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Casing question


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#1 Aur

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 10:23 AM

I have been going through the vaults and hope that I understand the basic principles for casing, but since english is my second language I struggle to understand some things that Hippie wrote about in this one: https://mycotopia.ne...nning-strategy/

 

"Now the casings here are but just 2 half pints, that have been crumbled in the bag from the outside (it works slick!) into nickel sized chunks. Once the cakes have been crumbled I like to let them sit overnight to recoup so any exposed areas will be covered"

 

- what has been crumbled in the bag from the outside?

 

The other topic that looks good enough for me is: https://mycotopia.ne...oir-casing-tek/

 

but both topics are 14 years old, and all this knowledge evolves and grows with time

 

anybody have maybe some better thread for me to learn from?

 

thanks a lot!!

 



#2 PJammer24

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 11:25 AM

I think this thread is a little misleading... He is describing how he crumbled up two colonized PF Tek style cakes... Those cakes are spawn and substrate all in one... A casing layer would be a mixture of coir/verm, Peat with a little lime and verm, or other casing layer like straight verm... I think 50/50 as he describes his casing layer is peat mixed 50/50 with something else but I am not entirely certain. I believe I have ready about 50/50 casing mixes in the past and remember it describing a peat method but could be mistaken... 50/50 casing mix could also be a coir/verm mix...

 

I think the old hipster typed the wrong word when he said "casing" in the excerpt you posted... I can see why you would have found it confusing

 

I don't using a casing layer with my bulk substrates. I have in the past but have not found it to be necessary as it does not improve my results... The verm you roll onto PF cakes is essentially a casing layer.


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#3 coorsmikey

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 12:06 PM

 

 

"Now the casings here are but just 2 half pints, that have been crumbled in the bag from the outside (it works slick!) into nickel sized chunks. Once the cakes have been crumbled I like to let them sit overnight to recoup so any exposed areas will be covered"

 

- what has been crumbled in the bag from the outside?

 

 

 

What is being crumbled is 2 half pint BRF Cakes or PF style in a resealable bag. In short, the cakes are crumbled then put in a tray with a "Casing" layer applied to the surface.


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#4 Aur

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 05:20 PM

I think this thread is a little misleading... He is describing how he crumbled up two colonized PF Tek style cakes... Those cakes are spawn and substrate all in one... A casing layer would be a mixture of coir/verm, Peat with a little lime and verm, or other casing layer like straight verm... I think 50/50 as he describes his casing layer is peat mixed 50/50 with something else but I am not entirely certain. I believe I have ready about 50/50 casing mixes in the past and remember it describing a peat method but could be mistaken... 50/50 casing mix could also be a coir/verm mix...

I think the old hipster typed the wrong word when he said "casing" in the excerpt you posted... I can see why you would have found it confusing

I don't using a casing layer with my bulk substrates. I have in the past but have not found it to be necessary as it does not improve my results... The verm you roll onto PF cakes is essentially a casing layer.

thank you for clearing that for me, both of you.

I just feel that I am not getting max from my trays so I was looking at the casing as the help I need, but I guess I need deeper understanding of the pinning and fruiting process, and I guess I shouldn't be stoned all the time while working with my babies :) .
I have 17 trays ready to (as you say 'birth') so I will have to dive into the vaults even more, but will case few of them just to see what will happen. <3

Edited by Aur, 28 January 2020 - 05:22 PM.

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#5 DocOct

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 06:10 PM

If you are looking to increase yeald, then look into laymixing along with a casing. As well as getting into cloning/isolating so your mycelium can be a monoculture as to allow for better efficient use of substraight.
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#6 Aur

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Posted 29 January 2020 - 04:20 AM

If you are looking to increase yeald, then look into laymixing along with a casing. As well as getting into cloning/isolating so your mycelium can be a monoculture as to allow for better efficient use of substraight.

working on it:

IMG_20200129_101350.jpg

... will have to learn what is laymixing ... thnx
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#7 RutgerHauer

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Posted 29 January 2020 - 04:58 AM

I'm not sure what laymixing is either. Do you mean, layering the spawn/substrate vs. doing a complete mix?



#8 Aur

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Posted 29 January 2020 - 09:08 AM

I'm not sure what laymixing is either. Do you mean, layering the spawn/substrate vs. doing a complete mix?


https://mycotopia.ne...x-or-laymixing/
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#9 RutgerHauer

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Posted 29 January 2020 - 09:33 AM

Okay so yeah, spawn in layers. (what an extremely long post to explain that)

 

I have read several times that it is an outdated method and doesn't make any significant difference.



#10 PJammer24

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Posted 29 January 2020 - 09:36 AM

If you are looking to increase yeald, then look into laymixing along with a casing. As well as getting into cloning/isolating so your mycelium can be a monoculture as to allow for better efficient use of substraight.

 

laymixing? I am not sure what you mean. I am of the opinion that mixing your spawn into the substrate rather than layering is preferred... Due to there being more inoculation points throughout the mix, the substrate will colonize more quickly... There shouldn't be an impact on yield by using one method over the other... I really don't know what you were referring to with that term so I could be way off base...



#11 PJammer24

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Posted 29 January 2020 - 10:03 AM

 

If you are looking to increase yeald, then look into laymixing along with a casing. As well as getting into cloning/isolating so your mycelium can be a monoculture as to allow for better efficient use of substraight.

working on it:

(computer slowing, photo resulting in my reply post failing to save WAS here...)

... will have to learn what is laymixing ... thnx

 

&&0){for(var>)throw>

 

That plate looks really nice! Great, Ropey, Rhizomorphic growth!! Isolating aggressive genetics that fruit prolifically is the best way to increase yields... You will nearly eliminate aborts and should produce better flushes... As you progress into later flushes, your risk of contamination rises and some type of bacteria eventually gets its groove on in there despite not being able to see it... Getting FULL flushes from the start allows you to get your yield early rather than having to continue into later flushes with a higher concentration of competitors as you progress... In theory, I view it that your colony of mycelium is going to use the nutrients available. You could potentially get the same yield with a less aggressive strain that produces fewer fruit bodies with each flush but since it may take additional flushes, the mycelium begins to weaken due to competitors which are increasing with each passing day. That additional time results in drained nutrients from stressed myc that is fighting contamination and begins to be drained by the contaminates themselves... Because of this, you want to get your yield early since proceeding into additional flushes has complications which multiply with each additional flush. Commercial mushroom farmers would also want more prolific flushes early because time is money and the sooner they can get their yield from a block, the sooner they can start fruiting a new block in its place...


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#12 DocOct

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Posted 29 January 2020 - 06:14 PM

If you are looking to increase yeald, then look into laymixing along with a casing. As well as getting into cloning/isolating so your mycelium can be a monoculture as to allow for better efficient use of substraight.


laymixing? I am not sure what you mean. I am of the opinion that mixing your spawn into the substrate rather than layering is preferred... Due to there being more inoculation points throughout the mix, the substrate will colonize more quickly... There shouldn't be an impact on yield by using one method over the other... I really don't know what you were referring to with that term so I could be way off base...
laymixing is kind of a misnomer, it’s should be called Mixlaying.

First you mix as normal, then add a thin layer of grain(half inch to whole inch) then you case, colonize, consolidate, etc etc etc. I’ve done a side by side grow log to further fahtsters post back in 17 with a clone isolate of the alcabenzi strain to keep consistency in the experiment, I had a 30 percent increase to my yield with equivalent spawn the sub ratios.

It’s an effective method.
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#13 Fungi2b

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Posted 02 February 2020 - 03:58 PM

I read in a lot of places that a casing layer is optional for cubes. This is true buut, I really do not recommend it at all. The case layer goes along way to protect your spawn from tams and from drying out. I have got way more outta my grows using a case layer, just a simple 50/50 verm and coir works great.

#14 PJammer24

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Posted 03 February 2020 - 12:02 PM

I read in a lot of places that a casing layer is optional for cubes. This is true buut, I really do not recommend it at all. The case layer goes along way to protect your spawn from tams and from drying out. I have got way more outta my grows using a case layer, just a simple 50/50 verm and coir works great.

When using a bulk substrate, there is very little risk of contamination of you pasteurize properly and have healthy spawn added at a proper ratio... If you are having better results with a casing layer, it is most likely a product of your not being able to keep optimal conditions (humidity mainly) when not using a casing layer... I have great results and I never use a casing layer... I use bags almost exclusively and it is easier to keep proper humidity in smaller bags than i is in large tubs...

 

I believe that you are getting better results with your casing layers but it really isn't doing much to ward of contamination.

 

I don't know how much very you are using in your substrate or how thick your substrate is... BUT... Thicker substrates that retain more water will result in a more humid environment and may make the casing layer less necessary. I also provide FAE more than most people with my tubs... When you consider the respiration rate, I am of the opinion that the FA is not exhausted quickly... If you have a few holes for GE and you fan one (maybe twice) each day, you should have plenty of )2 in your tub to maintain fruit development and you will be maintaining a higher humidity by not replacing the humid air with dry air from the tubs exterior as often.



#15 Aur

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Posted 04 February 2020 - 04:06 AM

I use bags almost exclusively and it is easier to keep proper humidity in smaller bags than i is in large tubs...
 

what do you mean by that?

#16 Fungi2b

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Posted 04 February 2020 - 02:41 PM

I read in a lot of places that a casing layer is optional for cubes. This is true buut, I really do not recommend it at all. The case layer goes along way to protect your spawn from tams and from drying out. I have got way more outta my grows using a case layer, just a simple 50/50 verm and coir works great.


When using a bulk substrate, there is very little risk of contamination of you pasteurize properly and have healthy spawn added at a proper ratio... If you are having better results with a casing layer, it is most likely a product of your not being able to keep optimal conditions (humidity mainly) when not using a casing layer... I have great results and I never use a casing layer... I use bags almost exclusively and it is easier to keep proper humidity in smaller bags than i is in large tubs...
 
I believe that you are getting better results with your casing layers but it really isn't doing much to ward of contamination.
 
I don't know how much very you are using in your substrate or how thick your substrate is... BUT... Thicker substrates that retain more water will result in a more humid environment and may make the casing layer less necessary. I also provide FAE more than most people with my tubs... When you consider the respiration rate, I am of the opinion that the FA is not exhausted quickly... If you have a few holes for GE and you fan one (maybe twice) each day, you should have plenty of )2 in your tub to maintain fruit development and you will be maintaining a higher humidity by not replacing the humid air with dry air from the tubs exterior as often.

I do have issues with humidity, I never tried a side by side grow to compare case to not cased. I'm just going by my experience and since using case my grows got a lot better and cleaner. Maybe if I can learn to leave them alone I wouldn't need a case layer.
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#17 Aur

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Posted 04 February 2020 - 06:40 PM

cased my first 4 trays and laymixed one clone, so fingers crossed. have 10 more from the same source (not cased) so will be able to compare ... now will have to learn this watering thing.

Nobody told me that the case layer is soooo soft ... wish I could case myself before going to sleep :/
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#18 Aur

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Posted 04 February 2020 - 07:05 PM

cased (3/4 inch):

IMG_20200205_005221.jpg

not cased:

IMG_20200205_005436.jpg

never had them so rizo ... this will be interesting ...
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#19 Aur

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Posted 04 February 2020 - 07:07 PM

so, should I leave cased alone for a few days, or should I spray them a bit every day?
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#20 Ripples

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Posted 04 February 2020 - 07:11 PM

so, should I leave cased alone for a few days, or should I spray them a bit every day?

 

With tubs like those I feel like you're just asking to see who is paying attention. If I could grow tubs like I wouldn't be asking for advice but I sure would offer it.


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