Paradox
©
Fisana

Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Why the Deformities?


  • Please log in to reply
26 replies to this topic

#21 Melonmuziq

Melonmuziq

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 78 posts

Posted 18 December 2019 - 01:19 PM

I wasn't sure you used a casing. When did you apply it? For Cubensis you don't necessarily need it, so maybe you could do without it and just let it fully colonize so at least you would exclude that from the possibilities of that being the issue. If it is petroleum residue that has the effect I'm not sure what to do. Changing one thing at a time will tell you more than changing everything so maybe not casing it after colonization (assuming you did that) is enough to tell you more on a next grow.

I am not sure about whether a print would be a better idea than a clone. You could try both and get them on agar, maybe it both works - or maybe you can get something clean from them. I would guess a print would be better, especially if you could take it from a mushroom that was still (partially) closed.

I have heard that casing is not necessary but since i am working in less than ideal conditions, i used it to help keep contams down. I put the casing on right away and it became fully colonized. It looks like a nice pin set but i think some of the casing may have tagged along when the pins sprouted causing issues. From the pics, it looks more like scarring than a mutation but i could be wrong.
You are right. Changing one thing at a time would be the best way to experiment. I will try it without the casing next time.
If it is the casing, maybe the next flush will be better. That may offer some clues as well.

Edited by Melonmuziq, 18 December 2019 - 01:50 PM.


#22 PJammer24

PJammer24

    Archetype Novice

  • OG VIP
  • 1,915 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 18 December 2019 - 02:26 PM

I will often see this exact thing in later flushes... I couldn't tell you the cause but I typically don't pay it a whole lot of mind...


  • RutgerHauer and Melonmuziq like this

#23 Melonmuziq

Melonmuziq

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 78 posts

Posted 18 December 2019 - 03:27 PM

I will often see this exact thing in later flushes... I couldn't tell you the cause but I typically don't pay it a whole lot of mind...

Do u think its environmental factors? Contams?
If that is the case then it would not make much difference when taking a clone. Correct?

#24 macgyver

macgyver

    Mycotopiate

  • VIP
  • 449 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 18 December 2019 - 04:47 PM

 

 

Im working outside the matrix so things ofyen glich out.
I was hoping to clone from a good cluster since i started from spores. Should i worry about the deformities because there seems to be one or more it every cluster? Not that i can even tell where one starts and another one ends. They have all grown together. The best looking cluster at the beginning of pinning is now the smallest. So how do would i even pic where to clone from?


I'd love to give advice with confidence but it really seems like a guessing game without the proper tech and knowledge. If you want to clone I would go with your gut and pick a fruit that displays the best phenotypes. Maybe as far away from a mutant as possible but I'm not sure that it would matter if it is genetic. If it is genetic then the mutation is resting in the DNA of the strain you are working with and a clone would be a crap shoot. I've researched a bit about this and it seems like if the strain/substrain is in a rapid state of degradation then mutants will be present no matter how hard you try to avoid them. If it is deeply rooted they will still be present, but they should (in theory) show up slowly over time. It would probably be smarter to take a print of the best fruit and start there. 
 
Take this lightly, it is mostly speculation!
I am planning on taking prints as well. Do u think that might be better than a clone at this point? I wonder if it is possible to regenerate a strain that is in degradation if u give it a wide variety of food.
I am going to try both and see what happens. If it is degraded and i cant pull something good out of it then im done with this one.

 

Yeah trying both would be the best option, would be good to test out both and see what happens, it could give you an idea of how the mutation is happening if you keep as many variables controlled as you can and run these two grows side by side. I would think that if the tray that you grow out from spores shows the same mutation, it could indicate a more overarching genetic issue.

 

It also still could be a part of your process that is causing it, while IMO this is less likely, it is something to think about when you are conducting your experiments.

 

Another cool thing to do that I was thinking about trying just for fun, is cloning the strangest mutant that I can find and growing that out :biggrin:

 

I have seen light signs of Verticillum in almost every grow that I have done so far, but again I'm not clear on the science as to whether or not a bacterial infection can influence things on a genetic level, or if vert could cause dormant genetics to wake up and cause a fluctuation in the appearance of a fruit body.

 

This is a super interesting aspect of growing to me, I just started taking a DNA sequencing class so maybe I will find some answers there!
 


  • Melonmuziq likes this

#25 PJammer24

PJammer24

    Archetype Novice

  • OG VIP
  • 1,915 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 19 December 2019 - 10:07 AM

 

I will often see this exact thing in later flushes... I couldn't tell you the cause but I typically don't pay it a whole lot of mind...

Do u think its environmental factors? Contams?
If that is the case then it would not make much difference when taking a clone. Correct?

 

I don't think that this would be passed with a clone but I could be wrong... I have noticed that it often happens in stressed substrates where the myc doesn't bounce back as well as other but that might be coincidence. I have also noticed that the substrates with these are often very wet, possibly due to my using excess verm since I only eyeball it typically... PE will blob up more with certain conditions... I don't know if its too much nutrition or too much water but since lowering the amount of hpoo in my PE mix as well as less verm, I have seen FAR LESS mutant blobbing than in the past. This could be similar to that in some sense.


  • Melonmuziq likes this

#26 Melonmuziq

Melonmuziq

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 78 posts

Posted 19 December 2019 - 04:40 PM

I will often see this exact thing in later flushes... I couldn't tell you the cause but I typically don't pay it a whole lot of mind...

Do u think its environmental factors? Contams?
If that is the case then it would not make much difference when taking a clone. Correct?

I don't think that this would be passed with a clone but I could be wrong... I have noticed that it often happens in stressed substrates where the myc doesn't bounce back as well as other but that might be coincidence. I have also noticed that the substrates with these are often very wet, possibly due to my using excess verm since I only eyeball it typically... PE will blob up more with certain conditions... I don't know if its too much nutrition or too much water but since lowering the amount of hpoo in my PE mix as well as less verm, I have seen FAR LESS mutant blobbing than in the past. This could be similar to that in some sense.
I think u are on to something. That could definitely be the case here as well.
Thank you
  • PJammer24 likes this

#27 Severian

Severian

    Mycophiliac

  • VIP
  • 64 posts

Posted 23 December 2019 - 05:57 PM

My recent batch of Golden teacher looks exactly like this. 

 

I'll post photos as soon as I can find a card reader.

 

edit: And only used isopropyl alcohol as the cleaner.

 

edit 2: Though, through reading the many people mentioning petroleum products causing rosecomb I'd like to add a few words-

 

 

I'm currently in the middle of reading a book titled "Our Stolen Future'' co-written by three people, one of whom is Theo Colburne, the scientist primarily responsible for discovering the endocrine disrupting effects that certain chemicals (Especially petrochemicals) have on the body, and the the environment. Highly suggest reading this for everyone- a modern 'Silent Spring'- but one of the take away points is how ubiquitous these chemicals are- and how incredibily tiny amounts still produce biological effects- we're talking  parts per trillion for some of them; that's a single drop in 1800 tanker cars in a train 10 miles long.

 

And, the effects they have on biological bodies is compounded in those  in the very beginning stages of development, whether it's seagull, tadpole, or human- Now, I don't know enough about the physiology of a mushroom (if anyone can point me in the direction of a good book I'd be grateful)- but even if they don't possess a close analog of our own endocrine system, I don't think it's a stretch of the imagination to think that a just budding pin could be sensitive to these environmental pollutants.


Edited by Severian, 23 December 2019 - 06:23 PM.

  • Melonmuziq likes this




Like Mycotopia? Become a member today!