2210 replies to this topic

[Alder Logs]

 

Science is a self-correcting process (ideally)...

 

Yes, ideally.  As it is probably more likely in this age to be something along the lines of Litton Bionetics. 

 

It might be fun to search terms like: “litton bionetics” “congressional record” refractory.  You might find this:

 

The following is an exact transcription of the narrative in the Subcommittee of Appropriations held in July 1, 1969, which involved discussions about Synthetic Biological Agents.  From the Congressional Record:

 

“ There are two things about the biological agent field I would like to mention. One is the possibility of technological surprise. Molecular biology is a field that is advancing very rapidly and many eminent biologists believe that within a period of 5 – 10 years it would be possible to produce a synthetic biological agent, an agent that does not naturally exist and for which no natural immunity could have been acquired .”

 

Mr. Sikes: Are we doing any work in that field?

 

Dr. MacArthur: We are not.

 

Mr. Sikes: Why not? Lack of money or lack of interest?

 

Dr. MacArthur: Certainly not lack of interest.

 

Mr. Sikes: Would you provide for our record information on what would be required, what the advantages of such a program would be, the time and the cost involved?

 

Dr. MacArthur: We will be very happy to. The dramatic progress being made in the field of molecular biology led us to investigate the relevance of this field of science to biological warfare. A small group of experts considered this matter and provided the following observations:

 

1.    All biological agents up to the present time are representatives of naturally occurring disease, and are thus known by scientists throughout the world. They are easily available to qualified scientists for research, either for offensive or defensive purposes.

2.    Within the next 5 – 10 years, it would probably be possible to make a new infective microorganism which could differ in certain important aspects from any known disease-causing organisms. Most important of these is that it might be refractory to the immunological and therapeutic processes upon which we depend to maintain our relative freedom from infectious disease.

3.    A research program to explore the feasibility to this could be completed in approximately 5 years at a cost of $10 million.

 

 

======================

 

Just a few years after this, and with the private company now running what had been the army's biological research facilities at Ft. Detrick, MD, having received the requested funding, amazingly, some natives in deepest darkest Central Africa, doing some heathen practices in the jungle, caught AIDS from a green monkey.  It then escaped to New York, Chicago, San Francisco, and Los Angeles and into a national hepatitis program that would only accept promiscuous gay men.  So many coincidences that the mind boggles and reverts to the official story.

 

It's weird, but what just came into memory was newsreels from way back when showing the mass vaccination programs in Central Africa.   Then there were the numbers of cases of infections to point to AIDS having begun just there, after that green monkey had done whatever it did.   Durn monkey, making a case to doubt the official story.

Edited by Alder Logs, 17 February 2020 - 01:26 PM.

[TVCasualty]

I put that parenthetical caveat in there as an afterthought in anticipation of your reply. I'm open to any tools for assessing this kind of stuff that would work better than the scientific process. How the actual practice of science gets all messed up thanks to politics is a separate issue.

 

And bioweapons or manufactured virus are forms of technology, not science.

 

Incidentally, one thing that is not currently feasible with current tech and may not ever be feasible with any tech is the creation of a virus or bioagent that would lethal to most or all of a target population but would not affect or harm a different population, or even a relative few individuals. And if such an agent were ever somehow created, it would almost certainly involve genetic material that could only have been introduced via genetic engineering and so would be easily detectable.

 

It's safe to say that getting caught releasing a global pandemic on purpose would risk getting a country nuked if it were perceived as an act of war conducted by a nation rather than as an act of psychopathic pragmatism initiated by the global elite who have no national loyalties (in which case detecting it would be moot). The latter scenario may well prove to be the case since much of the global elite are high-functioning psychopaths and they tend to be very selfishly pragmatic (e.g., if you have a problem with too many people and not enough resources then just kill most of the people you have no use for; problem solved!).

 

 

That suggests that one of the major safeguards against the release of engineered bioagents that can replicate is the very real and extremely high probability of "blowback" (which could involve either getting infected, getting nuked, or both). Simple self-interest may be the only safeguard we have, frankly, and which is probably not going to be good enough in the long run. Chaos Theory is also somewhat protective here since it's also the case that bioagents capable of replicating can (and do) mutate in unpredictable ways, including becoming able to infect those it was originally engineered to spare (assuming such was possible).

 

 

So trying to cull all the Useless Eaters from the planet with a virus risks seeing your friends, family, or even yourself ending up among the culled, and that might've been the only thing inhibiting those who could create and release a new virus from actually doing so. But as genetic engineering technology becomes more accessible this will probably change, and eventually a psychopath who doesn't care about anything at all will probably unleash something just for shits'n'giggles and wouldn't care if it was detectable as synthetic or not. Even then, this might happen naturally as the permafrost melts and ancient pathogens are released that might prove deadlier than anything circulating at the moment.

 

 

Something else that would help the culling of the perceived-to-be-useless would be to start a massive propaganda campaign to convince as many people as possible that vaccinations are the real threat to their and their children's health. The anti-vax scene is most widespread and entrenched among the middle class, and that's coincidentally the most useless class of all as far as the top of the pyramid-scheme is concerned. All that's required to create a medical clusterfuck (either regionally or globally) is reducing the number of vaccinated individuals in a given population until "herd immunity" is lost, which is a relatively small percentage.

 

And as we can see with recent outbreaks of once-vanquished diseases like measles, if the anti-vax movement is an intentional strategy to spread disease then it's been working great. That and a flood of cheap Fentanyl seem to be killing a lot of people with plenty of plausible deniability as far as being deliberately intended to do so is concerned, but I digress.

[TVCasualty]

Just a few years after this, and with the private company now running what had been the army's biological research facilities at Ft. Detrick, MD, having received the requested funding, amazingly, some natives in deepest darkest Central Africa, doing some heathen practices in the jungle, caught AIDS from a green monkey.  It then escaped to New York, Chicago, San Francisco, and Los Angeles and into a national hepatitis program that would only accept promiscuous gay men.  So many coincidences that the mind boggles and reverts to the official story.

 

It's weird, but what just came into memory was newsreels from way back when showing the mass vaccination programs in Central Africa.   Then there were the numbers of cases of infections to point to AIDS having begun just there, after that green monkey had done whatever it did.   Durn monkey, making a case to doubt the official story.

 

 

If it's accepted that the infamous Roy Cohn was among the most entrenched of insiders among the rich and powerful then the fact that he died of AIDS seems relevant to the notion that HIV was intentionally created and/or released. That is, if HIV was released on purpose then they apparently forgot to warn their own favorite fixer/lawyer/mob liason/sexual blackmailer/etc.

[August West]

It took a lot longer than I expected for AIDS to make an appearance in this thread.

[newmoon]

There's a bit of baggage to unpack; my apologies in advance for going off topic. I've been thinking about whether I should say something for the last couple days.

This article, "Coronavirus Fears Are Reviving Racist Ideas About Chinese Food", is worth reading, I think. This sort of charge is familiar to any Asian person in the US (such as myself); attacking Asian food as gross or weird is a common way to attack Asian people, by association, as gross, weird, or evil (as was done explicitly in this thread). This isn't cool - if the sentiment was "Black people are evil and deserve to die" or "Mexican people are evil and deserve to die" it would be clearly unacceptable, and it's not different with other ethnic groups.

As TVC pointed out, every culture has its share of gross, unethical practices. Chinese medicine uses parts from endangered animals; European societies have spent much of the last 500 years carrying out genocides and destroying the environment for economic gain. Parts of Chinese culture have had strong vegetarian traditions for several thousand years; when Europeans arrived in North America they immediately set about butchering the native fauna (bison, passenger pigeons). Cultures and peoples are not monolithic. Americans like to eat baby animals (veal, lamb), go shoot endangered animals on trophy hunting safaris, grind male chicks alive in egg production facilities, etc.; does this mean everyone living here is evil and deserves to die? If one wants to take a generally misanthropic position, great, but that doesn't seem to me to be what's going on here.

Edited by newmoon, 17 February 2020 - 07:04 PM.

[August West]

...my apologies in advance for going off topic.

I don't think you should feel obliged to apologize. Ime, it's extremely difficult to not respond when I'm confronted with the level of ignorance presented in parts of this thread.

[TVCasualty]

It took a lot longer than I expected for AIDS to make an appearance in this thread.

 

I should cop to being the first one to do so in reply #3. But my allusion was apt for the context of the comment, methinks.

[August West]

I should cop to being the first one to do so in reply #3. But my allusion was apt for the context of the comment, methinks.

 

Yea, I was thinking more about the designed bio-weapon version...

[Juthro]

You know, I went to Wally World  a couple of days ago, and I'm starting to feel a little feverish, and getting the chills today....

 

They sell a lot of chinese stuff at wally world. Do you think that maybe they weaponised some of it.... ??!!? 

 

Edited by Juthro, 18 February 2020 - 06:37 PM.

[August West]

Wally World, you say? Be careful, it could break the skin, lodge under the skin and cause a very bad infection...

 

[Direct Link]

[MsBehavin420]

There's a bit of baggage to unpack; my apologies in advance for going off topic. I've been thinking about whether I should say something for the last couple days.

This article, "Coronavirus Fears Are Reviving Racist Ideas About Chinese Food", is worth reading, I think. This sort of charge is familiar to any Asian person in the US (such as myself); attacking Asian food as gross or weird is a common way to attack Asian people, by association, as gross, weird, or evil (as was done explicitly in this thread). This isn't cool - if the sentiment was "Black people are evil and deserve to die" or "Mexican people are evil and deserve to die" it would be clearly unacceptable, and it's not different with other ethnic groups.

As TVC pointed out, every culture has its share of gross, unethical practices. Chinese medicine uses parts from endangered animals; European societies have spent much of the last 500 years carrying out genocides and destroying the environment for economic gain. Parts of Chinese culture have had strong vegetarian traditions for several thousand years; when Europeans arrived in North America they immediately set about butchering the native fauna (bison, passenger pigeons). Cultures and peoples are not monolithic. Americans like to eat baby animals (veal, lamb), go shoot endangered animals on trophy hunting safaris, grind male chicks alive in egg production facilities, etc.; does this mean everyone living here is evil and deserves to die? If one wants to take a generally misanthropic position, great, but that doesn't seem to me to be what's going on here.

aint no attack on asian people. Its an attack on a disgusting culture of people in a specific place... Theyre the reason why theyre sick. Repeatedly. Whether it's the govt creating the disease and implementing it into various ways /methods of getting their people sick to getting sick from eating things we know we should not be eating. There is no reason to eat bat when they are vectors for diseases like rabies, ebola, wuhan, etc.



https://www.iflscien...-many-diseases/

[Juthro]

 

aint no attack on asian people. Its an attack on a disgusting culture of people in a specific place...

 

God bless you MsB, but I'm fairly certain that this is the most ignorant thing I've read in quite some time....

[MsBehavin420]

Juthro. I dont care what country it is.
If you're polluting the earth to the point that livestock cant eat what growz there , killing endangered animals for a supposedly hard penis, stealing and killing and eating peoples pets, youre terrible people. They literally have to wear masks to go outside from the pollution of open air smelting lead and cobalt.

You could suppliment any country. Idgaf. It could be New Jersey for all i care and id say the exact same thing. Jersey is disgusting as is Staten Island.

The only ignorance in here is the denial of atrocities that are being committed by a certain country of peoples..

[Juthro]

When you blanket judge an entire population of over a billion people,  and define them all in a single paragraph, your being a racist, and a bigot.  Not to mention your off topic, and beating a dead horse. 

 

I dont have the will, or the time to argue with you about this.  But If you wish to continue to act the fool, it's no skin off my nose, but I'm not going to play the game with you.

 

Though I would suggest that if you want to continue to blame, and bash an entire culture over your perceived wrongs, you should start your own thread instead of cluttering up someone else's with this garbage.

 

I'm out.....  

 

 

[Choices]

Juthro. I dont care what country it is.
If you're polluting the earth to the point that livestock cant eat what growz there , killing endangered animals for a supposedly hard penis, stealing and killing and eating peoples pets, youre terrible people. They literally have to wear masks to go outside from the pollution of open air smelting lead and cobalt.

You could suppliment any country. Idgaf. It could be New Jersey for all i care and id say the exact same thing. Jersey is disgusting as is Staten Island.

The only ignorance in here is the denial of atrocities that are being committed by a certain country of peoples..

SI is a floating dump. Most of 9/11’s trash is buried in the earth out there.

[Choices]

Here's my favorite take-away from the article:
"Starting this week, scores of WeChat users complained that they were locked out of their personal accounts after people in their chat groups discussed issues around the virus outbreak. That’s meant losing access to all of their stored social contacts as well as the money in their WeChat wallets. Many others have gone into self-policing mode, reminding friends in their chat groups not to exchange information about the coronavirus."

Welcome to your future in a cash-less electronic society.

If this virus doesn't fuck up the global economy beyond recognition then some of those trends will probably change thanks to those kinds of reports.


AIDS was originally swept under the rug by pretending it didn't exist at first, which is why the message of activists at the time was "Silence = Death." That is just as true right now as it was then. If China survives this it will not be forgotten by the Chinese people that their government prefers they get sick and die over exchanging accurate and potentially life-saving information that the government might find awkward. When you inform a population that they literally have nothing left to lose anymore then they tend to act like it.

This could very well be the spark that ultimately blows China apart; things were plenty precarious already with the tensions over trade and the mass-detentions of Uighurs and an uprising in Hong Kong.

What are your thoughts that this is China’s way of population control? Also did you hear the report of the Harvard Bio Professor jailed with ties to China. The two might not be related but it seems suspicious.

When I worked at NIH there were a lot of strange things, and floors I needed to gain access to that had all sorts of crazy bio tech. I was talking with one of the scientists there and he said there are things in there vaults that If put on a train in NYC bound for LA by the time it arrived everything would be dead in its wake.

Edited by Choices, 19 February 2020 - 08:14 PM.

[onediadem]

I think this virus escaped the lab, just like aids.

[Ripples]

I wonder what people were talking about years later after St. Anthony’s Fire eventually leaked out of the lab?
All them gluten eaters back then as a culture making crops that the animals couldn’t eat, maybe there were a shit culture destroying the planet. What race did that happen to?

Edited by Ripples, 19 February 2020 - 10:52 PM.

[Alder Logs]

Neither this virus, nor AIDS, "escaped" a lab.  Both were put into populations.  AIDS with a Central Africa vaccinations program, and this one most likely by players unknown (but I can guess), not likely Chinese players.     Just a hunch based on having been watching (and that's not teevee) for a long time.

Edited by Alder Logs, 20 February 2020 - 12:29 AM.

[ElrikEriksson]

What are your thoughts that this is China’s way of population control?

Say what you like about the chinese, they do tend to be efficient.

A disease that might kill 0,05% of their population, most of them elderly and beyond reproduction, while disrupting their entire military, civilian, and business infrastructure and causing lasting damage to their economy would not be efficient population control.

If a seemingly weaponized form of mumps that is not controlled by existing vaccines appears and renders 20% of the chinese population sterile, that would look like population control.

 

I personally doubt this 'escaped a lab'. But if it did, be glad it was a biological weapon engineered to disrupt and distract a population rather than kill it.

No airborne ebola this year, it seems.