didn't have the experience to catch it as you were writing. Now you are concerned about brewing up contamination when it was suggested to you that would be doing exactly that on the last page. Thus, my comment "It seems that you only want to hear what you want." I'm sorry that you already answered your own question before you even asked the question. I even more sorry that how your grow does has no bearing on how my day goes either.

 

For the sake of others that read this, If you take a cake out and harvest mushrooms from it in a non-sterile environment the cake is no longer sterile. It is contaminated with whatever microbes that are present in the environment that it was exposed too. Just because you can't see signs of growing molds and bacteria, it doesn't mean its not contaminated. A healthy colony of mycelium will have its defenses to protect itself  and survive with these competitors and may be present without you seeing it. While once in a while, someone will use a contaminated spent cake and it will produce a few more mushrooms, It is not consistent and the odds of spawning contamination is very high. So high that I could say "Slightly Spent = Slightly Contaminated." That is why 99% of the success stories using spent substrate is out in the garden graveyard.

 

 

Maybe you don't call it attacking, maybe it's not, but I'm aware of the risks of contamination in the mini mono tub experiment I did, and when I have been advised about it I listened.  To say that I'm only hearing what I want to hear after I post a new contamination identification question is to not even read what I posted.

 

I'M A NOOB.  I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING.  I ASKED ONE QUESTION ABOUT A PHOTO TO KNOW IF IT'S TRICH.  Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but how about going back and looking at my question and photo, and then reading your response to it.  It doesn't address the question in any way and criticizes me for asking.

 

C'mon Low! You just said you were a noob. So am I. You have to learn to take criticism and not take offense. Mikey is a straight shooter. He does not sugar coat anything. He was just saying you should have just got rid of the cakes and start over and you wouldn't have to ask if it was contaminated in the first place. Just relax, there is a lot to be learned here but no one will want to help if they think you will get pissed off at criticism.


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#33 LBowDeep

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 03:25 PM

 

 

 

 

Re-read what you wrote and then re-read the advice that has been given. “Please Help?” It seem as you only want to hear what you want. Folks have offered plenty of advice to help you already. @lbowdeep

 

I'm asking "please help" for a new specific problem that just popped up this morning.  If you don't want to help then don't--but me asking for help isn't blowing off previous advice or only hearing what I want.  Again, this is a NEW problem from THIS A.M.  I searched and couldn't find anything quite like what I'm seeing in the tub and I hadn't gotten any advice about the photo except from Jinroh who's a newb.

 

Are you attacking because you had a bad day or you're upset about something? Because you've always been polite and helpful before.  I just want to make sure I'm not brewing up a dangerous contaminant.

 

 

Attacking? Huh? No one is attacking you here. You state earlier that you used spent cakes to make these tubs right? You say that they aren't contaminated but now you show pics of contamination and asking questions about it. Maybe contamination wasn't you concern back when you were asking if performance would transfer over but for those with experience it was. No need to worry about performance transferring over when contamination is inevitable. The suggestion of Re-reading or reviewing your posts and others that replied was for your benefit of learning. Perhaps like a journal works for some folks, you can look back and see where things went wrong even though you didn't have the experience to catch it as you were writing. Now you are concerned about brewing up contamination when it was suggested to you that would be doing exactly that on the last page. Thus, my comment "It seems that you only want to hear what you want." I'm sorry that you already answered your own question before you even asked the question. I even more sorry that how your grow does has no bearing on how my day goes either.

 

For the sake of others that read this, If you take a cake out and harvest mushrooms from it in a non-sterile environment the cake is no longer sterile. It is contaminated with whatever microbes that are present in the environment that it was exposed too. Just because you can't see signs of growing molds and bacteria, it doesn't mean its not contaminated. A healthy colony of mycelium will have its defenses to protect itself  and survive with these competitors and may be present without you seeing it. While once in a while, someone will use a contaminated spent cake and it will produce a few more mushrooms, It is not consistent and the odds of spawning contamination is very high. So high that I could say "Slightly Spent = Slightly Contaminated." That is why 99% of the success stories using spent substrate is out in the garden graveyard.

 

 

Maybe you don't call it attacking, maybe it's not, but I'm aware of the risks of contamination in the mini mono tub experiment I did, and when I have been advised about it I listened.  To say that I'm only hearing what I want to hear after I post a new contamination identification question is to not even read what I posted.

 

I'M A NOOB.  I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING.  I ASKED ONE QUESTION ABOUT A PHOTO TO KNOW IF IT'S TRICH.  Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but how about going back and looking at my question and photo, and then reading your response to it.  It doesn't address the question in any way and criticizes me for asking.

 

C'mon Low! You just said you were a noob. So am I. You have to learn to take criticism and not take offense. Mikey is a straight shooter. He does not sugar coat anything. He was just saying you should have just got rid of the cakes and start over and you wouldn't have to ask if it was contaminated in the first place. Just relax, there is a lot to be learned here but no one will want to help if they think you will get pissed off at criticism.

 

 

Criticize me for something I've done.  I asked for help identifying what a contaminant was in a photo.  He responded by telling me I only hear what I want to hear.  I don't understand how that response applies to the question that I needed help answering.

 

I said from the beginning that the mini mono tub was an experiment with materials I had on hand due to budgetary reasons, hence sphagnum moss instead of coir and four crumbled healthy cakes that had been through one flush for spawn.  The point being to prepare myself for moving up to a mono tub project in the future when budget permits.



#34 Jinroh

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 03:51 PM

 

 

 

 

 

Re-read what you wrote and then re-read the advice that has been given. “Please Help?” It seem as you only want to hear what you want. Folks have offered plenty of advice to help you already. @lbowdeep

 

I'm asking "please help" for a new specific problem that just popped up this morning.  If you don't want to help then don't--but me asking for help isn't blowing off previous advice or only hearing what I want.  Again, this is a NEW problem from THIS A.M.  I searched and couldn't find anything quite like what I'm seeing in the tub and I hadn't gotten any advice about the photo except from Jinroh who's a newb.

 

Are you attacking because you had a bad day or you're upset about something? Because you've always been polite and helpful before.  I just want to make sure I'm not brewing up a dangerous contaminant.

 

 

Attacking? Huh? No one is attacking you here. You state earlier that you used spent cakes to make these tubs right? You say that they aren't contaminated but now you show pics of contamination and asking questions about it. Maybe contamination wasn't you concern back when you were asking if performance would transfer over but for those with experience it was. No need to worry about performance transferring over when contamination is inevitable. The suggestion of Re-reading or reviewing your posts and others that replied was for your benefit of learning. Perhaps like a journal works for some folks, you can look back and see where things went wrong even though you didn't have the experience to catch it as you were writing. Now you are concerned about brewing up contamination when it was suggested to you that would be doing exactly that on the last page. Thus, my comment "It seems that you only want to hear what you want." I'm sorry that you already answered your own question before you even asked the question. I even more sorry that how your grow does has no bearing on how my day goes either.

 

For the sake of others that read this, If you take a cake out and harvest mushrooms from it in a non-sterile environment the cake is no longer sterile. It is contaminated with whatever microbes that are present in the environment that it was exposed too. Just because you can't see signs of growing molds and bacteria, it doesn't mean its not contaminated. A healthy colony of mycelium will have its defenses to protect itself  and survive with these competitors and may be present without you seeing it. While once in a while, someone will use a contaminated spent cake and it will produce a few more mushrooms, It is not consistent and the odds of spawning contamination is very high. So high that I could say "Slightly Spent = Slightly Contaminated." That is why 99% of the success stories using spent substrate is out in the garden graveyard.

 

 

Maybe you don't call it attacking, maybe it's not, but I'm aware of the risks of contamination in the mini mono tub experiment I did, and when I have been advised about it I listened.  To say that I'm only hearing what I want to hear after I post a new contamination identification question is to not even read what I posted.

 

I'M A NOOB.  I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING.  I ASKED ONE QUESTION ABOUT A PHOTO TO KNOW IF IT'S TRICH.  Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but how about going back and looking at my question and photo, and then reading your response to it.  It doesn't address the question in any way and criticizes me for asking.

 

C'mon Low! You just said you were a noob. So am I. You have to learn to take criticism and not take offense. Mikey is a straight shooter. He does not sugar coat anything. He was just saying you should have just got rid of the cakes and start over and you wouldn't have to ask if it was contaminated in the first place. Just relax, there is a lot to be learned here but no one will want to help if they think you will get pissed off at criticism.

 

 

Criticize me for something I've done.  I asked for help identifying what a contaminant was in a photo.  He responded by telling me I only hear what I want to hear.  I don't understand how that response applies to the question that I needed help answering.

 

I said from the beginning that the mini mono tub was an experiment with materials I had on hand due to budgetary reasons, hence sphagnum moss instead of coir and four crumbled healthy cakes that had been through one flush for spawn.  The point being to prepare myself for moving up to a mono tub project in the future when budget permits.

 

All Mikey was saying is that you were warned this would happen if you reused those cakes. Thats all. If you read back at the beginning he said don't even try it. You did and got contamination. At that point it did not matter what kind of contam it was. When I tried what you did when I was first starting I got both spider mold and trich. Spider mold looks sort of like myc but it spreads really fast and has a slight gray brown hue in places. Trich sometimes starts white but quickly changes green and is very aggressive and spreads fast. So if you see a spot that grows very rapidly, chances are it is some form of contam. That is why it is crucial not to expose the colonized tub/cake to outside air until fully colonized. If you take a colonized cake and crumble it up in the open air, there is a good chance you could get contam later. If you want to crumble a cake into a sub you need a flow hood or a still air box to do it in.



#35 Jinroh

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 03:56 PM

Lets just call this a misunderstanding and end this conversation. It is not prodductive and I think you understand now. I understand where you are coming from. No big deal.


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#36 macgyver

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 04:08 PM

That picture looks like early trich, saw it a few weeks back in my tub, it spreads quick and will probably start turning green in the next 12 hours :blush:

It also looks like it came in through that FAE hole sorta, small colony on the side of the tub right below it, then formed a bigger colony on the sub

That's my opinion, hopefully I'm wrong.

 

Edit: upon looking at the pic closer it's already turning green!!!


Edited by macgyver, 08 November 2019 - 04:12 PM.


#37 LBowDeep

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 05:15 PM

That picture looks like early trich, saw it a few weeks back in my tub, it spreads quick and will probably start turning green in the next 12 hours :blush:

It also looks like it came in through that FAE hole sorta, small colony on the side of the tub right below it, then formed a bigger colony on the sub

That's my opinion, hopefully I'm wrong.

 

Edit: upon looking at the pic closer it's already turning green!!!

 

That FAE hole theory makes sense to me.  As for the green you're right, it became even more prominent before I buried it in my neighbor's yard. 



#38 macgyver

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 05:19 PM

Did you leave the holes uncovered during colonization?


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#39 LBowDeep

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 05:30 PM

No. They were taped over the whole time as they are in the photo.

 

It took two weeks to show up, maybe one or two days less if I didn't notice it when it was just starting.


Edited by LBowDeep, 08 November 2019 - 05:34 PM.


#40 macgyver

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 05:33 PM

Gotcha, hard to see clear tape


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