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Contaminant--But What Kind?


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#41 LBowDeep

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Posted 09 November 2019 - 10:08 AM

I kept the mini mono tub sealed and planned on disposing of it today.  I just checked on it this morning and 90% of the signs of contamination are gone.  There's no bright white splotches or fuzz except for the patch on the plastic-- which is slightly bigger and still slightly green--and a couple tiny bits where patches on the sub used to be.  No green or other discoloration anywhere.  The mycelial growth has continued to expand since yesterday.  I'm really puzzled but I'll keep it sealed and see what happens.

 

I've been getting my biggest fruit yet on the BRF cakes I have going in the chamber.  Nothing compared to folks who actually know what they're doing but not too shabby.  Double-ended casing tek has been effective at keeping them hydrated, and I've been making crutches to support the bigger mushrooms with sterilized aluminum foil.

 

I owe an apology to those who've read or replied to this topic.  I ruined it with the back and forth later on in the thread and I'm sorry for doing that.  I'm here to learn.

 

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Edited by LBowDeep, 09 November 2019 - 10:37 AM.


#42 SacredMountain

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Posted 10 November 2019 - 10:57 AM

 

That picture looks like early trich, saw it a few weeks back in my tub, it spreads quick and will probably start turning green in the next 12 hours :blush:

It also looks like it came in through that FAE hole sorta, small colony on the side of the tub right below it, then formed a bigger colony on the sub

That's my opinion, hopefully I'm wrong.

 

Edit: upon looking at the pic closer it's already turning green!!!

 

That FAE hole theory makes sense to me.  As for the green you're right, it became even more prominent before I buried it in my neighbor's yard. 

 

Im confused :confused: :confused:

 

You buried it???

 

or you checked on it the day you planned to bury it?

 

Is the tub that was in question in the very beginning of the post contaminated today or not? Nov 10


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#43 LBowDeep

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 10:17 AM

 

 

That picture looks like early trich, saw it a few weeks back in my tub, it spreads quick and will probably start turning green in the next 12 hours :blush:

It also looks like it came in through that FAE hole sorta, small colony on the side of the tub right below it, then formed a bigger colony on the sub

That's my opinion, hopefully I'm wrong.

 

Edit: upon looking at the pic closer it's already turning green!!!

 

That FAE hole theory makes sense to me.  As for the green you're right, it became even more prominent before I buried it in my neighbor's yard. 

 

Im confused :confused: :confused:

 

You buried it???

 

or you checked on it the day you planned to bury it?

 

Is the tub that was in question in the very beginning of the post contaminated today or not? Nov 10

I did not bury it, that was my take on humor, I was going to bury it the next morning, but when I woke up and checked the signs of contamination had diminished.  As of this morning, there are no signs of contamination on the sub.  Still some on the plastic near the taped-over FAE hole that's slightly green.  It's neither bigger nor smaller than it was, and its color is unchanged.


Edited by LBowDeep, 11 November 2019 - 11:53 AM.


#44 macgyver

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 02:36 PM

I wouldn't trust it :tinfoil: There was definitely trich in the tub, not sure if mycelium can take over, especially since the trich sporulated. It's preobably green deep down, below the surface.


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#45 LBowDeep

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 04:11 PM

I wouldn't trust it :tinfoil: There was definitely trich in the tub, not sure if mycelium can take over, especially since the trich sporulated. It's preobably green deep down, below the surface.

 

I agree, there's probably trich throughout the entire sub whether it's directly visible or not.  And there's definitely still trich in the tub, at the least that visible patch on the plastic.  Curiosity is the only thing preventing its disposal at this point.   


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#46 Jinroh

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 10:16 PM

I kept the mini mono tub sealed and planned on disposing of it today.  I just checked on it this morning and 90% of the signs of contamination are gone.  There's no bright white splotches or fuzz except for the patch on the plastic-- which is slightly bigger and still slightly green--and a couple tiny bits where patches on the sub used to be.  No green or other discoloration anywhere.  The mycelial growth has continued to expand since yesterday.  I'm really puzzled but I'll keep it sealed and see what happens.

 

I've been getting my biggest fruit yet on the BRF cakes I have going in the chamber.  Nothing compared to folks who actually know what they're doing but not too shabby.  Double-ended casing tek has been effective at keeping them hydrated, and I've been making crutches to support the bigger mushrooms with sterilized aluminum foil.

 

I owe an apology to those who've read or replied to this topic.  I ruined it with the back and forth later on in the thread and I'm sorry for doing that.  I'm here to learn.

Hey Low,

in my opinion you don't owe an apology per say. Just keep in mind that the advice you get (no matter how it is delivered) is not meant as an insult... at least I hope so. Some people on here have decades of experience and have good advice to give, some have not been doing it long and can only provide a limited personal experience.

The one thing I found for sure is that you need to experiment and learn along with the advice.

I have been told that certain things were risky to do... or just plain wrong and it worked out just fine. I have also done things that I was told was correct and had poor results.

 

I prefer to read everything people say here and follow up with research. I often find conflictiong information but I will never call people out just because something I read or tried did or did not work as explained. There are too many variables for that. And don't worry about if you get contamination... that is part of learning as well. I always make at least 25% more spawn than I need for just that reason. I go into it expecting to lose some. If I don't lose any I consider it a perk.


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#47 joeya

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 10:53 PM

Going back a few layers in this thread where folks are talking about disposing of contaminated tubs, I think it's crucial to get them out of your house (or whatever building you are growing in) immediately. The bleach dunk, if done properly is a good way to do this. Burying contaminated cakes in the yard  only to get rid of contamination though, is moot. The contaminant spores came from there, burying them for that reason makes about as much sense as covering your pool to keep rainwater out of it. Now, if you're burying them in hopes of a graveyard harvest, that's a different story, but don't fool yourself to think you're destroying contaminants.


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#48 LBowDeep

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 10:59 PM

Going back a few layers in this thread where folks are talking about disposing of contaminated tubs, I think it's crucial to get them out of your house (or whatever building you are growing in) immediately. The bleach dunk, if done properly is a good way to do this. Burying contaminated cakes in the yard  only to get rid of contamination though, is moot. The contaminant spores came from there, burying them for that reason makes about as much sense as covering your pool to keep rainwater out of it. Now, if you're burying them in hopes of a graveyard harvest, that's a different story, but don't fool yourself to think you're destroying contaminants.

 

If a bleach dunk is the proper way to destroy a contaminated tub, then I'll look into that.  I don't know anything about the process.



#49 joeya

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 11:38 PM

when doing a bleach dunk, you have to be careful to do it in such a way as not to stir up spores. Pouring a bleach solution over a cake is a bad way, forcing a cake quickly under the water is another. Anything that causes the least little breeze will spread contaminant spores. What I've done with PF cakes is gently put them in a ziploc bag and seal it. Using playtex gloves, put the bag in a bucket or sink of bleach and water solution, seal side down. Open the seal and gradually ease the cake out, without any air from the bag bubbling up. Hold the cake under the surface of the solution for a while, I usually do two minutes, which may be overkill. Once the cake is out, seal the bag, then put it, and the cake, outside in a trash can. 


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#50 LBowDeep

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 09:49 AM

when doing a bleach dunk, you have to be careful to do it in such a way as not to stir up spores. Pouring a bleach solution over a cake is a bad way, forcing a cake quickly under the water is another. Anything that causes the least little breeze will spread contaminant spores. What I've done with PF cakes is gently put them in a ziploc bag and seal it. Using playtex gloves, put the bag in a bucket or sink of bleach and water solution, seal side down. Open the seal and gradually ease the cake out, without any air from the bag bubbling up. Hold the cake under the surface of the solution for a while, I usually do two minutes, which may be overkill. Once the cake is out, seal the bag, then put it, and the cake, outside in a trash can. 

 

Thank you for educating me.  My BRF cakes are actually doing great, its the mini mono tub that's got the trich problem.  Can I do a bleach dunk with the mini mono tub?



#51 joeya

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 02:13 PM

You can do a bleach dunk on anything, just be mindful of the precautions I highlighted. I hate to say it, but your PF cakes, although doing great now, will likely get the same contamination at some point, unless they are absolutely isolated from the environment where your tubs got sick.  Even with an abundance of caution, I wind up up with contaminated tubs and cakes occasionally.  I believe my initial infection came in with some improperly pasteurized coir, which infected the tubs it was used in, which infected the air, which infected the cakes eventually. With the advent of freezing temperatures, I'm hoping that I knock out the spores in my place with repeated attacks of sanitation, since the outdoor vector is now minimized. Even so, I have many tubs and a couple of cakes going that don't show any signs of contamination,despite being into multiple flushes.


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#52 LBowDeep

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 07:51 AM

You can do a bleach dunk on anything, just be mindful of the precautions I highlighted. I hate to say it, but your PF cakes, although doing great now, will likely get the same contamination at some point, unless they are absolutely isolated from the environment where your tubs got sick.  Even with an abundance of caution, I wind up up with contaminated tubs and cakes occasionally.  I believe my initial infection came in with some improperly pasteurized coir, which infected the tubs it was used in, which infected the air, which infected the cakes eventually. With the advent of freezing temperatures, I'm hoping that I knock out the spores in my place with repeated attacks of sanitation, since the outdoor vector is now minimized. Even so, I have many tubs and a couple of cakes going that don't show any signs of contamination,despite being into multiple flushes.

 

The contaminated mini mono tub stays in a different room.  With the way it's set up, there's isolation so I'm hoping to keep the trich limited to the mini mono.  

 

If it is trich.  Not saying it's not--definitely not calling the tub uncontaminated--but as of this morning there's no signs on the sub at all, and that patch on the plastic is even smaller than it was and looks dry + dead.  Either way, I disposed of the tub so that little experiment is a wrap. 


Edited by LBowDeep, 13 November 2019 - 09:57 AM.


#53 macgyver

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 12:06 PM

I had a full sized mono trich out today. Given my living situation a lot of projects are in the same room so I'm super worried at the moment. Bad stuff is out on the porch, Think ill mix a 5050 of bleach and water and gently pour it into the tub through a crack in the wrap on top. I might just throw the tub out to avoid further spore distribution.

 

I'm pretty sure my issues are coming from the way that I grow the spawn. BRF is probably not a preferred bulk growing method for a reason, So hopefully switching to grains will provide better results.

 

Also read that the spore load in the air is way less in the winter months so maybe a little bit of smooth sailing is on the way


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#54 LBowDeep

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 02:15 PM

I had a full sized mono trich out today. Given my living situation a lot of projects are in the same room so I'm super worried at the moment. Bad stuff is out on the porch, Think ill mix a 5050 of bleach and water and gently pour it into the tub through a crack in the wrap on top. I might just throw the tub out to avoid further spore distribution.

 

I'm pretty sure my issues are coming from the way that I grow the spawn. BRF is probably not a preferred bulk growing method for a reason, So hopefully switching to grains will provide better results.

 

Also read that the spore load in the air is way less in the winter months so maybe a little bit of smooth sailing is on the way

 

Sorry to hear about your tub.  When you say you're pretty sure your issues are coming from the way you grow the spawn, could you be more specific?  



#55 macgyver

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 02:19 PM

 

I had a full sized mono trich out today. Given my living situation a lot of projects are in the same room so I'm super worried at the moment. Bad stuff is out on the porch, Think ill mix a 5050 of bleach and water and gently pour it into the tub through a crack in the wrap on top. I might just throw the tub out to avoid further spore distribution.

 

I'm pretty sure my issues are coming from the way that I grow the spawn. BRF is probably not a preferred bulk growing method for a reason, So hopefully switching to grains will provide better results.

 

Also read that the spore load in the air is way less in the winter months so maybe a little bit of smooth sailing is on the way

 

Sorry to hear about your tub.  When you say you're pretty sure your issues are coming from the way you grow the spawn, could you be more specific?  

 

I do normal PF tek but then take the colonized cakes and mix them into a bigger bag of PF mix, little less BRF little more VERM. While I have had some success I just think there is a much bigger margin for error and the mix is really nutritious. I saw a tek somewhere that gave me the idea, he basically took a colonized cake and mixed it with 4 un colonized, but sterile cakes in a bag, poked some air holes and let it go. I fruited nearly a dry ounce by dunking one of these bags and fruiting it in a SGFC but in the long run, I think I made the entire process very over complicated.


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#56 Jinroh

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 03:23 PM

 

I do normal PF tek but then take the colonized cakes and mix them into a bigger bag of PF mix, little less BRF little more VERM. While I have had some success I just think there is a much bigger margin for error and the mix is really nutritious. I saw a tek somewhere that gave me the idea, he basically took a colonized cake and mixed it with 4 un colonized, but sterile cakes in a bag, poked some air holes and let it go. I fruited nearly a dry ounce by dunking one of these bags and fruiting it in a SGFC but in the long run, I think I made the entire process very over complicated.

 

Hmmm... I have tried just about every method including hydroponics and I have never seen using BRF as a bulk substrate medium... only as a spawn medium as originally used by PF. Just my experience here... but I have had more contamination issues using BRF than any other nutrient. It could be just a case of little practical experience or a combination of poor prep and sanitation on my part, or maybe just my environment is not well suited for BRF. I live deep in the woods so there is mold and moss and god knows what else floating everywhere. I even lose 25% of my agar plates to contam and I use a well-sealed SAB. I am to the point of not using BRF at all. I exclusively use grain, however, keep in mind that my contamination issues still exist but at a much lower rate. I compensate by making a lot more than I need. I am just sharing my personal experience, I am not sure why I do not lose whole tubs to trich like some people do. The grain spawn that I lose now (if it does contam) usually will trich out before I open the jar which is definitely better than losing a whole tub of sub.


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#57 macgyver

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 04:45 PM

 

 

I do normal PF tek but then take the colonized cakes and mix them into a bigger bag of PF mix, little less BRF little more VERM. While I have had some success I just think there is a much bigger margin for error and the mix is really nutritious. I saw a tek somewhere that gave me the idea, he basically took a colonized cake and mixed it with 4 un colonized, but sterile cakes in a bag, poked some air holes and let it go. I fruited nearly a dry ounce by dunking one of these bags and fruiting it in a SGFC but in the long run, I think I made the entire process very over complicated.

 

Hmmm... I have tried just about every method including hydroponics and I have never seen using BRF as a bulk substrate medium... only as a spawn medium as originally used by PF. Just my experience here... but I have had more contamination issues using BRF than any other nutrient. It could be just a case of little practical experience or a combination of poor prep and sanitation on my part, or maybe just my environment is not well suited for BRF. I live deep in the woods so there is mold and moss and god knows what else floating everywhere. I even lose 25% of my agar plates to contam and I use a well-sealed SAB. I am to the point of not using BRF at all. I exclusively use grain, however, keep in mind that my contamination issues still exist but at a much lower rate. I compensate by making a lot more than I need. I am just sharing my personal experience, I am not sure why I do not lose whole tubs to trich like some people do. The grain spawn that I lose now (if it does contam) usually will trich out before I open the jar which is definitely better than losing a whole tub of sub.

 

yeah it ended up kinda like this:

Inoc PF tek jars > Colonize OG jars for 2 and half weeks to a month > Mix a couple jars in a bag, crumbled, with about 3x the amount of sub (PF tek) > 5 days to 2 weeks for the bag to colonize > spawn to whatever (I did coir verm gypsum variations).

 

Every time I've tried a big tub like this it contams after the spawn run. First time it was 10 days, second time about 13 days. Always a big bummer because the tub looks so good then overnight, boom, mean green... This time I even had a couple pins!

 

The one time it worked really well was just spawning the contents of the bag to a SGFC, nice shrooms nice 2 flushes. Then lost to trich after the 2nd.

 

Just doing grains seems like my next step. I do like PF TEK but I just added too many of my own, uneducated additions to it. I am the type of person that usually has to learn through personal experience though.


Edited by macgyver, 13 November 2019 - 04:45 PM.

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#58 Jinroh

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 05:42 PM

 

 

 

 

yeah it ended up kinda like this:

Inoc PF tek jars > Colonize OG jars for 2 and half weeks to a month > Mix a couple jars in a bag, crumbled, with about 3x the amount of sub (PF tek) > 5 days to 2 weeks for the bag to colonize > spawn to whatever (I did coir verm gypsum variations).

 

Every time I've tried a big tub like this it contams after the spawn run. First time it was 10 days, second time about 13 days. Always a big bummer because the tub looks so good then overnight, boom, mean green... This time I even had a couple pins!

 

The one time it worked really well was just spawning the contents of the bag to a SGFC, nice shrooms nice 2 flushes. Then lost to trich after the 2nd.

 

Just doing grains seems like my next step. I do like PF TEK but I just added too many of my own, uneducated additions to it. I am the type of person that usually has to learn through personal experience though.

 

It seems we are very similar in how we each learn. I usually do not believe anything until I see it... and by that I mean until I F**** it up. LOL

But that is still a good way to learn. Similar to sticking your finger into a power outlet as a kid. You only do it once!

When I first started a few months ago I was all about BRF because I could make it myself out of rice by grinding it and it was cheap, while grain berries are expensive in my area. So I did BRF with a lot of frustration. I finally found a resonablly priced source of grain so that issue is over.

I think that is why I have seen many people use popcorn spawn because it is available everywhere and usually much cheaper than other whole grains. Of course you will also see people not liking popcorn because of difficulties they have had with it in the past. So it is all a coin toss as far as I am concerned. Whatever works for ya... use it.


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#59 LBowDeep

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 09:18 AM

I hear you about living deep in the woods Jinroh--more available and abundant contaminants plus more hospitable conditions for them--which is less pronounced on the Southern Pacific Coast where I'm at.  I get the impression that you're on the ball despite the losses to contamination though.  Have you ever tried popcorn yourself?  What type of grain specifically are you going to use?



#60 LBowDeep

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 09:32 AM

My attempt with crumbled BRF cakes as spawn in the mini mono tub differed significantly from yours, macgyver, mainly because the idea to do it in the first place came about when I was even newer at this than I am now.  I was tripping about my colonizing PE cakes at the time.  After already going through the process all the way up to fruiting, I started reading all this material about people having trouble growing PE on BRF cakes, and I saw a few sources recommend crumbling the cakes as spawn to use in a mono tub, not really as a tek but as a remedy for cakes that weren't producing.  Mine were producing and still are, but because I had twelve healthy cakes and wanted to get some mono tub experience, I gave it a shot with some of the cakes that had already produced.  I crumbled the four and used them with pasteurized sub.

 

But we both ended up in the same place.  I don't think that has much to do with the fact that my cakes were already a little spent or even the "additions" you've made.  I think it's that it's just bad practice that exposes the project to an inordinately high risk of contamination.

 

Totally worth it though.  I'm didn't have to go out of pocket one cent, and I now have experience pasteurizing sub, setting up a mono tub, identifying contamination, and disposing of a contaminated grow.


Edited by LBowDeep, 14 November 2019 - 09:34 AM.





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