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Contaminant--But What Kind?


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#61 macgyver

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 10:51 AM

Yeah I guess I've done 3 monotubs in this way, the first time I skipped the bags and literally had a substrate depth of an inch lmao. I did get some shrooms but it was pitiful and went bacterial after the first "flush". I don't regret trying these methods out though. Good learning experience. I think it's good to diversify projects too, my full sized tub from yesterday is gone but I also have a mini mono that's showing the tiniest pins! Never got to see the close up primordia formation before.

And with the mini I properly pasteurized instead of doing the lazy bucket tek!
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#62 Jinroh

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 02:29 PM

I hear you about living deep in the woods Jinroh--more available and abundant contaminants plus more hospitable conditions for them--which is less pronounced on the Southern Pacific Coast where I'm at.  I get the impression that you're on the ball despite the losses to contamination though.  Have you ever tried popcorn yourself?  What type of grain specifically are you going to use?

Yeah, I live in the forests of Appalachia. Not too bad in the winter but hot and humid in the summer. Hell, I have fungus growing on the exterior of my house that I have to deal with on a regular basis.

I have never used popcorn but have seen a lot of material on it. From what I can see it is the same as using rye or other grains. It is prepped the same way as any grain by soaking over night and boiling for 15 minutes and then drying. I was about to use popcorn until I found a source for regular dry wheat at a small bakery that grinds their own flour. They sell it to me at what they pay for it... around a buck a pound.

The only thing I have seen about popcorn is after prepping the grains get pretty big which means fewer inoculation points but I would not let that bother me. I have tried WBS a few times because of the higher amount of inoculation points but had nothing but trouble so I gave that up.


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#63 Jinroh

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 02:43 PM

Yeah I guess I've done 3 monotubs in this way, the first time I skipped the bags and literally had a substrate depth of an inch lmao. I did get some shrooms but it was pitiful and went bacterial after the first "flush". I don't regret trying these methods out though. Good learning experience. I think it's good to diversify projects too, my full sized tub from yesterday is gone but I also have a mini mono that's showing the tiniest pins! Never got to see the close up primordia formation before.

And with the mini I properly pasteurized instead of doing the lazy bucket tek!

My results improved greatly once I ditched the lazy bucket tech. Gotta PC the hell out of the sub in my opinion. Or at least I have to where I live. If the soil on my property was not 95% red clay and highly acidic, I could probably grow them in my front yard. LOL I have all types of poisonous fungus growing all over the place, just nothing edible.

I have been lucky not losing a whole tub due to contam like I said but I have a fully colonized jumbo tub of APE that has stalled for two weeks which has me a little worried but I know APE is slow anyway. But still... the longer the tub is not fruiting the more the chance goes up for contam. I just try not to mess with it too much and keep the tub closed as much as possible. I also have an aquarium of APE growing on hydroponic rocks that is at the same stage as the tub. The hydroponic grow was just an experiment to see if APE would even get to the pinning stage in that environment. I really lose nothing if those fail but it is a fun project.


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#64 LBowDeep

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 02:25 PM

 

Yeah I guess I've done 3 monotubs in this way, the first time I skipped the bags and literally had a substrate depth of an inch lmao. I did get some shrooms but it was pitiful and went bacterial after the first "flush". I don't regret trying these methods out though. Good learning experience. I think it's good to diversify projects too, my full sized tub from yesterday is gone but I also have a mini mono that's showing the tiniest pins! Never got to see the close up primordia formation before.

And with the mini I properly pasteurized instead of doing the lazy bucket tek!

My results improved greatly once I ditched the lazy bucket tech. Gotta PC the hell out of the sub in my opinion. Or at least I have to where I live. If the soil on my property was not 95% red clay and highly acidic, I could probably grow them in my front yard. LOL I have all types of poisonous fungus growing all over the place, just nothing edible.

I have been lucky not losing a whole tub due to contam like I said but I have a fully colonized jumbo tub of APE that has stalled for two weeks which has me a little worried but I know APE is slow anyway. But still... the longer the tub is not fruiting the more the chance goes up for contam. I just try not to mess with it too much and keep the tub closed as much as possible. I also have an aquarium of APE growing on hydroponic rocks that is at the same stage as the tub. The hydroponic grow was just an experiment to see if APE would even get to the pinning stage in that environment. I really lose nothing if those fail but it is a fun project.

 

 

Post follow-up on the APE experiment.  If nothing else, it's interesting.

 

"Gotta PC the hell out of the sub"--can you elaborate?  Now that you've ditched the lazy bucket tek, what's your process?



#65 Jinroh

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 03:01 PM

 

 

Post follow-up on the APE experiment.  If nothing else, it's interesting.

 

"Gotta PC the hell out of the sub"--can you elaborate?  Now that you've ditched the lazy bucket tek, what's your process?

 

I will be starting another topic on my APE experience once I see something worth posting.

 

By PCing the sub I mean the normal pressure cooker method for 90 minutes... I usually add 10 more minutes just for good measure. I use those baking bags you get at the supermarket. I made a mistake when buying them the first time. I bought the giant turkey roasting bags which turned out to be too big and wasteful. So use the standard 8 quart size. Once I have the sub prepped I dump it into a baking bag and tie it with a cable tie real tight. Then a cut a few slices in the top of the bag and cover with micro-pore tape. Then I put it into the pressure cooker and put a tea saucer on top of the bag to cover the holes in the top of the bag. Pressure cook at 15 PSI for 100 minutes. The process is pretty standard I think. I did not come up with it. I got the instructions at the below link. If you use that method and the recipe for the sub, you might want to omit the coffee grounds. Many members have said that coffee grounds is a risk of contamination.        https://mycotopia.ne...t-a-4-part-tek/


Edited by Jinroh, 15 November 2019 - 03:03 PM.

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#66 LBowDeep

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 09:32 AM

 

 

 

Post follow-up on the APE experiment.  If nothing else, it's interesting.

 

"Gotta PC the hell out of the sub"--can you elaborate?  Now that you've ditched the lazy bucket tek, what's your process?

 

I will be starting another topic on my APE experience once I see something worth posting.

 

By PCing the sub I mean the normal pressure cooker method for 90 minutes... I usually add 10 more minutes just for good measure. I use those baking bags you get at the supermarket. I made a mistake when buying them the first time. I bought the giant turkey roasting bags which turned out to be too big and wasteful. So use the standard 8 quart size. Once I have the sub prepped I dump it into a baking bag and tie it with a cable tie real tight. Then a cut a few slices in the top of the bag and cover with micro-pore tape. Then I put it into the pressure cooker and put a tea saucer on top of the bag to cover the holes in the top of the bag. Pressure cook at 15 PSI for 100 minutes. The process is pretty standard I think. I did not come up with it. I got the instructions at the below link. If you use that method and the recipe for the sub, you might want to omit the coffee grounds. Many members have said that coffee grounds is a risk of contamination.        https://mycotopia.ne...t-a-4-part-tek/

 

 

I'll be keeping my eyes peeled for the APE topic...

 

The described method isn't "your method" but I always like to ask what process is being followed because there are a lot of small differences in processes from person to person.  Those can often have no effect on the outcome or lead to negative results.  They can represent improvements too.  100 minutes is about what I do, our processes are similar.  The 8qt. baking bag tip is new to me though, so I'm glad I asked.



#67 macgyver

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 03:25 PM

I read a couple places that sterilizing the substrate is a bad thing to do because it's easier for competitors to get a foothold on a sterile substrate and that's why you want to pasteurize it instead. Have you sterilized a bulk sub before successfully?

 

For my mini tub I loaded the sub into an oven safe container and baked it at 170 for 90 minutes


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#68 Jinroh

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 03:25 PM

The described method isn't "your method" but I always like to ask what process is being followed because there are a lot of small differences in processes from person to person.  Those can often have no effect on the outcome or lead to negative results.  They can represent improvements too.  100 minutes is about what I do, our processes are similar.  The 8qt. baking bag tip is new to me though, so I'm glad I asked.

 

 

If you decide to use the baking bags, keep in mind not to over fill or wrap them up too tight. They get fragile after they have been heated up and I have had a few split up the seam when preparing to fill the tub. It was no big deal since I was opening the bag anyway, but you would not want the bag to open before you were ready. I like this method because you can let the bag sit a few days before using if you don't want to start a tub right away without worrying about contamination.


Edited by Jinroh, 16 November 2019 - 03:28 PM.

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#69 Jinroh

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 03:26 PM

.


Edited by Jinroh, 16 November 2019 - 03:28 PM.

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#70 Jinroh

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 03:39 PM

I read a couple places that sterilizing the substrate is a bad thing to do because it's easier for competitors to get a foothold on a sterile substrate and that's why you want to pasteurize it instead. Have you sterilized a bulk sub before successfully?

 

For my mini tub I loaded the sub into an oven safe container and baked it at 170 for 90 minutes

So far I have not had that problem, on the other hand I only have experience with a handful of tubs. I feel like I am jinxing myself talking about it so much. LOL


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#71 LBowDeep

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 11:16 AM

I read a couple places that sterilizing the substrate is a bad thing to do because it's easier for competitors to get a foothold on a sterile substrate and that's why you want to pasteurize it instead. Have you sterilized a bulk sub before successfully?

 

For my mini tub I loaded the sub into an oven safe container and baked it at 170 for 90 minutes

 

is the oven method of pasteurization you describe effective?  Have you had experience doing both?

 

I've read that pasteurization is preferable to sterilization.  The sources I've seen say that you're already knocking the bad agents out by getting to a temp of 170--more and you're killing or leeching things in the sub that you want.  But what do I know?.

 

I might use the oven bag tip from Jinroh and try pasteurizing with that, see how it goes. 



#72 Jinroh

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 02:31 PM

 

I read a couple places that sterilizing the substrate is a bad thing to do because it's easier for competitors to get a foothold on a sterile substrate and that's why you want to pasteurize it instead. Have you sterilized a bulk sub before successfully?

 

For my mini tub I loaded the sub into an oven safe container and baked it at 170 for 90 minutes

 

is the oven method of pasteurization you describe effective?  Have you had experience doing both?

 

I've read that pasteurization is preferable to sterilization.  The sources I've seen say that you're already knocking the bad agents out by getting to a temp of 170--more and you're killing or leeching things in the sub that you want.  But what do I know?.

 

I might use the oven bag tip from Jinroh and try pasteurizing with that, see how it goes. 

 

Give it a shot! Try all the methods if you can afford it. I plan to try the oven method eventually.


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#73 macgyver

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 04:05 PM

I've only done the oven method once, it was just enough substrate to mix a 6 quart sub tub. It pinned very nicely though and no contams are present yet! I did have a few cups of worm castings in the mix too.
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#74 Jinroh

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 04:47 PM

I've only done the oven method once, it was just enough substrate to mix a 6 quart sub tub. It pinned very nicely though and no contams are present yet! I did have a few cups of worm castings in the mix too.

I think I am going to try the oven method using the baking bags resting in a shallow pan. I should get the same results except a little less mess.


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#75 macgyver

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Posted 21 November 2019 - 12:16 PM

I've only done bucket tek and oven tek, I have a smaller PC so even if I did want to PC my bulk sub it would be really inefficient, I've had mostly failure with the bucket tek and so far 100% success with oven tek (1 out of 1 attempts) mixed a few more the other day, so we'll see if I can maintain that success rate. I know I used a less nutritious substrate so it doesnt really require too much special treatment vs. Something like Hpoo
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