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The Roaring 20's are back, and the future is here!


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#61 TVCasualty

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 03:44 PM

The world needs a good hard cleansing, and is clearly going to get it real soon so that's not a concern of mine. I gave up on saving the proverbial world a while back when it became clear that we lack the collective will to succeed and just decided not to have kids instead so I can relax and maybe even enjoy the show.

 

 

 

I came up with an answer to what Alan Watts was apparently assuming was a rhetorical question he liked to ask: "Is life serious?"

 

He made a series of compelling points to establish that no, it's not 'serious' in the commonly-understood sense of the term. While watching the very entertaining clip of that talk that was animated by the guys who created South Park, it occurred to me that while "life" might not be serious in the grand scheme of things, I can think of at least one aspect of it that is very serious indeed. Or at least it's something that's serious to me and I am unable to see it otherwise, and I'm talking about the suffering of the innocent.

 

But even if I were somehow able to close that Eye and get some rest for a minute, those whose suffering I can See get no such respite, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised that I can't get any either.



#62 Alder Logs

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 05:04 PM

 

...I can think of at least one aspect of it that is very serious indeed.

 

 

Well, there is the suffering that comes in front of us at a given time, and of course, if there is a heart, we must deal with it, as it is, as we are.  But to entertain a projection of universal suffering, or even what might be out of sight around the corner of the street, is a remove from presence.  So, even if we've abandoned any goal of saving some world as an identity, it only loses us energy to occupy an imagined world, which may be either better or worse than we might imagine.  We don't know, and only assume what we are not in the experiencing of right now.   The nature of information is, it's incomplete.   Do we want to bank on the unseen being one way or another? 

 

What is called, "the inquiry," is taking what motivates us and finding the truth of it?  Is it what's happening in present awareness, or is it what we think? 

 

Nothing is what I think it is.  It is what it is.  Any assumption or judgment is a remove from presence. 

 

If I am not more than this body, the skinny 127 pound 72 year old, has my chance passed?  No, I never had that chance, though I spent the first 67 of those years in a battle that was made up in my mind.  Looking back, that battle's goals changed a thousand times, based on my fickle thought processes, and an ever changing perspective. 

 

Our empathy only counts when we can apply it directly, in real time.  My neighbor suffers terribly over her self image and having the world not work as she would have it work.  I can't do anything about it, as that ball is forever going to be in her court.  I might suffer over my impotence at seeing her suffering right in front of these eyes.  Should I bring that suffering home, that if I could just get through to her, past her self image and judgment, I'd have made the difference in the world I would prefer?  No, it's not my job.  Am I to take unhappiness as what I deserve?  Of course not. 

 

I want everyone to be happy.  All I can do is point to the reality that they can be, would be, if they could but let themselves off the hooks they put themselves on. 

 

Be happy, everyone.  Just do it.  Don't make me get rough with you.


Edited by Alder Logs, 20 January 2020 - 05:11 PM.

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#63 TVCasualty

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 05:56 PM


Well, there is the suffering that comes in front of us at a given time, and of course, if there is a heart, we must deal with it, as it is, as we are.  But to entertain a projection of universal suffering, or even what might be out of sight around the corner of the street, is a remove from presence.

 

I was referring to suffering in general, but it's a view informed by more than my share of dealing with it directly, hand's-on, in my presence. Or what's endured by those I care about whether I can do anything about it or not.

 

It's the cost of empathy, I suppose. It can be very, very high.



#64 flashingrooster

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 09:34 PM

 

 A memory of being is a memory.  Being didn't stop; we just put a curtain in front of it.  Where does it go, that knowing that defies words?  It goes nowhere.  We just re-inhabit our idea of separateness and wonder where the unity went.

 

I suspect the words are going to get in the way of what I'm going to try to express, but then without the words I wouldn't be able to express anything at all.

 

Anyway, the deepest and most intense trips I have always involve a mix of visions of things I'd never seen before and memories of things I have. Some of those memories include memories of "being" uncomplicated by notions of abstract identity that occurred during previous experiences, and those memories inform my experiences in ways that bring insights and realizations that probably would not have occurred or been possible without the manifestation of those memories.

 

In some sense we seem to be made out of memories, and memories are made out of experiences but remembering our experiences removes us from the present and the present is the only place where experiences happen. In another sense we posses awareness that requires no memories to function, but as soon as we start to use it we begin forming memories with it since we need to learn (from a physical survival perspective) what to pay attention to and what is safe to ignore (as soon as possible!) and memory is essential for that.

 

I get the impression that memories primarily function as a kind of navigational aid, like a map; they are not the territory but represent an abstraction of it well enough to be very useful for getting around in it. Which is to say that a degree of separation from What Is may be necessary in order to determine Where We're At so we can better understand Where We're Going even if it doesn't really matter where we begin our respective journeys (so it doesn't matter where exactly our personal point of departure/where we're coming from is so long as we HAVE a point of departure, which in this context means our memories).

 

 

What I'd especially like to understand is what the heck is going on when I have very clear, distinct (and totally sober) "memories" of distant times and places. As in what seems like past-life stuff, which I only ponder because of what I've seen in my head but can't explain at all and that involve events or scenes that clearly had to have happened centuries or millennia ago but felt just as real and were just as vivid as any memory of anything that's ever happened to me in this life (and I could also clearly remember not being the person I am now when I recall those other kinds of memories). I'm still open to the possibility that it's all just delusional daydreaming, but they sure seem/feel real when I experience them. And if past-life memories are real (or real enough), then the role of memory may be more significant than anyone yet realizes.

 

There seems to be a kind of dynamic balance between perception and memory that needs to be carefully maintained and if it gets out of whack one way or the other we either risk getting lost in the present from a lack of perspective or getting lost in the past from a lack of awareness of the present.

 

 

This kind of stuff is why the movie Memento messed with my head so much when I watched it on mushrooms. Living entirely in a present that's uninformed by memory (being fully functional but with no cohesive sense of identity) would be terrifying and utterly disorienting, as the film made clear. But living entirely in our memories (being non-functional but with a strong and cohesive sense of identity) would be no better.

 

 

 

I think there is something going on in this instance with, let's call it our dream machine. Whatever the mechanism in your brain that  is able to create another reality that is indistinguishable from this one. We see that synestheshia happening with  music and colours for instance. Could the dream part of our minds be crossing over on a trip when we hallucinate 


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#65 ElPirana

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 07:57 AM

I think there is something going on in this instance with, let's call it our dream machine. Whatever the mechanism in your brain that  is able to create another reality that is indistinguishable from this one. We see that synestheshia happening with  music and colours for instance. Could the dream part of our minds be crossing over on a trip when we hallucinate

I think there could be two things happening, the first is your idea of the dream crossing over, this is easy to imagine happening. The other is a memory of a feeling, maybe one that I had directly or maybe passed down somehow from parents, etc. As the feeling (memory) emerges, the mind creates a vision to go along with the feeling. So even though the experience that includes a vision feels like any other real memory, the visual aspect is made up and can seem like another life that we’re somehow connected to.

I’ve had a number of those experiences where I was clearly somewhere else, but at the same time felt as familiar as my normal day-to-day life. But who knows, in the end I’m just speculating.
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#66 confusedstateofmind

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Posted 26 January 2020 - 08:21 PM

This thread has my brain going in a few different directions I will try to keep it brief
 
When I think of timelines my mind automatically goes to technology to try to get some perspective. Oh okay the cell phone and the car and nuclear power blah blah. When you sit back and look how fast we have accelerated in the last century. From horse and buggy to space flight, and nuclear power. And even those are old news now. The sky is not longer the limit so what should we say, the solar system is the limit
 
Lately it does feel like a bit of a  technological stall for some reason. I would suspect this too is a product of perception, in my ability to keep up with all the emerging teck out there
 
In a few hundred years will they look back on computers as we do things like the wheel, fire, writing and mathematics

 

10 years ago iPads weren't on the market yet (in January; the first one came out in April of 2000).
 
Technology is still advancing exponentially, and it might be moving so fast now that its sheer speed makes the specifics too blurry to notice as they scream past us in the media to be replaced by the next thing and the next and the next before we got our heads wrapped around the last new thing. This thread and the one about Chaos are closely related.
 
 
I would bet everything I have that in a hundred years people will be hunting and gathering again, and looking back on our time as Dark Ages v2.0. Or maybe "Lite Ages v1.0" (all the reactionary ignorance of a Dark Age but with lots of pretty, blinky lights). I can make such a bet because I consider it to be the most-likely outcome by far and in any case if I'm wrong (which I hope I am) then I'll be dead long before then, so good luck collecting.


I agree with this sentiment. Just the direction of our world and how our current system is it seems inevitable to collapse. What that collapse looks like I have no idea. It is a bit scary to think about since I have two young children . We need some kind of reset and new system of living I believe. Some interesting thinkers along this line of thinking are Daniel Schmachtenberger and Jim Rutt




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