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The Pandemic Thread
Posted 29 March 2021 - 02:31 PM
I'm all for peoples freedom of choice.If the literature and science points towards wearing a mask, I'll follow the proper guidelines.
It's been pretty standard in the medical world to wear a mask when ill with air-borne disease. As pointed out from the article almost 100 years ago, people have a hard time following guidelines. This whole thing has been very difficult to gauge did all our preliminary measures work well enough where it never really hit that critical mass that most people thought we should be seeing...Or are we going to hit the true pandemic levels once people stop taking basic precaution.
I've worked in a non-ventilated room for a while now. In the past I was seasonally sick in the winter. Hasn't happened from wearing a mask, so they work and I will continue to wear one in high-risk spots. I didn't come down with the Corona nor did anyone around me, could lead me to believe it never was around me. Only people I heard in my circle catching it were reckless friends or reckless practices...
The C-PTSD has been done to the masses...some may not want to admit it, but in a way this is the most traumatic thing a large portion of 1st world countries have gone through. We are learning C-PTSD doesn't need to occur from a single traumatic experience, it can be from just long-term effects of isolation, bullying, harassments, or more typical traumatic events.
I’ve noticed in the past 2-3 weeks my average patient removes their mask as soon as I start examining them. I don’t tell them to remove it and only had 2 people remove it prior to the fall-out removal of masks... Well hopefully they can taste all the virucide in the air without a mask.
Edited by rockyfungus, 29 March 2021 - 05:55 PM.
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Posted 30 March 2021 - 10:10 AM
While I agree with tv on the macro assumptions of this comparison to the the 1918 Spanish flu is a bit of a stretch.
For many reasons not the least of which is unlike now in 1918 the overall sanitation was far below today’s standards, the “global” economy as we know it with hours not days for international travel did not exist and vaccines did not exist.
Not to mention the data for Covid demonstrates a significant number of the cases that had poor out comes were in either elderly or overweight populations. Obesity as we know it also did not exist at least to the extent we see now.
All this being said i think references to 1918 Spanish flu as a an example we should follow “or else” is inaccurate at best
Considering that many that have either had Covid and no ill effects (not any worse than a cold with stomach ache... like 90 some percent of cases) or those that have had the vaccine (something like 15-20%) of the population and still being told to don a mask. It’s seems like the concept of the government or other people taking care of you has surpassed the idea that people should generally take care of themselves. Holding a whole planet responsible for the overweight, smokers, and those without the self discipline to be healthy, while it seems like benevolence on the part of the government is and has historically been the start of some very bad outcomes of government intervention and control.
In my opinion
The idea that a government should decide who is and who is not able to operate a small business, travel, worship have guests for holiday, then imposing that ideology on its populace without their consent is much more worthy of historical reference and study.
Why did you put "or else" in quotes when that phrase did not appear in the article? That is disingenuous.
And I guess elderly people are to blame for not taking better care of their youth and tough shit for them for letting themselves go like that because the rest of us were smart enough to be young and healthy. Because that's the demographic being decimated the most, by far.
Government mandated shutdowns and restrictions are a different issue than wearing a mask, but they tend to get mixed up as a single issue so it starts to seem like promoting masks is promoting economic ruination or totalitarian oppression or whatever.
But the fact that the (U.S.) government arguably fucked up all the lockdown/shutdown stuff by not providing the necessary economic support to prevent closed businesses from going bankrupt and people from being evicted is an entirely separate issue from whether or not we should still be wearing masks, which the article made a strong case for continuing (with TWENTY sources cited, not counting photo credits, so denying the validity of the comparison is the stretch). Since the "Spanish" Flu and COVID-19 are both examples of pandemics, comparing them is entirely valid and I would argue necessary since the purpose is to learn how to handle them better, which we could obviously use some help with.
And the point of the article was to act as a comparison that suggests some basic prudence is in order, which it openly acknowledged:
The deadly third wave of influenza in 1919 shows what can happen when people prematurely relax their guard.
That's a valid statement since that is in fact what can, and if the past year is any guide most likely will, happen. The flu pandemic also had a fourth wave, so it dragged on from February of 1918 to April of 1920.
Continuing to wear a mask even after getting vaccinated is still recommended because the Pfizer vaccine is at most 95% effective against transmission, but that doesn't mean much when so many people are likely to refuse the shots. Masks also help prevent the spread of other respiratory diseases as well which helps reduce overall strain on the health care system, which will become critical if we have to deal with a fourth wave (or if the ongoing third wave grows out of control).
So what should we do instead? Open everything up now, pretend that life's back to normal, and hope for the best? How about enacting some substantive economic reform since the suffering so many are enduring is not so much a result of the pandemic or gov't shutdowns as it is a rigged economic "system" working precisely as intended?
It doesn't have to be either/or; we can keep wearing masks AND dust off the guillotines...
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Posted 30 March 2021 - 10:55 AM
I read that article last week but didn't bother to relay it to anyone.
Basically what I took away from the article was the promise that we'll never see the end of this - at least in my lifetime. What with all of the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, (ad infinitum), waves.........
And then with some new "variant" (or another virus potentially lurking in the background - like "terrorism" does)........
Now, what used to be accomplished by moving in a straight line has been turned into a Fibonacci Spiral. There is no end. Go and circle your choice of grocery store today and deny what I'm observing. Does anyone really think any of the cute directional stickers, plexi-glass barriers, or any of this shit stores were forced to spend money on..........is going away? Folks are ignoring them anyway so the establishment has something further to point to when they prolong the lock-down. It was the signage.......if only folks had paid more attention to the directional signage pasted on the floors, walls, and shelves.
So after surviving AIDS, the crack epidemic, the war on drugs, the war on terror, SARS, MERS, Zika virus, ..........and COVID19.....
I guess I'm better prepared for COVID21, '23, '25, '27, ..........
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Posted 30 March 2021 - 11:37 AM
True, we won't see COVID-19 end in any of our lifetimes, but the pandemic it's causing will.
The "Spanish Flu" never ended either, it also just stopped being a pandemic but we still deal with variants of it (aka H1N1) every year and just got used to somewhere between 12,000 and 61,000 people dying annually from it (the range since 2010). This past flu season was remarkably mild in terms of infection rate and that was largely thanks to the measures put in place for COVID.
In some Asian countries wearing masks is much more common and even expected in many situations, and maybe that and the barriers (etc.) should be more common, and even kept permanently?
As population density only keeps rising and as we encroach further into habitats known for producing extremely virulent zoonotic diseases it's safe to assume that new outbreaks of as-yet unknown diseases are extremely likely, and thanks to global air travel they will spread and achieve "pandemic" status far more quickly than pandemics that have historically decimated vast populations. So you are in fact better prepared for the outbreaks and/or pandemics to come.
It's also likely, or at least probable, that some of those future pandemics will be either more contagious than SARS-CoV-2, more virulent, or both. We got "lucky" with this virus in that it's not nearly as virulent or contagious as it could be (if other viruses are any indication). When the next outbreak happens, having all the measures already in place and normalizing the wearing of masks puts us in a much better position to stop it in its tracks, or at least slow it down enough to minimize the disruption and death toll as much as possible.
COVID-19 was merely a warning shot from nature. If it was a test to see how well we'd handle it then we largely failed in every meaningful way (with the exception of the speed the vaccines were developed) and are very fortunate that we don't have to pay for our failures with a smallpox-level death rate (this time).
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Posted 30 March 2021 - 03:16 PM
In my mind the biggest source of disagreement with reasonable folk comes from the finale, the when is it going to be over factor. One camp is saying if we just hold our nose and slam down the medicine it will be over sooner than later and we can get back to a mostly normal life. While the other camp is thinking that there is no ending, no real hope of returning to a normal life under compliance. The perception is there will always be a reason to keep it going, keep us scared of the air itself.
The vaccine is a good example of it, plenty of people assumed that once we got vaccinated we could stop the social distancing and mask wearing but that never was the plan and you really didn't have to look to far to find that out. Nobody wanted to talk about it for fear of the mass saying well screw taking the vaccine then. That seems to be the other issue I am having, the mass message is catered for the lowest common denominator, instead of getting the truth we seem to get what they think will make us do a particular thing, we can't handle the truth. The toilet paper episode was a scary reminder of why that can be important so the message is adjusted. Many other people start falling through the cracks of this wide strainer and it feels like they are constantly being lied to and treated like a child. I don't know what the answer is, but for now mass enforcement and ineffective blanket solutions remain mostly unchallenged, because well it will all be over soon
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Posted 01 April 2021 - 08:11 AM
I recently read a comment on the virus that made me pause and say (more than usual)..... now wait ... what?? The comment was a 2 part mind blower and went something like this... "Since the Wuhan lab discovered the Corona viruses in bats in 2012 there is a high probability the virus strain we are seeing now had its source from the Wuhan lab, which means Terrence McKenna's Fractal Time theory was correct" Ok --setting all the speculation of where and when the source of the virus was or was not, what was that about part about McKenna's Fractal Time Theory?
Ive listened to a few McKenna talks on you tube and am aware that he was a psychedelics pioneer/researcher of sorts although not quite as "papered up" as Leary and have not delved too deep into his concepts so the Fractal Time Theory came as a surprise.
Googling around a bit I learned that before the Mayan Calendar doomsday predication was made Terrence McKenna had made the same prediction based on his theory of time being Fractal (from what I understand about Fractals ,which is basic at best - this would mean that time repeats itself in an overarching pattern that is repeated.) The McKenna fractal time theory also indicated that this Theory of time explained how to read the I-Ching Hexagram-(which is another rabbit hole, for another day)
As much as I would like to dismiss all of this as nonsense - knowing what I know about what can be revealed on a plant medicine journey, physics, history and what is occurring before my eyes, this does not seem as far fetched as one would think. Although not necessarily probable, just possible- could it be that a variant of the Corona virus that we are dealing with was discovered in 2012? and is it possible that both the Mayans and McKenna saw the beginnings of a shift or end of an age happening at that time? Who knows? and would it matter if they did? But now that I've entertained the idea of Fractal Time - i just can't shake the idea that time is Fractal - which is more that just history repeating itself - its history repeating itself on a micro and macro level. If you pay credence to the Fractal Time theory then is possible that the Tytler Cycle (or for those adverse to a Judeo- Christian example - the Hindu concept of Yuga - or the Kali Yuga as where we are now in time).
Either way it does make one wonder and may (or may not) be something to keep in mind as we all stumble forward in this new age where very little is as it was just 1 short year ago.
Of course this could all be just BS mind wandering too at this point I'm still just floating the idea in my mind but just I'm wondering what all you minded peeps think of this Fractal Time theory possibility
- Mods I was not sure where to post this - its kind of pandemic related but maybe not - kind of depends on where it goes from here?
Posted 01 April 2021 - 01:17 PM
When you start thinking about it I get a little bit lost trying to make sense of the these two different phenomenon. One being the repeating cycle that seems to have happened more times than we realize when it comes to this planet earth. Via earth restarting events such as catastrophic meteor strike or volcanic activity. How much of that "echo" or whatever you want to call it is just from our own civilization starting over multiple times, versus the entire universe repeating itself. As far as I can tell from my infantile understanding that would be when all matter eventually concentrates to a single point so dense that it rapidly expands and explodes out into the universe we know today. Then as things slowly start to slow down the black holes form, they suck all that matter back into that one single point again, lather rinse repeat.
I was watching a show about time and they used the line "The past can always talk to the future but the future can't talk back".
Well for now
So covid past? or is that future? shit well anyway tell us the secrets!
Edited by FLASHINGROOSTER, 01 April 2021 - 01:21 PM.
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