Paradox
©
Fisana

Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

The Pope's remarks on Islam


  • Please log in to reply
135 replies to this topic

#41 Hippie3

Hippie3

    DUNG DEALER

  • Founders
  • 40,642 posts

Posted 20 September 2006 - 09:31 AM

ancient history.
this is today-
http://www.boston.co...?p1=MEWell_Pos5

#42 odrorir

odrorir

    Mycophiliac

  • Expired Member
  • 79 posts

Posted 20 September 2006 - 09:38 AM

The problem with being between the 2 largest culture groups in the world is that it creates destability in the area. There have been quite a afew theories that East vs West will be the next major international conflict. This isn't wodely accpeted, but the middle east has always been in this region.

Most Muslim cultures actrually accept homosexual sex as long as you are the agressor. Those that get sodomized are seen as weak and are abused by more dominant men. On the other hand sodomizing the weaker man makes you macho.

I really believe that our government despite its flaws has supported human rights in this country. It has been a long slow battle despite this. Without that influence my guess is that we would be just as brutal as the Islamic countries we are discussing, and we definatelty weree in the past.

Indonesia has the largest Islam population in the world and they don't experience much of this turmoil.

i don't see how geography changes human rights,
is a man not as free to worship as he chooses
whether his feet are on arabian soil or on texan ?

do you know what happens to gays in muslim countries ?
it's not just
a few psychopaths out breaking the law
harassing them,
they are tried for crimes and executed.
that is, if they are lucky enough to live to a trial
and aren't torn limb from limb in the streets by mobs.

abortion ?
no such thing.
any and every abortion doctor would be killed
again by state authority
not some lone loon as in western nations.

again
the difference is not hard to see
if one looks with an open eye.
christians do not pour out of church after sunday mass by the thousands
and go on a rampage, killing and burning any 'sinners' they can find.



#43 Hippie3

Hippie3

    DUNG DEALER

  • Founders
  • 40,642 posts

Posted 20 September 2006 - 09:42 AM

the bombers that killed hundreds of tourists in bali
were based out of indonesia.
name one muslim nation where homosexual contact is legal.

#44 odrorir

odrorir

    Mycophiliac

  • Expired Member
  • 79 posts

Posted 20 September 2006 - 10:30 AM

Whether or not sodomy is legal, it is accepted in most Muslim countries. Talk with anyone that has been there or is from there who is willing to be honest, they really try to avoid the subject.

Terrorism is a tool used by a lot of fundamentalist religous groups, even here in America.

the bombers that killed hundreds of tourists in bali
were based out of indonesia.
name one muslim nation where homosexual contact is legal.



#45 seemlesstech

seemlesstech

    Mycophiliac

  • Expired Member
  • 24 posts

Posted 20 September 2006 - 06:15 PM

the afghans were not
fighting the russians
for america,
that is a distortion of reality.
they were fighting for their own homes,
their land, their people.
the russians did not invade afghanistan at american behest,
we helped the afghanis evict the communist invaders,
even funding the mujahadeen themselves,
and now we see the gratitude given
at the world trade center on 9-11.

aaaaa


gimme a break ,... do you really think that america was helping the afghans fight the russians, because ,,, america really cared about the well being of the afghans,,, no i dont think so,,,, i think it plays perfectly into a sick game of stratigic mind control, and domination,,,, and now we see the effects of 20 years ago.... i wonder how the actions and words of today will sculpt the world for my childrens generation,,,


and about 9 11 and the towers,,?, werent 15 of the 19 hijackers from saudi araibia? i think so,,,,


thats not even including many of the facts that the whole thing was a set up, a plan, and there are many facts that show 911 diddnt go down as we have been led to believe..

where are the pieces of the planes,,, why did the towers collapse in such a way?

anyhow,,,, the pope is a moron,,,,,


a

#46 Hippie3

Hippie3

    DUNG DEALER

  • Founders
  • 40,642 posts

Posted 20 September 2006 - 06:23 PM

you are the one here acting like a moron.
go take a time out.

we require people to show basic respect and tolerance
and that includes refraining from incendiary remarks like the
'pope is a moron.'
such expressions are offensive to catholics and others
and serve no purpose in a debate
except to indicate that you have run out of
meaningful comments and so resort to hurling insults instead.

you can use the time off to learn some manners
as well as proper debate technique.

#47 Hippie3

Hippie3

    DUNG DEALER

  • Founders
  • 40,642 posts

Posted 20 September 2006 - 06:27 PM

Terrorism is a tool used by a lot of fundamentalist religous groups, even here in America.


plz cite 3 examples of terrorist attacks carried out here in america by fundamentalist christian religious GROUPS
[not lone psychos]

#48 Raindog

Raindog

    Mycophage

  • Expired Member
  • 117 posts

Posted 20 September 2006 - 07:01 PM

<Sits back and sips a glass of ABT12, still wondering how his vote disappeared back in '04. :eusa_sile

Seriously, what difference does it make? I try not to get caught up in these threads anymore, they raise my blood pressure and accomplish absolutely nothing.

#49 Hippie3

Hippie3

    DUNG DEALER

  • Founders
  • 40,642 posts

Posted 20 September 2006 - 07:13 PM

:lol:
it's a sport
and it's entertainment.

come bang with the gang
if you can handle intelligent educated rational debate.

this ain't fox news
one does not win by shouting over the other guy
nor by hurling insults
but by citing fact, reasoning logically
and de-constructing the opponent's argument
to expose its' flaws.

it's almost like boxing,
except it is mental.

#50 Hippie3

Hippie3

    DUNG DEALER

  • Founders
  • 40,642 posts

Posted 20 September 2006 - 07:23 PM

Whether or not sodomy is legal, it is accepted in most Muslim countries.


translation =
there are no muslim nations where it is legal,
exactly as i stated.
:lol:
all gays face serious criminal penalties for their sexual choices
just as many muslim citizens face criminal penalties for leaving islam
or teaching christianity or cutting their beards
or going outdoors unescorted by a male family member if one is female, etc.

it astonishes me how many people seem eager to
turn a blind eye to the human rights issue involved here.
they talk about ancient massacres by the medieval popes
but ignore the stoning to death of women accused of adultery
going on right now in the muslim world.

#51 chimp

chimp

    Space Lord Modulator

  • Expired Member
  • 5,911 posts

Posted 20 September 2006 - 07:33 PM

:lol:
it's a sport
and it's entertainment.

come bang with the gang
if you can handle intelligent educated rational debate.

this ain't fox news
one does not win by shouting over the other guy
nor by hurling insults
but by citing fact, reasoning logically
and de-constructing the opponent's argument
to expose its' flaws.

it's almost like boxing,
except it is mental.


It is a sport..luckily I am content for it to be a spectator sport.

My dad always said "Son it's better for you to keep your mouth shut and let people think you are stupid. Than to open it and remove all doubt"

#52 cherkropper

cherkropper

    Mycophage

  • Expired Member
  • 153 posts

Posted 20 September 2006 - 07:33 PM

plz cite 3 examples of terrorist attacks carried out here in america by indigenous fundamentalist religious GROUPS
[not lone psychos]


How bout when the church of Timothy McVeigh tried to blow up that building in Oklahoma Cit.... Naw that wasn't a church.

Oh how bout when that church of David Koresh attacked the BATF and the FBI there in Wac......Naw that wasn't an attack.

I know, how bout that time the church of old Jim Jones attacked... no they just left and killed themselves.

Dang. I can't come up with three....Sorry...

#53 Raindog

Raindog

    Mycophage

  • Expired Member
  • 117 posts

Posted 20 September 2006 - 07:36 PM

That's not what I wrote, Hippie. I didn't drink the kool-ade back in '04 and it seems even less tastefull now if that is possible.

#54 Hippie3

Hippie3

    DUNG DEALER

  • Founders
  • 40,642 posts

Posted 20 September 2006 - 07:38 PM

the only attack you mention is mc_veigh but his motive was political, not religious,
and he was more a lone attacker than any group of fundamentalists.

koresh did not attack anyone, his 'crime' was resisting arrest.

jones as you say suicided but that is more self choice than terror.

come now then,
where are these crazy christian sects
that are out there waging a lethal crusade on sinners in america ?
where are the christian death squads,
the christian car bombers ?

#55 Guest_CoyoteMesc_*

Guest_CoyoteMesc_*
  • Guest

Posted 20 September 2006 - 07:43 PM

:lol:

#56 Hippie3

Hippie3

    DUNG DEALER

  • Founders
  • 40,642 posts

Posted 20 September 2006 - 07:43 PM

That's not what I wrote, Hippie. I didn't drink the kool-ade back in '04 and it seems even less tastefull now if that is possible.



too obscure for me to follow

#57 Lefty

Lefty

    Arrogant Asshole

  • Expired Member
  • 2,333 posts

Posted 20 September 2006 - 08:25 PM

I have heard that Jonestown wasn't all it's cracked up to be. Jacked up messages broadcast over the P.A. all day, then they offed that senator. Sounds rough.
Oh yeah, I've said this before, but this is a forum you really have to pay attention & beware you are in.
Jimmy makes badass Kool-Aide. The Jonestown cooler (Christ that was a bad joke, can't believe I wrote it).

#58 Hippie3

Hippie3

    DUNG DEALER

  • Founders
  • 40,642 posts

Posted 21 September 2006 - 04:53 AM

...Little less than 100 years before that quote was made, there was a city in France where roughly 40% of the population was Cathars, the rest where good catholics. The pope ordered to burn down that city. When people informed him that over half of the inhabitants where catholics the pope commented: burn it all down anyway, God will seperate the good from the bad above.



get your facts straight please,
it was NOT the pope that uttered the
now infamous quote "kill them all, god will sort them out."
[the actual quote as follows:
"Tuez-les tous; Dieu reconnaitra les siens."
("Kill them all; for the Lord knoweth them that are His.")]


it was uttered by Arnaud-Amaury, Abbot of Citeaux, in 1209.
note at that time he was a mere abbot, a local leader of a monastery,
NOT the pope.
big difference
but the truth isn't nearly as dramatic as the lie.

Who's Who In The Cathar War: Arnaud Amaury, Abbot of Cîteaux
As Abbot of Cîteaux, Arnaud was the chief Abbot of the Cistercian monastic order. Like St Dominic who followed him, he made it his business to convert the supposedly heretical Cathars of the Languedoc back to the One True Catholic Church. His preaching, like that of St Dominic, was widely recognised as a comprehensive and humiliating failure, which was something of an embarrasment for a golden mouthed prince of the Church claiming to be assisted by God himself. As the Song of the Cathar Wars relates, the people of the Languedoc laughed at him and scorned him as a fool [laisse 3]. They paid no attention to him and despised everything he said [laisse 4]. When he preached they commented to each other "Ara roda l'abelha" - "Hey, that bee is buzzing around again" [laisse 46].
As with St Dominic, his natural Christian reaction was to arrange death and destruction of those responsible for his humiliation. The murder of one of his monks, Pierre de Castelnau, from the Abbey of Fontfroid, provided a suitable pretext, and soon the crime was pinned on Raymond VI, Count of Toulouse, although there was no evidence against him, and no trial was ever held. Pope Innocent III, after meeting with Arnaud, started preaching a formal Crusade against the people of the Languedoc, and also issued secret orders to the effect that Raymond should be destroyed whatever he did.
Arnaud himself was appointed as military leader of the crusaders during the first stages of the war in 1209. This was a perfectly normal occurance at this time, but Arnaud's love of terror and killing was perhaps above average, even for a senior churchman. It was he who was responsible for the mass burning alive of "many heretics and many fair women" at Casseneuil", for the massacre at Béziers, where some 20,000 men, women and children were killed in an "exercise of christian charity", and for the immortal words "Kill them all. God will know his own". He was also responsible for the siege of Carcassonne, and for the shamefull siezure of Raymond-Roger Trencavel, Viscount of Carcassonne, Béziers, Albi and the Razès during a truce - leading to the fall of Carcassonne.
The first formal crusade over, Arnaud tried to find a senior French noble to hold the territory, but none would accept. Finally, Arnaud, speaking on behald of the pope, ordered Simon de Montfort to take on the impossible job.
Arnaud later became Archbishop of Narbonne.


btw
for each and every single atrocity you can find
committed by christians in the dark ages
i can post an equal atrocity committed by muslims
during their wars of expansion across europe and the middle east
and even into india,
millions of people were slaughtered
and millions more were forced at swordpoint to become muslims,
entire cities and villages burned, etc.
the salient difference is that
christianity stopped a few centuries ago
and islam has not.

#59 Dutchdude

Dutchdude

    Mycotopiate

  • Expired Member
  • 265 posts

Posted 21 September 2006 - 05:33 AM

I read this all three years ago and you are right, very stupid to make that remark from memory.

btw
for each and every single atrocity you can find
committed by christians in the dark ages
i can post an equal atrocity committed by muslims
during their wars of expansion across europe and the middle east
and even into india,
millions of people were slaughtered and millions more were
forced at swordpoint to become muslims, entire cities and villages burned, etc.
the salient difference is that
christianity stopped a few centuries ago
and islam has not.


Yes you are right.

My point was that the quote the pope made, came from a timeline where christianity itself was absorbed by violence. This didnt make sense to me and in Holland we say something like: 'the pot blames the kettle being black'. I should have had my facts straight though and I will make sure I have in the future.


HC

#60 Hippie3

Hippie3

    DUNG DEALER

  • Founders
  • 40,642 posts

Posted 21 September 2006 - 05:46 AM

we have a similar saying and i see the point.
but the past is not the present.

one cannot give a free pass to jihadist activity today
because of similar evil done by others long ago.
yet that is how most try to debate the issue.

they reply to the charge that jihadists are shooting nuns
by mentioning the crusaders of the dark ages.
they defend the jihadists actions by talking about how the american indians got screwed.
if someone blows up a school in afghanistan or chechnya
they blame it on the israelis, the americans and the UN.

they do everything except confront the actual issue
of what is being done in the world today by these fanatics.
they make up excuses for murder,
blaming the murder not on the actual killers
but upon whoever it was that pissed the killers off.
like that nun really had it coming to her because the
crusaders burned a town 800 years ago.
nonsense.

that kind of 'politeness'
is going to get a lot more people killed
before this fire finally goes out.




Like Mycotopia? Become a member today!