73 replies to this topic

[Guy1298]

Well, I harvested my first flush last night. I'm planning to post the coming experiences here as time goes on. This is my fourth period of mushroom-use. There's been a lot of change this year: a couples years advent and growth of non-duality in my way of seeing, a new job and opportunities, loss of friends, etc.

 

Right now, I feel very well. And I am stable in that. I meditate daily, but with no expectation. I realized that for me, it's just a performance to play my part a little better. I'm playing a part. This is essentially a dream. I recently decided to be vegetarian which felt like the right choice. And I'm gradually coming to peace with my habits of action and mind that present themselves most forcefully as "mine" and "wrong."

 

"I am not the doer" is hard to grasp. But, how could it not be the case? Only if "I" is left un-investigated. 

 

Anyway, I'm betting I'm only going to micro-dose. But, in case I up the dose, I'll post here. There's some good nature out here... I'll figure it out. Things will be a little smarter this time around. My hunger for escape has been cut off. I'm happy to reconnect with the mushroom, its ways of deeper feeling and insight, its otherworldly beings, its wisdom, and its gods. 

Edited by Guy1298, 12 January 2020 - 03:46 PM.

[FLASHINGROOSTER]

Be careful with the vegetarian diet you can get deficiencies that can cause health issues if your not careful. It takes some work to do it properly. Ask a doctor they will not recommend a vegetarian diet.  Everyone is different so good luck!

 

My friends gf had this issue she had to start eating fish as per doctors recommendations

Edited by flashingrooster, 15 January 2020 - 02:08 PM.

[RutgerHauer]

Vegetarian is a better choice than vegan. It is very hard to sustain a healthy body and mind on such an extreme diet.

I would also recommend to be careful. If you eat eggs, butter, cheese and the likes you will still get some benefits of animal products/protein/minals and vitamins - without doing much harm to animals - am I correct in assuming you do it for moral reasons? Not that it matters much, I am just curious as I have considered it a while back myself.

 

I have seen somebody in my life change from a not so well thought out vegetarian diet to eating meat again, for the better. I have never been convinced myself that it is a sustainable diet, but it all depends on the individual. I am allergic to a lot of fruit and vegetables, and I think my ancestry's diet has been predominantly animal based - farmers for generations.

 

I do respect your choice - any conscious choice regarding diet is a good choice. I have gone the completely other route and eat only animal products. The way I look at it it is not a moral issue - or at least not a simple issue with any simple and clear cut answer. We don't need to discuss that here.

 

It depends on what your perspective is, or how Robert Anton Wilson puts it: your belief system (B.S.) can be adjusted and change how we feel about things. This differs from person to person and even for one person can change back and forth over his or her lifetime. There is no real right or good choice, but it is good that you decided to make a choice regarding diet if you feel that was needed. I have made a similar choice two years ago and it was good for me to do so.

 

The main thing is to not eat crap! But even that is alright if your belief system allows you to and feel alright about it. To each his own. I wish you luck with bringing about conscious changes in your life.

Edited by RutgerHauer, 15 January 2020 - 02:32 PM.

[Alder Logs]

I am ordering this on DVD today:

 

https://gamechangers...the-film/store/

 

[Direct Link]

[FLASHINGROOSTER]

I think some of those guy's are juicing more than oranges, if ya know what I mean 

Edited by flashingrooster, 15 January 2020 - 05:46 PM.

[Guy1298]

For me, I think in recognizing what I am, or what I'm not, I don't see a difference between myself and animals. So, I don't want to continue to eat them. Would I let my health suffer for that? Most probably. I think I already know that my body and mind are falling apart. I'll manage them within reason.

 

I took just .07g tonight. It's had a very noticeable effect. I recall I was microdosing off .01g a couple years ago. I'll keep cutting it down from here until the effects aren't noticeable. 

[RutgerHauer]

I see what you mean. I can do the same thinking for plants, bacteria and viruses. There is no seperation and they are all intelligent and conscious systems on some level or another.. it is all part of the same, and one thing eats another. When we die in the wild we are food for animals, microbial life and in the end plants. When plants and microbial life die, animals, microbial life and plants eat them directly or indirectly. That is the web of life. You can't really escape it.

 

Some things cooperate, some things compete. Our bodies are cooperating and competing with bacteria and fungi, in- and outside of our bodies, and in a meta sense we are in a mutually beneficial relationship with plants and animals in farming them. (also fungi, mushrooms!)

 

Farming both animals and plants has its impact on the ecosystem for better and worse. Farming animals could be seen as bad for those animals and for the ecosystem, but without farming them they would not exist and we would make a negative impact on the ecosystem as well. If they were to have a good life it would be morally a good thing to keep this relationship going and give them existence instead of removing them from the picture. In return for a life worth living they will give manure back to the land and provide us with an efficient food source.

 

The same goes for plants, if we keep farming them the way we do (they also have no life worth living at the moment) it has negative impact on the ecosystem because we're killing a lot of smaller lifeforms in doing that by using chemicals and overfarming depletes the soil of nutrients - but farming plants also has a positive impact on other life forms like ourselves, microbial life and animals - even farm animals.

 

It's a complex system that can only work in its whole, not one or the other thing is the answer I think.

 

- 

 

Like I said before I do respect your decision, to each his own. But find it unnecessary and worrisome to go as far as to sacrifice your health for a moral cause. As soon as you are experiencing trouble physically or mentally I would not hesitate to rethink your diet choices. I hope for you it will work out for you.

Edited by RutgerHauer, 16 January 2020 - 08:08 AM.

[Alder Logs]

I think some of those guy's are juicing more than oranges, if ya know what I mean 

Yes, you think.  We'll place that in evidence as Exhibit A.

[RutgerHauer]

Lots of other things to be sceptical about in that documentary, but let's not make that the discussion here.

 

About the microdosing: 0.01 gram seems like too little. 0.1 seems like a good aim. The first time you take a microdose you will feel something other wise it just won't be active, the next day you notice less and the next even less. If you keep cutting down the real effect might be negligible and you might as well not take any.

 

I am sceptical about microdosing, I have done it only for a couple of weeks a few years back, I took 0.1 gram of Golden Teacher to guide my getting sober off of booze and weed. I took it first thing in the morning. In the evening I took some CBD oil to 'help me sleep'. After a few weeks I just forgot and didn't notice any difference. It helped to have a ritual every day at around the same time to get back on track with my circadian rhythm, that is all.

Edited by RutgerHauer, 16 January 2020 - 01:58 PM.

[Guy1298]

Yeah, .01 sounds like too little, but I think a very low amount like that works best for me. That .07 gave me a pretty strong body high, and some strange thoughts.

[RutgerHauer]

Yeah try it again the next day and you won't feel it like that again because you become tolerant. You are supposed to feel something the first dose, just like any other medication. You will need to build up a tolerance.

[Guy1298]

In my experience awhile back, I didn't notice tolerance with micro-doses. 

 

I don't plan on using back-to-back. I remember it being emotionally destabilizing if I use too often or if I put the dose in the .2-.5 range. Just two times a week, and I think I'm going to keep it low low.

[RutgerHauer]

Okay man. I would think infrequent microdosing will make it more destabilizing because of not building up a tolerance. But maybe that works differently for you. I will stop telling you what to do now. You'll figure out what works for you better than I will.

[newmoon]

Although it was a tangent, I don't think you should be worried about going vegetarian. I've been strictly vegetarian for 16 years, vegan on and off throughout; as long as you eat a reasonably varied, healthy diet vegetarianism is not difficult, and the studies I've seen suggest better health outcomes than with meat-based diets (veganism may be less healthy, depending). Although industrial agriculture in general is a disaster, I think the science is pretty clear that a vegetarian diet is better environmentally given the food production systems our world uses, and that sustainable animal agriculture would require vastly decreased meat consumption.

 

Everyone's physiology and nutritional needs are different, so everyone has to find what works for them - but, if you find you do need animal protein, eggs and dairy are not nearly as destructive environmentally as eating poultry and livestock.

[Moonless]

Although it was a tangent, I don't think you should be worried about going vegetarian. I've been strictly vegetarian for 16 years, vegan on and off throughout; as long as you eat a reasonably varied, healthy diet vegetarianism is not difficult, and the studies I've seen suggest better health outcomes than with meat-based diets (veganism may be less healthy, depending). Although industrial agriculture in general is a disaster, I think the science is pretty clear that a vegetarian diet is better environmentally given the food production systems our world uses, and that sustainable animal agriculture would require vastly decreased meat consumption.

 

Everyone's physiology and nutritional needs are different, so everyone has to find what works for them - but, if you find you do need animal protein, eggs and dairy are not nearly as destructive environmentally as eating poultry and livestock.

To add onto this, the various common deficiencies that people experience are vitamin D, B12, Zinc, Iron and Omega 3. Fortunately these are all available in vegan sources and the vegan sources are generally more rich and healthy to their animal counterparts.

 

For vitamin D, the sun vitamin, mushrooms are rich if one finds oneself in a wintertime vitamin D deficiency.

 

B12 is the most difficult one to get. Thankfully many consumer products are supplemented with this vitamin. These products include milks, cereal and nutritional yeast. Vitamin B12 actually stays in the body for a long time (months) so its not important to be super conscious of eating enough of it as if we take supplemented food or vitamin once and awhile this doesn't become a problem.

 

Omega 3 is found in seed oil like flaxseed oil. Flax seeds are super good for us.

 

Zinc and Iron are found greatly in leafy greens.

 

Of course if people don't eat natural foods and only processed foods a vegan diet is pretty bad, however I just wanted to reply to some of the concerns people have about having a plant based diet.

[RutgerHauer]

[Direct Link]

 

 

[Direct Link]

Edited by coorsmikey, 19 January 2020 - 10:31 AM.
Post left blank for the shenanigans

[Guy1298]

Rutger, thanks for the suggestions with regard to micro dosing.

I suppose I got pretty set in my ways last time I did it. Well, I remember a pperiod of time when I was microdosing too often and too much, but this was before I realized I needed a much smaller amount. I remember that time being very difficult. Until I realized it was just made up bullshit in relation to over-microdosing. Minds are good at making shit out of nothing.

[Moonless]

@Moonless: have you heard of the term bio-availability? Why do you think animal products are a less healthy and rich option? Please don't say fat.

 

While it is true that some vitamins from plants are less bio-available than the animal vitamins, vitamin A is the most prominent example used by people arguing against a vegan diet however one carrot has 157% of vitamin A, and a 3 oz cow beef has 37% Vitamin A. Even with the 7 time higher bioavailability of Vitamin A in animals doesn't make it a better source because you have to eat much more calories from meat to attain this.

 

So when I said better I means more vitamins per amount of energy you have to eat. This is why health people advise having a varied plate of vegtable with every meal: to supply the vitamins.

 

This is not to say that meat and the animal products from animals you can't live healthy life, rather that plants have more options that are vitamin and mineral rich (vitamin absorption per calorie) while animal products have fewer.

 

Here is a summery from a peer reviewed study published in clinical nutrition:

 

SUMMARY

Vegans are thinner, have lower serum cholesterol and blood pressure, and enjoy a lower risk of CVD. BMD and the risk of bone fracture may be a concern when there is an inadequate intake of calcium and vitamin D. Where available, calcium- and vitamin D–fortified foods should be regularly consumed. There is a need for more studies on the relation between vegan diets and risk of cancer, diabetes, and osteoporosis. Vitamin B-12 deficiency is a potential problem for vegans, so that the use of vitamin B-12–fortified foods or supplements are essential. To optimize the n-3 fatty acid status of vegans, foods rich in ALA, DHA-fortified foods, or DHA supplements should be regularly consumed. Vegans generally have an adequate iron intake and do not experience anemia more frequently than others. Typically, vegans can avoid nutritional problems if appropriate food choices are made. Their health status appears to be at least as good as other vegetarians, such as lactoovovegetarians. (Other articles in this supplement to the Journal include references 83–109.)

The author had no financial disclosures to report.

[RutgerHauer]

I was afraid I was too late on deleting my comment. I wanted to retract the comment because this is not the place to have such a discussion.

 

By the way, I am very lean and eat as much fat as possible. Not that I need to defend myself, but just showing that the study you refer to isn't comparing vegans to carnivores. What is it comparing to? Don't answer me - not the place to keep this going.

 

 

@ Guy1298: I can understand your thinking on this issue very well. A difficult experience like that can make you reluctant to try it again. It might be that microdosing on a low dose that is right for you can be done more regularly like one day on, two days off - or five days on, two days off.. Those are the two cycles I know of. Maybe someone else can share their ideas on what rhythm works well for them with microdosing. I bet there are no rules to follow and you can just find out what works best for you. I think it is important to keep a rhythm going if you decide to do something like that.

Edited by RutgerHauer, 17 January 2020 - 06:15 PM.

[Alder Logs]

I think some of those guy's are juicing more than oranges, if ya know what I mean 

I got my copy of The Game Changers today.  It turns out that the many champion competitors, setting worlds records and winning championships have to prove they are not juicing at nearly every turn, and in some cases, must give blood, urine, and even do polygraphs.  Maybe their being vegan hides the juicing from tests and makes them into world class liars who can beat the machine. 

 

I am going to buy a bunch of those DVDs and hand them out.  The movie documents facts and shows case studies of these champions and doesn't get preachy.  I know that I feel great and don't need convincing, and the diet I got from my doctor is a lot tougher than what's shown in the movie.  He took me off all fried foods, gluten, and any but naturally occurring sugars in fruits and vegetables, even including dried fruits.  In the movie, just getting off animal proteins was shown to make an instant difference in blood tests.    

Edited by Alder Logs, 19 January 2020 - 12:15 AM.