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"Ecstasy like high"?


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#1 ElrikEriksson

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Posted 15 December 2019 - 05:08 AM

I've never done ecstasy. Around here its typically laced with speed and I hate speed with a passion, so I probably never will take ecstasy.

But for the sake of terminology I'm curious.

When I take an unequivocally high dose of cubensis there are several hours when I'm happy. Not just happy, absolutely thrilled. Exploding with rampant glee! Glee, I say!~ All I can do for about three hours is to squirm in delight, bouncing up and down wanting to scream "Yay!"

Is that a fairly accurate portrayal of the series of symptoms that would describe what people mean when they say "ecstasy like high"?


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#2 RutgerHauer

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Posted 15 December 2019 - 05:32 AM

I have done ecstasy a couple of times but to me it doesn't feel like most people will describe. Were most people will feel a feeling of love and get jumpy, can't stop chewing and moving around, I will get very calm and move into myself more. It has a sedative effect on me, it feels kind of good, but nothing spectacular I must admit, in low and medium/high doses and different settings.

That's why I left it at maybe five times of experiencing it, once in real crazy high doses to see where it would take me - also not interesting and I experienced some strange physical problems due to it for several weeks, it kind of broke me for a while. In really high doses over longer periods of time it just gives that speedy effect in the end - and through the conversion of MDMA into MDA some pretty lousy visual effects. Really not worth getting into!

-

Before I ever tried ecstasy I had experienced something else that I would have described as the most ecstatic feeling I had ever felt. It was the combination of Hawaiian Baby Woodrose, an LSA containing seed, of which I took one gram, and weed. I was a heavy weed smoker at the time and smoked a gram of haze (mixed with tobacco) that evening - that is about five or maybe six spliffs for me.

The effect was interesting, it started out feeling like an alcohol intoxication, a bit dizzy, losing fine motor control, being a bit careless in my movement, thinking and speech. I hung out on my couch all evening and put my headphones on with music friends had recommended but I hadn't yet taken the time to listen to. I had been having a lot of trouble before with listening to new music: I produced music at the time myself and other than my own creations nothing could interest me.

While listening, with the lights turned off, the alcohol like experience changed into a feeling I would then describe as something that might feel like ecstasy. Remember I had not done E at that time so I could not make the comparison really.
I felt his immense love, understanding and respect for music, life and the people around me, even though I was alone in my room. My love for music and people had been reborn that evening. This is probably where the psychedelic part took over the experience, combining with the alcohol like intoxication it started with and merging with the spliffs I was smoking pretty much continually (haze has a sort of stimulant effect on me, might be a big part of it).

It turned into this indescribable synesthesia I have never experienced since. Without light surrounding me and completely immersed into the music, lying on my couch in complete relaxation I experienced what one could name an eargasm. The music translated into colors, tingles and energies rushing through my body in waves, feeling completely at one with everything, squirming with pleasure and laughing out loud. It was amazing, a real eye opener.

I have tried to recreate the effect twice but it was a disappointment of some sorts. The awakening had already happened that first time so I guess that's why it never got to that kind of experience again.

The experience had a third stage that reminded me of an afterglow of an LSD experience, the calm and psychedelic thoughts.. the residual feeling of that peak lingering in my mind and body.. The whole experience felt like a healing of some kind, that stuck with me ever since.

-

It seems to me that you experience some of these same things on high doses of Cubensis. Sounds real psychedelic to me.

On ecstasy, I have never experienced anything that resembles this feeling of love and ecstasy like many people say they do. At most I felt content, not particularly happy, but maybe a little more empathic. Not cuddly, talkative or anything people will report on when using ecstasy. I might experience some similar things as other people do but maybe I don't feel the need to express that, or it is not as impressive to me. Probably it just has a different effect on me, or I have a different effect on it.

The effects were also never anything lasting and feels like something fake, the next days the well known dip completely takes away any positive effect one might have from such an experience like when taking a psychedelic. It is kind of worthless to me, similar to alcohol: you feel great at that time but you can't take that experience with you, and even feel regret.


I wonder how much of these reported effect of ecstasy are maybe formed by expectation and influencing each other - like when using with a group of close friends - and how much they are heavily dependant on circumstance.. Just like a group of (teenage) friends can get real high on alcohol and go crazy.

Edited by RutgerHauer, 15 December 2019 - 06:54 AM.

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#3 ElrikEriksson

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Posted 15 December 2019 - 07:05 AM

That sounds like an amazing LSA experience, I haven't done that in ages but I do recall having trips that were a lighter version of what you describe.

As to your MDMA idiosyncrasy, that sounds like it would make a nice 'spice' to season other trips. It probably wouldn't be worth it, given the potential long term side effects though.


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#4 RutgerHauer

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Posted 15 December 2019 - 07:20 AM

I had considered doing a candy flip at the time I had been experimenting with ecstasy and LSD but have never done that.

I think the long term side effects I speak of were due to the insane dosage and some uncomfortable positions I found myself in for several hours, also I wasn't very healthy physically. I dosed ten 130mg pills (not a good idea, I was a bit lost at that time) over the course of 24 hours. It might have damaged my nerve/muscle tissue somehow and had some impact on my brain function.
Whenever I turned my head to the left, one of my legs would go numb (very annoying when crossing the street), my movement became somewhat twitchy sometimes - and of course I could not get even an hour of continual sleep and had some fucked up broken/glitchy dream experiences. It lasted for a week or three but fortunately I recovered from all that.

In smaller amounts I haven't had any lasting issues other than feeling like poop for a couple of days to a week.

Edited by RutgerHauer, 15 December 2019 - 07:35 AM.


#5 TVCasualty

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Posted 16 December 2019 - 09:51 AM

FWIW, MDMA is a form of "speed" in the sense that it's a mildly-psychedelic form of methamphetamine.

 

There are ways to mitigate the "crash" by pre-loading with supplements, and it's well-worth exploring so long as you can find some of verifiable purity. It's not like anything else, and one of the things that makes it potentially dangerous is how uniquely-incredible it can be. Most people also take too much. So do your homework first.

 

MDMA is one of those drugs where Alan Watts' suggestion regarding psychedelic use should be followed IMO: "When you get the message, hang up the phone."

 

I don't agree with him that it should apply to all psychedelics, just those that can be dangerous unto themselves. So I don't apply that advice to the classics like fungi, cacti, or Ayahuasca since the messages they give us tend to change over time.

 

MDMA really only has one thing to say, and it says it loud and clear. It's worth a listen, once or twice. And frankly I prefer MDA. No serotonin crash, for one thing (but no super-intense electric rush, either).


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#6 PJammer24

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Posted 16 December 2019 - 10:33 AM

A lot of the pressed ecstasy pills aren't laced with speed, they are simply not MDMA or MDA to start with... There are a lot of speed like chemicals that people will use. I typically eat Molly or Sass these days (MDMA or MDA)... I will occasionally consume a pressed pill but only when I am familiar with the source and can be confident in its contents.

 

I don't the OP or Hauer have experienced a proper product...


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#7 RutgerHauer

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Posted 16 December 2019 - 12:18 PM

I think I have PJ - Elrik hasn't because he said so.

 

It would be wrong to assume that everyone would experience the same thing on E and conclude that when the same effect isn't reported that he must have had something else.

 

I have had different pills with the same effect and almost all of the pills in my country contain nothing but MDMA, this is regularly tested by institutions all over the country - and therefore over here it has become a myth that they are laced. My friends have had the pills tested and the dealer does that too so he knows what he is selling, the testing is available here legally and for free. You bring a quarter of your pill to a desk and the next week you will receive a printout of the contents - and the advice to not use it if it is something else in there.


Edited by RutgerHauer, 16 December 2019 - 12:31 PM.

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#8 PJammer24

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Posted 16 December 2019 - 12:35 PM

I think I have PJ - Elrik hasn't because he said so.

 

It would be wrong to assume that everyone would experience the same thing on E and conclude that when the same effect isn't reported that he must have had something else.

 

I have had different pills with the same effect and almost all of the pills in my country contain nothing but MDMA, this is regularly tested by institutions all over the country - and therefore over here it has become a myth that they are laced. My friends have had the pills tested and the dealer does that too so he knows what he is selling, the testing is available here legally and for free. You bring a quarter of your pill to a desk and the next week you will receive a printout of the contents - and the advice to not use it if it is something else in there.

 

"It would be wrong to assume that everyone would experience the same thing on E and conclude that when the same effect isn't reported that he must have had something else."

 

In this case, I am not so sure this statement is correct... There are SOO many different chemicals being mixed into ecstasy pills and being sold as molly that in many parts of the country you are more likely getting another chemical than mda or mdma...

 

You may be right but if you didn't personally test it prior to consuming, depending what pat of the world you reside, your odds of consuming a different substance are incredibly high....

 

This is based on my experience in the states, if you are in Europe the odds of consuming something else are much lower... At this point, I know without doubt what I am consuming but in my younger years, I ate many different chemicals that were being billed as mdma


Edited by PJammer24, 16 December 2019 - 12:37 PM.


#9 RutgerHauer

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Posted 16 December 2019 - 01:21 PM

I live in the Netherlands. Very low chances of that happening here, especially now. And I'm a young guy, it wasn't very many years ago that I experimented with it - 20-30 years ago it was more common that that kind of thing was happening.

 

I also posted this before, but I didn't use E alone all the time, just this once. I had taken the same pill with friends, who exhibited the usual ecstasy high, all of them except me - it almost has the negative pshysical effect on me, and less of a mental effect as well. Might be an ADD thing, or strictly personal..

Happened with different 'brands' of pills (they all have a logo stamped on them here so you can 'trust' you buy something you had before, with the same dose - usually this comes from the same batch or producer, but you can't be 100% sure about that I guess) as well on multiple occasions, they did the same thing for me every time, I would recognize the effect for sure.

 

We took the same pills from the same dealer on the same day, different effects..

How would you explain this difference other than a personal thing? That's why I think your assumptions are wrong in my case. (heard similar stories of people reacting the opposite way when dosing with their friends so it isn't a strictly personal thing, it clearly acts on people in different ways)

 

I know my experience isn't the usual and I am not claiming that it is, but that is also why it isn't an interesting drug for me if I wanted to experience a feeling of ecstasy.

For some people it is the way to go - for some it is not - and that's why some do it every weekend, some once in a while and still be interested, and some a few times and never again.

 

I was making the point I have had a more ecstatic experience on a psychedelic which seemed similar to OPs experience on Cubensis. For myself I can't confirm that this kind of experience is experienced on E, because it just doesn't do that for me. That was worth sharing I think.


Edited by RutgerHauer, 16 December 2019 - 02:13 PM.


#10 PJammer24

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Posted 16 December 2019 - 02:35 PM

I live in the Netherlands. Very low chances of that happening here, especially now. And I'm a young guy, it wasn't very many years ago that I experimented with it - 20-30 years ago it was more common that that kind of thing was happening.

 

I also posted this before, but I didn't use E alone all the time, just this once. I had taken the same pill with friends, who exhibited the usual ecstasy high, all of them except me - it almost has the negative pshysical effect on me, and less of a mental effect as well. Might be an ADD thing, or strictly personal..

Happened with different 'brands' of pills (they all have a logo stamped on them here so you can 'trust' you buy something you had before, with the same dose - usually this comes from the same batch or producer, but you can't be 100% sure about that I guess) as well on multiple occasions, they did the same thing for me every time, I would recognize the effect for sure.

 

We took the same pills from the same dealer on the same day, different effects..

How would you explain this difference other than a personal thing? That's why I think your assumptions are wrong in my case. (heard similar stories of people reacting the opposite way when dosing with their friends so it isn't a strictly personal thing, it clearly acts on people in different ways)

 

I know my experience isn't the usual and I am not claiming that it is, but that is also why it isn't an interesting drug for me if I wanted to experience a feeling of ecstasy.

For some people it is the way to go - for some it is not - and that's why some do it every weekend, some once in a while and still be interested, and some a few times and never again.

 

I was making the point I have had a more ecstatic experience on a psychedelic which seemed similar to OPs experience on Cubensis. For myself I can't confirm that this kind of experience is experienced on E, because it just doesn't do that for me. That was worth sharing I think.

In the netherlands I suspect you are getting a quality product... In the states, it is pretty common for people to receive an adulterated product. I won't take anything from people that I havent know for decades because i have paid dearly for trusting people in the past and consumed some pretty raunchy stuff...

 

Are you on any meds for ADHD or depression, bipolar, anything like this? These can impact your experience.

 

I have been around a lot of different people who have consumed mdma and mda... The jawing/chewing is pretty damn common... I have never seen someone who has had significantly different effects who were not on meds... Not saying it isnt possible but it should release serotonin for just about anyone ... The only real difference I can see is that a buzz is essentially a type of anxiety or a chemical reaction to  as substance put in your body... I suspect you have a different way of dealing with this anxiety rather than the effects of the drugs being different... You just cope differently I suspect... Over the last 20 years, I have consumed and handled more molly than most and typically the effect is the same unless medications are involved... Your experience is the first i have heard where it has not worked...


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#11 RutgerHauer

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Posted 16 December 2019 - 06:19 PM

No meds were ever prescribed to me. I say maybe it's an ADD thing, but no psych has ever told me that there was anything wrong with me like that.. But now I think about it I think you are right: I was on many other stimulants!

This is some insight I have never had before in it's complexity. It connects to some other posts I made here, and I really don't mean to take over the thread but I think I can explain and then I can finally shut up about it.

 

It's gonna sound like a mess, it was in real life even more messy and I probably left things out..

 

-

 

It was 8 years or 9 years ago, I was messing myself up from all sides around that time: no sleep, periods of eating too little, working too hard, periods of overeating, not working, spending money I didn't have, drinking heavily, messing up my education, debts, smoking (weed) heavily.. I was an unhealthy person on every level and had to sedate myself a lot because of course I wasn't happy. They would have called me depressed at some point in this story.

 

Another major theme was that I kept myself awake through anything I could get my hands on that could give me some stimulation. I did this through smoking weed, drinking coffee, movies, series, porn, masturbation, music - maybe I WAS ON A STIMULANT to cope - and trained myself to get better and better at getting through that miserable state of exhaustion and sedation by also providing myself with external stimulation.

 

I had just made myself insensitive to any kind of stimulant which made the ecstasy not work for me.

 

-

 

On E I sensed the chewing effect, I get how that feels (and sometimes I feel that in ordinary, sober life, especially when I am tired, like right now) but it stayed minimal and did't need to express it like most people seem to be doing it uncontrollably. I seem to be able to relax with it all, have no choice because like I said before I felt like being sedated, that goes for my whole body and attitude; where others feel like dancing or moving their legs while sitting in an active position, I would rather stand or sit still, relaxed, or better yet lay down and close my eyes. I felt kind of normal most of the time, but more relaxed.

Where others have eyes wide open, mine are the opposite like you would expect from somebody who has smoked weed, relaxed. Where others become talkative, feel like touching, hugging, kissing, sex - I become more introspective, observant and don't feel like touching or being touched, talking, sex,or anything like that in particular. That is mostly just my character.

 

That was about 7 years ago and I think the insensitivity to the stimulants I created myself, made me feel more normal than anything out of the ordinary on ecstasy and I think that makes sense. This was also the case with my first LSD experience. Just more normal, nothing spectacular.

 

-

 

After that experimentation with sometimes taking E and LSD (acid broke through many of my stuckness, so to say, but this wasn't helpful or giving me any direction) I abused E once real bad, had a period when I would snort Ritalin while smoking lots of weed, had an occasion where I took a huge amount of DOC, which confused me so much that it made me struggle with alcohol again. I did however stop using stimulants pretty much after that, and later layed off the alcohol again and got back to just smoking weed. Which I had also quit after that for a while until I returned.

 

I have been off drug-stimulants for 5 or 6 years and in those past few years I got to, and quit drinking and smoking weed in phases while still maintaining most of the habits that were also stimulating me before and causing me trouble. Overall things gradually got less mixed up and I was able to put aside my habits more easily over the past two years, but never all of them I needed to.

 

They had always been the only habits I knew and in the past two or three years my search for new habits began:

Diet, spirituality, got into growing shrooms, got back into drawing, got into being more physically active, but once in a while I would get drawn back, especially to the weed and eventually the alcohol and let go of my new habits more and more over the past year.

 

 

Only recently I have again been able to completely sober up and pick up my newfound habits - no alcohol and weed. Funny enough, it makes me feel like I am on a stimulant most of the time. That's probably the effect of that messed up history of overstimulation now restoring itself, getting more sensitive to it all. It also gives that sedative effect I described of ecstasy, I am more relaxed.

 

The difference now is that I am recognizing all the old habits that had stuck with me all these years and am doing something about it by choosing the better ones I have developed over the past years.

 

Giving myself a challenge and something interesting like growing mushrooms is a major help.

 

-

 

It's weird that a discussion about how ecstasy has effected me can bring this kind of thing into perspective. Just had to type it all out to make sense of it and I hope you don't mind, ElrikEriksson - or any other members who might be reading this.

 

-

 

And PJammer, while I was first a bit annoyed I felt like I needed to explain to you that it was normal for me to react differently to something like ecstasy, I thank you for making me think about this, it helped. And you were right, you hit the nail on the head.

 

 

 

Now I will shut up about all of this.

 

Let us grow mushrooms


Edited by RutgerHauer, 16 December 2019 - 06:33 PM.

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#12 PJammer24

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Posted 17 December 2019 - 09:16 AM

I just got to work and don't have time to read this entire post quite yet but I wanted to point out that I also have ADD


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#13 RutgerHauer

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Posted 17 December 2019 - 10:36 AM

No problem, I am dumping a shitload on you guys here.. Don't even to expect you to read it all.

 

You just have to read a little bit more than my first sentence, when you have the time, to see that I retract that ADD hypothesis - and why I think you were right in some way..

 

I don't believe ADD is a real problem or condition by the way, so in my eyes you don't have it. I just mentioned it before because other people might label me that way and I thought it was related to this, but after this insight spelled out above I don't think that is the case.


Edited by RutgerHauer, 17 December 2019 - 10:52 AM.


#14 PJammer24

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Posted 17 December 2019 - 03:59 PM

ADD is diagnosed to people whose brain chemistry is different from each other... It is a set of symptoms but not a specific underlying condition in my mind. That being said, many stimulants chill me out rather than speed me up.

 

MDMA and similar chemicals produce the desired empathetic effect for me but cocaine and speed for example lead to me speaking less and they also keep me from bouncing my leg which I am prone to do...

 

DOB, DOA, DOC and the like have been gross experiences for me...

 

When I have taken MDMA or MDA while taking cocaine as well as some other chemicals, the expected effects of the mdma have been greatly reduced.

 

I am glad you have come to a realization!


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#15 Alder Logs

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Posted 17 December 2019 - 08:22 PM

The ADHD and ADD deniers don't know that the syndromes were recognized many years ago, and one of the markers were some inverse brain chemical readings from control groups.  Yes, there have been a lot of unnecessarily medicated students, and that has created the false news which created the deniers.


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#16 RainbowCatepillar

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Posted 17 December 2019 - 10:58 PM

Had to do this for a class to get insight on what it's like to have ADHD.
This game only takes a couple mins to play, but it's definitely eye-opening.
I know this is not the topic of discussion, but i figured i'd share to help others
get an idea of what living with ADHD is like.. 


ADHD simulation game:

https://www.understo...simulation=true

 


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#17 RutgerHauer

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 06:36 AM

I know that there are some different brain readouts when it comes to people 'suffering' from ADHD/ADD, that it is a real thing in that sense. I'm not denying it in that sense. But I am of the opinion it isnt a permanent state or condition that has to be a problem.

 

The symptoms associated with it can come from many different factors - if those factors are handled and corrected ADHD and ADD don't have to be something to be suffering from, if your mind is then still considered to be ADHD because it works a little different, then I see it as just being part of your character, it can be as useful as it can be problematic. People with a certain character might be predisposed to possibly develop problematic symptoms on these lines.

 

Like many things, the suffering is the problem - and what you do to change that thinking and behaviour can make the difference of night and day.


Edited by RutgerHauer, 18 December 2019 - 06:40 AM.


#18 PJammer24

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 09:51 AM

The ADHD and ADD deniers don't know that the syndromes were recognized many years ago, and one of the markers were some inverse brain chemical readings from control groups.  Yes, there have been a lot of unnecessarily medicated students, and that has created the false news which created the deniers.

As someone who has been diagnosed with ADD, I am of the opinion that there are people being treated for ADD who have wholly different causes for their symptoms... Obviously, these symptoms are caused by a difference in an individuals brain chemistry, though I won't cause it an imbalance, that in many cases may have developed through natural evolution. The brain chemistry that leads to the symptoms most likely had some sort of benefit in the past. I think that if you took 100 individuals who have been diagnosed with ADD, you would find an eclectic mix of brain chemistries with different combinations producing similar behaviors. It is the behavior being treated in most cases and not the root of the behavior.



#19 Alder Logs

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 12:06 PM

I was lucky, I had learning disorders.  I don't know how many times I have said this.

 

As a child, and through much of my adult life, it didn't feel that way.   My holy grail was to be normal.  Isn't that a riot?  I bless psychedelics and the '60s and '70s hippie culture now because they did so much toward getting me over the psychological impact of all those years when the message was to conform.  It is the mandate of the standard school culture.  Even though I could not conform in any way in the school environment, conform was still the message I took away from it when I had to be moving on, with no way to stop years from doing what they do. 

 

Much of the inner life was trying to make sense of what seemed to make no sense.  People would say, "come on man, you know what's going on, you know how things work."   The social schemes that everyone else got, these were a mystery to me, and no, I didn't know what was going on, I didn't know how things, social, worked.  I went along under an enormous weight of guilt for not getting it, for flunking everything, for not knowing.  There was a huge blessing in this, in a thirst to learn.  I couldn't learn in a way as most of my peers could.  I was functionally illiterate, as dyslexia was paired with the ADHD, and my reading skills were first or second grade at best when I was in high school. 

 

I think because I didn't get 'educated' in any really conceptual way, meaning starting every bit of understanding from some textbook mentality, I was there more to get it all experientially.  I remember making the determination at very young age, perhaps sixteen, to stay feeling, even through the pain and aloneness of the school and social experience.  I was like a dog, kicked by a master, though it was normalcy that was doing the kicking, and I could not be any part of that unreachable concept.    But I stayed in feeling, stayed where it was, in that heart chakra feeling center.  The brain couldn't do anything with that but find anger and frustration.

 

To come back to the topic, if by a circuitous route, I did ecstasy one time.  I was at a party, actually, it was at the remote location where I was the house sitter, alone most of the time, and the owners were there, and it was their party with their friends, many of whom were jet-set types and high rollers.   I had been eating mushrooms that weekend already, and when I told the partiers I had never had ecstasy, they felt it necessary to remedy this.  Someone gave me a tablet and after a while, I reported feeling nothing at all.  I was given another with the same result.  Finally, I got a third and it did kick in. 

 

What I finally saw with the ecstasy was this, it just seemed to drop the conscious focus from the brain mind to the heart mind.  I could see how people might give away the farm on this drug.   I could see how psychologists might use it to get laid.  And I could see why it took so much of it for me to know what it was.  I had lived for so long in a forth chakra kind of place that its job was already done here.  What it was trying to show me wasn't so different than my version of normal. 

 

Here ends this stream of consciousness post.


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#20 Coopdog

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 01:54 PM

I have had pure mdma a few times that was tested and true. Dancesafe is a site that sells testing kits, and they went around the country testing supposed mdma at raves and clubs all over the country. THeir results after thousands of tests of street drugs here in the USA... "0" real mdma. That goes to show that the average pill that consumers get here in the USA is way more than likely some bath salt like pseudo drug, and there are a lot of them. It sure would be nice if it was all real like it is in the Netherlands. Much of the pure stuff that IS out there comes from labs in the Netherlands I just read a while back. The pure mdma shards I had looked like broken car window glass. While I had a source for this good stuff I bought it three times. 

 

The effects of these experiences overall were very understated as Rutger Hauer said. You could take more and get off pretty good, with some cool mild visual effects and dance for hours but for me it was more of an enhancement of the evening, and left me comfortable and approachable with a great smiley attitude, that night anyhow. It was an amazing additive to an acid trip, but when I did them together I did not get the beautiful after effects that I usually get from just LSD. After LSD I am happy and ready to attack the day for a couple of weeks, and it is a real reinforcement to my work load and leaves me happy all the way around. The next day after mixing the two I would be down and unhappy to go to work the next week. Big difference. 

 

All in all I was glad to get it and glad for the experience, but knowing the reliability of street drugs here in the USA I would probably not get any more unless that same guy was to call me again and offer me more of that pure stuff that was tested and true. 

 

To me, extacy is nowhere near the hype, and to get near that level will leave you burnt out for days and really not worth it. Like someone said people are using way to much of it if they are getting that orgasmic about it. 


Edited by Coopdog, 18 December 2019 - 01:56 PM.

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