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Scars or Birthmarks on Stems?


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#1 Jrotten

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 10:20 PM

Has anyone seen this before? I searched and found nothing. It almost looks like the stem split and then healed dark? I picked the first volunteer and it had something similar without the darkness. It’s not on everything but is on at least half. It’s the first flush of a first tub that started MS then expanded once G2G. Sub is CMC/coir/verm/gypsum. It doesn’t seem to affect the growth at all. The original MS was 5 jars, two were spawned and this one was expanded. I’ve never seen anything like it.

I am experimenting with an automated setup that keeps RH right around 90% temp at 77 and a full FAE every 10 minutes. I have misted heavily the last two days when Pina were already formed.

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Edited by Jrotten, 06 February 2020 - 10:21 PM.


#2 pastyoureyes

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 11:36 PM

Looks like verticillium.

#3 Jrotten

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Posted 07 February 2020 - 12:51 AM

Looks like verticillium.

is it just the stripes that make you say that or something else? Everything in this FC right now grows sideways because it is too much direct light 24/7. I have managed to grow them straight down then curve straight up so they make a “U”.

#4 RutgerHauer

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Posted 07 February 2020 - 02:48 AM

It does look like it. The stripes and also what looks like necrotic tissue on the caps.

 

Could be a mild case of verticillium where it got infected at a later stage. If it had been infected sooner it would have shown full blown characteristics of vert like weird deformities, shrooms growing inside the substrate.. Those stripes are usually the beginnings of split stems if they develop further, so not split stems that have healed like you assume.

 

I must say I have misjudged mushrooms before that just had brown spots/striped perhaps because of water that has dropped on them from the lid of the FC, but it looks to me that something more is going on.

 

 

You can read a comprehensive description of verticillium on wiki so you can make a judgement about it yourself:

https://en.wikipedia...lium_dry_bubble

 

If you yourself can be sure that it is verticillium, then pick every infected fruit, as soon as you recognize it - because vert only infects the fruiting body. That way you can hope it doesn't spread and a next flush will perhaps be verticillium free.


Edited by RutgerHauer, 07 February 2020 - 05:48 AM.

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#5 onediadem

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Posted 07 February 2020 - 03:35 AM

I have seen that when the sub was super moist/wet, promoting too much water uptake by the mushrooms themselves. The stems look striped and scaly.


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#6 Jrotten

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Posted 07 February 2020 - 10:10 AM

After letting it go overnight and reading up it likely is verticillium. There is a fruit that has grown virtually sideways from the substrate. A few have the really fat base becoming more slender. Fruits generally look very good otherwise and are going to be decent sized and plentiful when I harvest later. No veils breaking just yet.

I cased these late and did just a couple of 5 minute (30 minutes apart) runs in the microwave to pasteurize. Temps reached 180 but didn’t stay very high for very long I’m sure. I normally do a longer water bath pasteurization. Could introducing the vert in just the last few days be enough time for the verticillium to do it’s thing? My thinking is it was either in the coir or the verm and the microwave experiment just didn’t do a great job.

#7 PJammer24

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Posted 07 February 2020 - 10:11 AM

I was going to say that I have had striping like that without having any other indications of vert... I am pretty sure that there are other conditions that lead to striping on the stipes. What ODD is saying makes sense regarding the moisture content... I eyeball the verm I use so there is a chance that the different ratios may lead to over hydration. I typically see it across the board when it happens...



#8 Jrotten

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Posted 07 February 2020 - 11:12 AM

I was going to say that I have had striping like that without having any other indications of vert... I am pretty sure that there are other conditions that lead to striping on the stipes. What ODD is saying makes sense regarding the moisture content... I eyeball the verm I use so there is a chance that the different ratios may lead to over hydration. I typically see it across the board when it happens...

This is definitely a possibility too.  I have another tray that was cased at the same time but hadn't formed any pins yet as a I was experimenting a bit with sub depth and spawning ratios.  If it was the casing and it's verticillum I should definitely see bigger issues in the next tray.  I also eyeball



#9 Jrotten

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Posted 07 February 2020 - 06:23 PM

Defintiely verticillium. Thank y’all for the help. Pulled 396 wet off the first flush. Sub is still really wet. Had some mutants and some pretty ones but overall they are large and will serve their purpose well.

#10 pastyoureyes

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Posted 07 February 2020 - 06:33 PM

What size tub is this?

#11 Jrotten

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Posted 08 February 2020 - 01:29 AM

Shoebox tote basically. 6qt I think sub around 3” cmc/verm/coir/gypsum. I just let the sidepins go which were outrageous

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#12 pastyoureyes

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Posted 08 February 2020 - 04:40 AM

Lokk like some type of martha setup?

#13 Jrotten

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Posted 08 February 2020 - 05:38 AM

It’s much smaller than that but yes. I just made a lot of changes and I’m experimenting with everything right now while I have some pans colonizing hoping to get fruits,

#14 Jrotten

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 10:48 PM

I just wanted to update this thread and say I think I got it figured out with the help of Wharfrat and it is bacterial blotch that we’re looking at here. It affects quality and quantity of fruits apparently, but that’s aesthetics and second flushes from reading. So far first flushes of these trays are the best I’ve ever had. I’m curious to see what happens on the second flushes.

#15 Fungi2b

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Posted 11 February 2020 - 02:15 AM

U said it's a auto setup and fanned every 10 mins? R those mush closest to the fan? It looks like the outer layer of the stipe got dry and split as it grew. Just my 2 cents.
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#16 Jrotten

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Posted 11 February 2020 - 11:10 AM

After studying it a bit, I used a short microwave pasteurization for the casing. I’m 90% sure that was the issue combined with intentionally experimenting with wet subs.

The bacteria that causes blotch is pretty tough and needs a longer pasteurization at the higher end of temps to be effective. At least on commercial farms they say the bacteria is always present and it’s the number of bacteria and the failure to fully dry the mushrooms that causes problems.

I had turned my internal air circulation way down while I experimented with subs directly on the shelves. The system is sort of positive pressure so there isn’t much in the way of a dry or wet area in the FC in regards to incoming fresh air or humidity. The internal fans can lead to drier areas if they aren’t dialed in.

#17 Fungi2b

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Posted 11 February 2020 - 03:15 PM

May I ask what it smells like? Does it have a high sweet smell or a fishy smell? Or a kinda hospital antiseptic smell? I generally associate those 3 smells with bad jars and bad grows. It should smell....well like earth and mushies.

#18 Jrotten

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Posted 11 February 2020 - 04:41 PM

It smells like cubes. They are fine to eat. I have already tried them. They dry well. They throw out a first flush like you wouldn’t believe. The second 6qt shoebox 3” deep threw 611g wet last night that dried to 50g. I’m assuming the blotch triggers the mycelium to fruit as fast as possible.

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#19 Fungi2b

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Posted 11 February 2020 - 04:47 PM

Fap

Wish I wasn't outta likes already.....I better start getting stingy with them

Edited by Fungi2b, 11 February 2020 - 04:48 PM.


#20 Jrotten

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Posted 11 February 2020 - 05:08 PM

Fap
Wish I wasn't outta likes already.....I better start getting stingy with them

LOL! It was interesting. What the internet says about blotch is it affects “fruit quality and yield” and goes on to mention heavy pinsets.

That seems accurate. At this point I’m just letting them go to see what happens. It’s an interesting experiment and I pulled piece of myc and threw it on agar in about the dirtiest way possible.the hope is that I get enough growth from the tissue that can at least see a colony of the contam before the whole plate blooms




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