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Trillions of intersecting three-dimensional planes


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#1 mnemosyne

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Posted 11 February 2020 - 05:21 AM

I have found countless similarities between what some entheogenic explorers encounter in their travels and what is written in a book entitled Zhuan Falun.

 

( Book can be downloaded here: https://falundafa.or...-Falun-2018.pdf )

 

Here are some quotes from Master Li Hongzhi (the author of Zhuan Falun) from some of his Buddha Law Lectures that sounded very similar to what some psychonauts unveil in their journey's:

 

  • .."What I am talking about is the simplest form of dimensional existence. All physical substances of our mankind, including all substances that you cannot see in the air as well as those substances that we can see such as iron, cement, animals, plants, matter, and the human body, are composed of molecules. Mankind just exists on this plane of molecules, just like a 3-D painting. You live on this plane and you cannot escape it. Mankind’s science is also limited within this one dimension which it cannot even break through..."

 

  • "..So then how enormous do you think their cosmic bodies are?! What I have told you is an explanation from within one system, and the degree of complexity is simply beyond words. And it can’t be illustrated by drawings either, because the complexity of the structure is beyond what trillions of intersecting three-dimensional planes could illustrate, so it is very hard to explain it to you clearly.”

 

  • “You all know that “universe” is defined by humans. Exactly how large is the universe? Humans can’t explain exactly. The universe we usually refer to is only the cosmic expanse that we see. The largest expanse that modern scientists can observe using telescopes doesn’t exceed this small universe of ours. So put simply, this is what “universe” refers to. Yet this small universe of ours is not even one trillionth of the great cosmos. It’s within this tiny, tiny realm, which is one trillionth of one trillionth of the great cosmos. It’s only a speck of dust within a speck of dust, which is another speck of dust within a speck of dust—that’s how miniscule it is. The entire great cosmos is in motion, and the cosmic bodies of a great expanse are in motion. Wouldn’t you say that the universe is in motion? This motion brings about lives and creates species. Cultivators call this motion “evolution.” The human mind can’t comprehend things at that high a level. This cosmos is so vast that even when you reach the highest level of your cultivation at the time of Consummation, you’ll still find it incredibly vast and will exclaim with awe.”

 

  • "...I previously explained to you the concept of the universe, and how multiple Milky Ways make up one expanse of it. That expanse is what we refer to as a small universe. It takes hundreds of millions of universes such as this to make up a universe of the second layer. As for how massive the cosmos ultimately is, suppose we considered a massive universe that consists of a trillion layers to be one domain, and then grouped a trillion of these one-trillion-layer domains together—we could then call this trillion one-trillion-layered domains a particle of air. Such particles permeate the conference hall here. Although that amounts to a massive number of universes, this is still but a small, insignificant particle in just one dimension of the universe. When I arrived at the end while doing Fa-rectification (Law Rectification), I saw that the form of beings was not something the beings below would be capable of understanding anymore; as the Fa’s principles ascended, there would be simply no way for gods at lower planes to understand them. When I arrived at that realm and its state, I ultimately discovered that it too was but one particle of dust in the cosmos.”

 

  • “The boundless, measureless dimensions all have their own times, and the differences among the times, and the number of times, are also boundless and measureless, and that's what has caused the huge differences among the times in different dimensions. While the wave of the hand takes place, in some places it's almost in sync, while in some places decades, centuries, millennia, or tens of thousands of years have passed, and in other places some hundreds of millions of years, or even millions of millions of years, or some boundless and measureless amount of time has passed.”


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#2 TVCasualty

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Posted 11 February 2020 - 02:18 PM

Apologies in advance for the following pile of words. Long-time members of this site know that I can't help it when it comes to certain subjects.

 

 

I've looked into Falun Gong/ Falun Dafa since China made it such a big deal by banning it (I like to explore banned things since they often reveal a lot about those who enact bans), and from what I can tell it's a syncretic belief system that has some peculiar similarities to Scientology (specifically the aliens; wtf?) and a few troubling aspects of regular old religions (e.g. that sex outside of marriage is "immoral" and that you can meditate the gay away, among other peculiar claims that sure ain't "woke," ironically).

 

Whenever someone reshuffles ancient teachings and adds new elements in order to renew their relevance as society changes and scientific knowledge advances (e.g., Falun Gong is into atomic theory and nuclear physics, sort of), it always seems to be the case that the final product involves some guy at the top of what sure looks like a pyramid, same as it ever was. It's odd that such "new" insights are not published anonymously, assuming Ego is framed as something problematic by the teachings they were drawn from.

 

 

Evolution is misrepresented within that Belief System to a degree that is disingenuous and only compelling to those who don't understand how the scientific process works in the context of the Theory of Evolution, but then that's common among quasi-religious Belief Systems and probably a factor in their continued existence (this is also the case for fundamentalist Christianity's take on Evolution, which is also either disingenuous or willfully ignorant and is only compelling to many because they don't actually understand the Theory at all).

 

Hinduism is similar in that it has a lot of aspects of it that sound uncannily like Quantum Mechanics and things we've learned about time and such that could only have been intuited or envisioned rather than perceived back when Hinduism was created since its creators lacked the instruments needed to directly observe what we now know to be the case (like how the Universe is pretty darned old, and really big, and may even be involved in multi-trillion year cycles if it bounces instead of bangs, plus some other stuff that's only deepened the mystery of wtf is really going on).

 

 

 

I guess I'm always "that guy"  :rolleyes:  about this stuff because as far as I can tell, I can read all the same books that anyone who cuts and pastes their own Belief System together has read and come to my own conclusions about them and their relevance, and I can induce my own direct experiences of expanded awareness and draw my own conclusions about what they mean, too.

 

 

 

So can anyone else, and I don't see why the conclusions of someone who happened to write their conclusions down are any more valid or compelling than the conclusions that any one of us would come to by seeking our own knowledge and direct experience, directly. And when groups of seekers or psychonauts get together and compare notes, greater insights can be gained and everyone can advance more quickly in their awareness and understanding (case in point: Mycotopia) but there doesn't need to be any actual Belief System involved at all, and adopting one may even inhibit one's progress.

 

It's why Mycotopia has a Mission Statement of guiding principles, but no statements dictating what we should all believe if we wish to be a member of this site, or how a good and morally-upstanding Mycotopiate must live their life.

 

I imagine that religions and quasi-religions continue to exist in modern society because most people seem to be disinclined to explore this stuff on their own time and do their own reading (or seek their own direct experience) and instead prefer a neatly packaged set of compelling-sounding, simple answers that they can grok in their spare time.

 

But the danger with this approach is falling under the influence of a Jim Jones-type of charismatic psychopath (a worst-case scenario, but not uncommon) who says all the right things and the unquestioning flock often eventually ends up regretting the abdication of their own minds and critical thinking skills but only after it's too late to matter and they're drinking their kool-aid at gunpoint. Mr. Bikram the yoga predator also comes to mind as a relatively mild example and the NXIVM multi-level marketing sex-slave cult is somewhere in between. Granted, the founder of a new cult, err I mean religion might be a great guy and well-meaning, but what of the next generation of its leaders?

 

 

I suppose I'm proselytizing for the Church of Higher Doses More Often, and if my not-really-a-religion ever gains cultural dominance (or at least acceptance) then no one will be in charge of it, leading it, dictating our dosages and settings within it, telling us how the Universe really works (with no actual evidence), or preaching the "correct" lifestyle that everyone must adopt because of it. So I'm not criticizing Falun Gong per se (much), I'm criticizing the paradigm that makes it and similar arbitrary and often-problematic Belief Systems possible.

 

There are many "babies" to be found in the proverbial bathwater of ancient (and some modern) teachings, and IMO this particular Belief System removes a lot of those well-known babies from the ancient 'bathwater' and drops them into modern 'bathwater' instead.


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#3 Thacan

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Posted 11 February 2020 - 02:48 PM

As I read the Zhuan Falun quotes, I could swear that Carl Sagan said the same thing in 'Cosmos'.

 

Apologies in advance for the following pile of words. Long-time members of this site know that I can't help it when it comes to certain subjects.

 

And it's fun to read your musings.


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#4 mnemosyne

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 12:31 AM

I've looked into Falun Gong/ Falun Dafa since China made it such a big deal by banning it (I like to explore banned things since they often reveal a lot about those who enact bans), and from what I can tell it's a syncretic belief system that has some peculiar similarities to Scientology (specifically the aliens; wtf?) and a few troubling aspects of regular old religions (e.g. that sex outside of marriage is "immoral" and that you can meditate the gay away, among other peculiar claims that sure ain't "woke," ironically).

 

 

Falun Dafa isn't like Scientology. No money is involved, there's no central structure and people come and go as they please, people just practice a set of powerful QiGong exercises and try to live by the precepts of Truthfulness, Compassion and Forbearance which are the core tenets of the practice. Also it respects free will, whether you wish to practice or not is up to you. From Zhuan Falun:

 

excerpt 1:

 

"Here we’re teaching you to take the right path, and along with that, we’re teaching you the Law inside and out and encouraging you to have your own understanding of it, but it’s still up to you whether you decide to learn it. "The master leads you through the door, but cultivation is up to you. Nobody’s going to push you to cultivate. It’s up to you whether you cultivate. Or to put it another way, when you choose your own path, when you decide what you want, or when you’re trying to get something—nobody will stop you. They can only try to kindly persuade you"

 

excerpt 2:

 

"I’m not saying you have to learn my Falun Dafa, but I can say that what I’m doing is sharing some principles with you. If you want to cultivate you have to commit to one discipline, or else you won’t be able to cultivate one bit. Of course, if you don’t want to cultivate we’ll leave you alone. The Law is meant to be heard by people who really cultivate."

 

 

Expounding on the Alien Phenomena, Master Li Hongzhi (the founder of Falun Dafa) spoke about this topic in an interview with Time Asia, a very interesting interview:

 

http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2053761,00.html

 

It's true, in Falun Dafa they believe that homosexuality is a sin. Many upright cultivation schools believe this to be so however.

 

 

Whenever someone reshuffles ancient teachings and adds new elements in order to renew their relevance as society changes and scientific knowledge advances (e.g., Falun Gong is into atomic theory and nuclear physics, sort of), it always seems to be the case that the final product involves some guy at the top of what sure looks like a pyramid, same as it ever was. It's odd that such "new" insights are not published anonymously, assuming Ego is framed as something problematic by the teachings they were drawn from.

 

 

Falun Dafa is a very ancient practice, only recently has it been given to the secular world as it used to be passed down in secret. To understand just how ancient this practice Truly is, there is a section in Zhuan Falun entitled 'Qigong Is Part of Prehistoric Culture' which expounds on this matter.

 

A short excerpt that touches on this point:

 

"Our Falun Dafa is one of the Buddhist system’s 84,000 disciplines. It’s never been passed on to the general public before during this period of civilization, but it did once save people on a large scale in a prehistoric age. Today I’m spreading it again widely during this final period of the kalpa’s end, so it’s just extremely precious."

 

 

Evolution is misrepresented within that Belief System to a degree that is disingenuous and only compelling to those who don't understand how the scientific process works in the context of the Theory of Evolution, but then that's common among quasi-religious Belief Systems and probably a factor in their continued existence (this is also the case for fundamentalist Christianity's take on Evolution, which is also either disingenuous or willfully ignorant and is only compelling to many because they don't actually understand the Theory at all).

 

 

Evolution is a hoax. Humans didn’t come from evolution whatsoever. When Darwin presented his theory of evolution it was full of holes, with the biggest flaw being the lack of the intermediate periods of evolution from ape to man and from paleo lives to modern lives—they’re missing not just for humans, but for other lives and animals as well. Not a single transitional fossil has been discovered. How can that be explained?

 

Furthermore Micheal Behe's scientific work proves conclusively that evolution is completely wrong:

 

[Direct Link]

 

Hinduism is similar in that it has a lot of aspects of it that sound uncannily like Quantum Mechanics and things we've learned about time and such that could only have been intuited or envisioned rather than perceived back when Hinduism was created since its creators lacked the instruments needed to directly observe what we now know to be the case (like how the Universe is pretty darned old, and really big, and may even be involved in multi-trillion year cycles if it bounces instead of bangs, plus some other stuff that's only deepened the mystery of wtf is really going on).

 

 

Falun Dafa is a science, a higher science than what our current Western scientific paradigm has come to understand about life, the human body and the universe. Take a read of this, it compares our current scientific path of development to Buddha Law:

 

https://en.falundafa.org/eng/html/zfl2/zfl2.htm#8

 

From Zhuan Falun this is also talked about:

 

1.)

 

"When we mention certain things some people blurt right out, "blind belief." Why do they do that? Their criteria for something being "blind belief" or "quackery" is that it’s whatever science hasn’t grasped, or whatever they haven’t experienced first-hand, or whatever they think can’t possibly exist. That’s their way of thinking. So is that way of thinking correct? Can you just dismiss something as blind belief or quackery just because science hasn’t grasped it yet, or just because science isn’t far enough along to explain it yet? Aren’t these people themselves full of blind belief? And aren’t they caught up in quackery?

 

If everybody thought that way, could science develop? Could it move forward? Society wouldn’t be able to make progress.The things that our scientific and technological community has invented are all things that people didn’t have at one time. If those things were all thought of as blind belief, then there’d be no point in talking about progress, right? Qigong isn’t quackery. But there are always a lot of people who think it is, since they don’t understand it.

 

But with the use of scientific instruments people have now detected on the bodies of qigong masters things like infrasonic waves, ultrasonic waves, electromagnetic waves, infrared, ultraviolet, gamma rays, neutrons, atoms, and trace metal elements. Aren’t those all concrete things? They’re matter. Aren’t all things made of matter? Aren’t other space-times made of matter? Could you call them blind belief? Qigong is for cultivating Buddhahood, so of course there are going to be a lot of profound things involved. And we’re going to explain all of them."

 

2.)

 

"Under the effect of a special electromagnetic field qigong masters can have strong luminescence, and it’s really beautiful. The higher a person’s potency, the larger the energy field he projects. Ordinary people have one too, but it’s a really weak kind of luminescence. People who do research in high-energy physics think of energy as being things like neutrons and atoms. A lot of qigong masters have been tested.

 

And all the qigong masters who are pretty well-known have been tested, in fact. I’ve been tested, too, and they found that I emit gamma rays and thermal neutrons 80–170 times greater than the radiation of normal matter. At that point the needle of the testing instrument had hit the limit, and since the needle had hit the maximum point they couldn’t tell exactly how strong it was. Imagine, neutrons that strong—it’s just incredible! How could a person emit neutrons that strong? This proves that we qigong masters do have gong, it proves we do have energy. It’s been verified by the scientific and technological community."


Edited by mnemosyne, 13 February 2020 - 12:42 AM.


#5 flashingrooster

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 09:35 AM

About as scientific as ghost hunters, throw out some electrical equipment and pretend that background radiation from a light bulb means something. More guys like below would be nice. We have enough that are trying to disprove scientific theories because they don't alight with what their little book said. 

 

[Direct Link]


Edited by flashingrooster, 13 February 2020 - 02:54 PM.


#6 Alder Logs

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 01:01 PM

I took George Carlin's advice and pray to Joe Pesci.  He's the guy who can get things done.


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#7 Alder Logs

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 01:16 PM

The thing within the eastern traditions of experience based - not knowing anything about Falun anything - such as Hinduism finding resonance with some quantum type ideas, for me, there is some very interesting historical stuff.   The two Theosophists, Annie Besant and C.W. Leadbeater, went to India and Tibet and studied some of the Yogic Sidhis, or conscious powers, and using them, described the structure of matter and its elements.  In long retrospect, it seems they saw atomic and subatomic structure before science really had an inkling about much of it.   They gave an accurate description of things like quarks at the turn of the last century.  They wrote it up and drew pictures that have stood the test of time.  It's pretty much ignored now, as it isn't going to make the news cycle that will keep us from ever catching up. 

 

In the long run, the fact will stand that no description of What Is is going to be What Is.  It will just be a description, period.  Again, I will post this from Nisargadatta Maharaj:

 

 

The discovery of truth is in the discernment of the false.
You can know what is not.

What is - you can only be.


Edited by Alder Logs, 13 February 2020 - 01:22 PM.

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#8 TVCasualty

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 11:24 AM

Evolution is a hoax. Humans didn’t come from evolution whatsoever. When Darwin presented his theory of evolution it was full of holes, with the biggest flaw being the lack of the intermediate periods of evolution from ape to man and from paleo lives to modern lives—they’re missing not just for humans, but for other lives and animals as well. Not a single transitional fossil has been discovered. How can that be explained?

 
 
With that statement it is clear that you do not understand the Theory of Evolution well enough to criticize it.
 
 
 

In long retrospect, it seems they saw atomic and subatomic structure before science really had an inkling about much of it.   They gave an accurate description of things like quarks at the turn of the last century.


I suspect that that's more common than we assume.

 

Einstein did it with light, and what he saw in his imagination allowed him to craft an equation that changed the world (and thanks to what it allowed us to build it threatened the continued existence of most life on this planet, too). Heck, I think I might have even done it once on Salvia since one Salvia trip in particular "showed" me stuff I've since read about in Quantum Physics journals. Einstein stood on a ray of light for his thought experiment while I accidentally fell into a Black Hole on mine (apparently). On another occasion with Salvia I could see my own thoughts forming as I was forming them so was able to see exactly how the mind uses sensory input and memory to craft our own unique response to whatever we're perceiving, and also why we can never have the same exact thought twice.


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#9 Alder Logs

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 11:58 AM

What Besant and Leadbeater saw, via the following of strict ancient disciplines (only their questions were current to their time), were to lead to descriptions of individual elements, those in the periodic table, and some not, that conformed with mathematical precision to actual elements yet to be understood as to their atomic weights.   They did it systematically over a long period of time.  Not just a peek at peak.  The work fell from grace in academic circles because, though there was a consistent relationship to the elements described, there was at the time (1920s) no one who could understand the ratios between experimental analysis and the Theosophists' work.  It wasn't until the 1960s that a UCLA physicist, who was also a Theosophist, reopened the study and came to a workable theory that fitted the constant, unvarying ratio.   What he figured out was what was in the 1907 book was a description of the quarks, and their relationships in each element, viewed as a diatomic molecule.  When Besant and Leadbeater were "viewing" each element in consciousness, they were seeing what was each element at the energy level, or in older terms of Earth, Water, Air, and Fire, at the fire level.  So, it would appear that when matter is taken all the way to its energetic state, when the so-called particles are pushed to pure energy, or as I might say, etheric motion, the natural state is to be a diatom. 

 

Okay, that's a trip, eh?






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