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The Pandemic Thread


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#1861 YoshiTrainer

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Posted 24 September 2021 - 09:43 PM

"Often they don't actually choose to live in such places. A recurring example is the people living in places (such as the Gulf coast) who would be all about evacuating from an incoming hurricane, but can't even get out of town for a week."

If the government mandated that people not live in these dangerous areas then there'd be no need for evacuations. The government would of course help current residences in the dangerous areas to relocate. Those that remained would face forced vacating. It's not the normal people who you can reason with but "Those" people. You know the type, the blue beret type, with the art college degrees, complaining on their $1000 cell phone about capitalism while living off daddy's wealth. They are unwilling to surrender their family's beach front estates for the good of society, the shame. (Insert witty comparison of stronger disasters to people wishing COVID was more deadly like Ebola so people would get vaccinated). :)

In reality, I believe in people being able to choose their fate and reap the rewards or pay the consequences. Though, people refusing the vaccine because Biden is in office are daft. These vaccines are Trumps doing! If it wasn't for Trump and operation "Warp Speed", the complete immunity Big Pharma received and giant piles of $$$, we might not even have vaccines to debate. Those that have received vaccinations may thank (or curse) DT for them. Being a complete narcissist, like most modern presidents, since he had antibodies he probably made a deal in exchange for immunity, they use his antibodies in the creation of the vaccines. A little bit of Trump in everyone! :)

As Americans (most of us) in time of need come together to help each other. When natural disasters hit people rush to help regardless of race, sex or politics. I promise here and now, if those of you who received Trump's vaccine develop orange skin and a bad plastic combover, we will still welcome you in society! :)

Here is a hospital unable to deliver babies because of forced vaccinations.

https://www.npr.org/...s-baby-delivery

Here is a story about CDC under counting breakthrough cases and using old data.

https://www.politico...throughs-506823

Two fully vaccinated View hosts test positive

https://www.cnbc.com...-interview.html

Edited by YoshiTrainer, 24 September 2021 - 09:56 PM.


#1862 Arathu

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Posted 25 September 2021 - 07:01 AM

To continue.....please insert more quarters........

 

I dreamed my great grandchildren stumbled upon the guide-stones and we resettled Georgia......well below the leading edge of an ice sheet.....

 

Sun was in a different position in the sky......

 

I gotta quit getting stoned on this fancy new weed too late at night.......and reading Velikovsky..........

 

Can't wait to see what the Kapa-Kapa-Kapa variant does.....

 

A


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#1863 TVCasualty

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Posted 25 September 2021 - 08:26 AM

If the government mandated that people not live in these dangerous areas then there'd be no need for evacuations. The government would of course help current residences in the dangerous areas to relocate.

 

 

For that to work the government would have to be able to predict the future. And that's not likely since it seems to already have plenty of trouble attempting to comprehend the the present.

 

The Gulf Coast (or any coast for that matter) wasn't such a high-risk area until sea level rise and global warming started becoming noticeable. Of course the funny part is that the problems these areas are facing were in fact predicted, but those predictions were largely ignored (just like beachfront high-rise condo maintenance, apparently).

 

 

You know the type, the blue beret type, with the art college degrees, complaining on their $1000 cell phone about capitalism while living off daddy's wealth. They are unwilling to surrender their family's beach front estates for the good of society, the shame.

 

 

 

I do know that type, sort of, and they are definitely not who I was talking about.

 

 

Here is a hospital unable to deliver babies because of forced vaccinations.

 

 

 

Disingenuous framing. None of the staff will be vaccinated against their will.

 

 

And an argument could be made that the mRNA vaccines were made and distributed so fast in spite of T****, not because of him. They were the culmination of ~30 years of work, after all. So the only thing fast about the rollout was scaling-up their production and that was done by pharma companies, not the government.



#1864 YoshiTrainer

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Posted 25 September 2021 - 10:17 AM

The government could use previous data to determine which zones need to be vacated due to natural disasters. Of course this is rediculous thinking, clearing out most of TX, LA, MS, FL, much of the Eastern seabord, along the Missisipi, parts of CA, etc. Not denying global warming but the history of hurricanes in the Gulf Coast goes back to 1622 and the earliest Cat rating was in 1870.

The blue beret comment was a facetious analogy to how "red hats" are portrayed. The process is to identify a group and label them in a non human manner as a way to make physical or verbal abuse acceptable. There certainly are extremists and morons on both sides of the aisle unfortunately, they tend to scream the loudest. Recently, a meme from your gallery of photos dealt with this. :)

The hospital staff was given a choice of get the vaccine or loose their jobs. Many chose not to get the shot and quit or were terminated, this is not the only example of this. Because of the response to the forced vaccination policy, the hospital is understaffed and had declared they may be unable to deliver babies. They also mentioned the lack of staff would effect other parts of the hospital.

I would suggest that because HHS allowed Big Pharma to receive truckloads of $, complete immunity and emergency use (under Trump) that the time line was shortened tremendously. They may have been researching mRna for decades but they only discovered the right protein structure for COVID 19 in 2020. That is when specific human trials began and continue today, long term efficacy or side effects are still unknown. This is why a 2 shot vaccine now needs a booster and may need more?

"Ordinarily, manufacturers wait for proof of efficacy before building the expensive, custom infrastructure and systems needed to produce millions of doses of a new treatment. Why make that investment if the test candidate may fail? But for the mRNA COVID-19 vaccines, the U.S. government pledged to purchase millions of doses and provided upfront money, even before the vaccine’s efficacy was determined. This allowed Moderna and Pfizer/BioNTech to build mass-production capacity, even as testing was underway."

https://www.uab.edu/...quickly-be-safe

So if Big Pharma did not produce something called a vaccine, they'd have to give back the upfront tax dollars they received?

I'm going back to my original theory that the vaccines are actually marinade and meat tenderizer to make us more palatable to "The Greys". :)

Edited by YoshiTrainer, 25 September 2021 - 10:28 AM.

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#1865 FLASHINGROOSTER

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Posted 25 September 2021 - 10:53 AM

Not looking to target anyone with this statement considering I have done it plenty of times myself and probably will a few times more

 

Politics have made discussions around this painful. The media laying out a minefield of misrepresented data for us to navigate to find some semblance of the truth. The more research I would do and the more involved I would get the more the anger and anxiety levels seemed to climb

 

I have no idea how we get there but we need to let go of the hate in our hearts for "the other". A primitive holdover that is constantly exacerbated by forces with the goal to either gain power or make money.

 

Even though it might make a person feel good to call someone a red heat wearing fuck or whatever, a social justice pussy or whatever, or even posting a meme eluding to it. All that really does other than satisfy our own ego's is to shovel another load of coal into the perpetual hate machine.


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#1866 Juthro

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Posted 25 September 2021 - 04:22 PM

Yeah, I'm still not buying into living in areas that are prone to natural disasters is in any way comparable to COVID and the vaccine.  It's just not a valid comparison.   No amount of restating the argument is going to convince me that it's still not apples, and pickup trucks.

 

I also have to say that saying rump was the driving factor that fast tracked vaccine production is so much of a stretch for me that I almost have to laugh.  The great orange, and his followers are clearly the leading force in the anti vax movement, to imply that they/him deserve the credit for it's fast roll out is likely to piss them off more then it will upset anyone else. 

 

As far as the nurses that quit their jobs over refusing to get the vaccine.  God bless them all, but I think it's better for everyone if they find a different trade more suitable to their personal beliefs.   Preferably something where they didn't have to interact with the public in person at all, let alone vulnerable newborns, and their mothers.

 

Also I feel compelled to say that with having personally lost family, and friends to the virus, that I find your meat tenderizer comment a bit lacking in empathy.


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#1867 TVCasualty

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Posted 25 September 2021 - 06:16 PM

Finally, some good news from the ...Facebook people.

 

https://www.nbcnews....e-icus-rcna2233

 

 

Anti-vaccine Facebook groups have a new message for their community members: Don’t go to the emergency room, and get your loved ones out of intensive care units.

 

Consumed by conspiracy theories claiming that doctors are preventing unvaccinated patients from receiving miracle cures or are even killing them on purpose, some people in anti-vaccine and pro-ivermectin Facebook groups are telling those with Covid-19 to stay away from hospitals and instead try increasingly dangerous at-home treatments, according to posts seen by NBC News over the past few weeks.

 

The messages represent an escalation in the mistrust of medical professionals in groups that have sprung up in recent months on social media platforms, which have tried to crack down on Covid misinformation. And it’s something that some doctors say they’re seeing manifest in their hospitals as they have filled up because of the most recent delta variant wave.

 

“We were down to four Covid patients two months ago. In this surge, we’ve had 40 to 50 patients with Covid on four different ICU services, 97 percent of them unvaccinated,” said Wes Ely, an ICU doctor and professor of medicine at the Vanderbilt University School of Medicine. “We were making headway, and now we’re just losing really, really badly. There’s something that’s happening on the internet, and it’s dramatically increasing steam.”

 

 

It appears that the latest miracle cure is huffing hydrogen peroxide (the recommended chaser for veterinary Ivermectin, I guess). Some are advocating the use of the food-grade 35% stuff. If nothing else doing that will in fact increase the oxygen level in their lungs. Sure, it kills the virus. So does bleach.

 

But it has to make direct contact with the virus in order to do tha and all of the virus present has to be killed before stopping the treatment or else viral loads will be back up real fast, assuming the peroxide doesn't fuck them up in other ways (a real potential for anyone using the 35% stuff, which seems like it would hurt a lot) or act as a de facto "comorbidity" (i.e., being terminally gullible and harming themselves with quackery).

 

But that's all okay I guess so long as they really truly aren't going to the ER and are refusing hospitalization or ventilators so that ...non-Facebook people can use them instead.

 

 



#1868 TVCasualty

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Posted 25 September 2021 - 06:46 PM

The government could use previous data to determine which zones need to be vacated due to natural disasters. Of course this is rediculous thinking, clearing out most of TX, LA, MS, FL, much of the Eastern seabord, along the Missisipi, parts of CA, etc. Not denying global warming but the history of hurricanes in the Gulf Coast goes back to 1622 and the earliest Cat rating was in 1870.

The blue beret comment was a facetious analogy to how "red hats" are portrayed. The process is to identify a group and label them in a non human manner as a way to make physical or verbal abuse acceptable. There certainly are extremists and morons on both sides of the aisle unfortunately, they tend to scream the loudest. Recently, a meme from your gallery of photos dealt with this. :)

The hospital staff was given a choice of get the vaccine or loose their jobs. Many chose not to get the shot and quit or were terminated, this is not the only example of this. Because of the response to the forced vaccination policy, the hospital is understaffed and had declared they may be unable to deliver babies. They also mentioned the lack of staff would effect other parts of the hospital.

I would suggest that because HHS allowed Big Pharma to receive truckloads of $, complete immunity and emergency use (under Trump) that the time line was shortened tremendously. They may have been researching mRna for decades but they only discovered the right protein structure for COVID 19 in 2020. That is when specific human trials began and continue today, long term efficacy or side effects are still unknown. This is why a 2 shot vaccine now needs a booster and may need more?

"Ordinarily, manufacturers wait for proof of efficacy before building the expensive, custom infrastructure and systems needed to produce millions of doses of a new treatment. Why make that investment if the test candidate may fail? But for the mRNA COVID-19 vaccines, the U.S. government pledged to purchase millions of doses and provided upfront money, even before the vaccine’s efficacy was determined. This allowed Moderna and Pfizer/BioNTech to build mass-production capacity, even as testing was underway."

https://www.uab.edu/...quickly-be-safe

So if Big Pharma did not produce something called a vaccine, they'd have to give back the upfront tax dollars they received?

I'm going back to my original theory that the vaccines are actually marinade and meat tenderizer to make us more palatable to "The Greys". :)

 

Hurricane intensity is worse now. Sea-level rise is a thing, too. Now add them together, Superstorm Sandy style. And that's just hurricanes and sea levels (the tip of the melting iceberg).

 

Anyone who is still a "red hat" at this point is a fucking idiot, traitor, or terminally stupid and is either stuck with the ideological version of the "sunk cost" fallacy or is unambiguously pro-Fascist. This is not hard to prove so is more than mere opinion (e.g. the growing list of indictments). Biden and the Democrats are no saviors, but the GOP is going so far off the rails into sociopathy and reactionary rage that I'll be genuinely surprised if the U.S. is still a Democracy (the Republic version, obviously) after the 2024 Presidential election.

 

The die-hard (literally) red-hats are technically human, I guess. But there's more to being human than wearing a hat and screaming at people in School Board meetings. Empathy for one's fellow humans ought to be part of the basic requirements for full humanhood (IMO). Frank Herbert agrees, which is what the pain box and Gom Jabbar was about (if Paul over came his animal instincts he was considered fully "human" and would be allowed to live).

 

I guess we're finally slamming into the harsh reality of Karl Popper's Tolerance Paradox. But at least those demanding that their unhinged intolerance be tolerated are telling each other to stay out of hospitals, so that's a glimmer of hope I guess. It's not that I wish death upon them, or anyone. Death comes soon enough for all of us. It's that I'm glad to see them removing themselves from burdening hospitals and (sane) health care workers and draining valuable medical resources with their arrogantly-dense selfishness.

 

All those unvaccinated health care workers can GoFundThemselves.

 

Giving T**** credit for Operation Warp Speed is a technicality since he happened to be the President at the time it was needed. Everything else he did with regard to the pandemic was breathtakingly incompetent or batshit crazy. I don't think broken clocks deserve credit for being correct twice a day. Disbanding/firing the Pandemic Response Team in 2018 probably didn't do much to help, for example.


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#1869 YoshiTrainer

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 02:44 PM

Juthro, please understand the meat tenderizer comment was from a previous discussion we were involved in around ivermectin and other wacky conspiracies. Im not typing any of my responses with anger, I enjoy polite conversation and hope to bring information and supporting data for us all to make better decisions. I do believe the flu is real, I do empathize with those that have lost including a close friend of mine. I've had it twice, one of my herd had it a few weeks ago and my wife is a few days into it right now. For my family, with healthy strong immune systems, the current symptoms low fever, body aches, tiredness and a cough. The main symptoms last for about 4 days. At least for us, the symptoms are a little bit flu, a little bit cold. Definitely not the worst flu we have dealt with! I did not get sick a 2nd time for over a year and have recently been taking care of both sick people and still test negative. In my opinion, healthy people with strong immune systems might not need to be vaccinated. Instead, make sure that those at greatest risk have all the resources they need. Then, turn our eyes abroad and help our family around the world who are most desperate.

1. Out of the 34 million HIV-positive people worldwide, 69% live in sub-Saharan Africa. There are roughly 23.8 million infected persons in all of Africa.[1]

2. 91% of the world’s HIV-positive children live in Africa.[2]

3. More than one million adults and children die every year from HIV/AIDS in Africa alone. In 2011, 1.7 million people worldwide died from AIDS.[3]

4. Since the epidemic of HIV/AIDS, more than 75 million people have contracted the illness, and over 36 million have died from an HIV-related cause.[4]

https://www.dosometh...bout-hiv-africa

The natural disaster comparison was more about being presented with data showing something is dangerous and making your own decisions. It has become tedious so I'm happy to move on. I feel I deserve a bit of credit though, perhaps comparing apples to red Volkswagon bugs (hard top), they kind of look like apples! :)

For the record, I'm not a "red hat" or "blue beret", I prefer my chapéu be a nice color of tin! I also prefer not reducing human beings to inanimate objects. It becomes much easier to verbally or physically assault a human being when they become a "red hat".

I'd be curious, if not for Trump, "Operation Warp Speed" and HHS providing $$$$ and complete immunity to Big Pharma if we'd be on the same timeline?

When looking into booster shots, I came across this for Trump enthusiasts, from Politico, which is not a conservative publication.

"Walensky's decision early Friday means the federal government will once again need to kick-start a delivery and shipment operation to get booster shots to retail pharmacies and other health care facilities for distribution. The administration will draw on an existing infrastructure first concocted by former President Donald Trump’s Operation Warp Speed which allowed for the delivery of doses to a wide range of settings, including public health departments across the country."

Also found this in the same article, maybe had something to do with Comirnaty being the first and only approved mRNA vaccine?

"While Walensky made the right call on the prescribing guidance, the confusion over the CDC’s advisory panel’s advice is a larger problem that should have been dealt with earlier in the pandemic, said Scott Gottlieb, the former commissioner of the FDA who currently sits on Pfizer’s board"

https://www.politico...-rollout-514110


Huffing concentrated H2O2 or vet meds or bleach are obviously bad ideas, unless you mix them all together and add some amonia! (please dont!)


"Hurricane intensity is worse now. Sea-level rise is a thing, too. Now add them together, Superstorm Sandy style. And that's just hurricanes and sea levels (the tip of the melting iceberg)."

So are you suggesting, people for their own safety should not live in these areas? It would certainly save society the heart ache and tax dollars.

So, you wouldn't be opposed with removing these "Red Hats" from society since they are no more than animals! Maybe we should go door to door, confiscate their belongings and load them onto trains. Hopefully at some sort of camp, they can work to become enlightened souls. Work and education will set you free! Would you mind terribly if I added a few others to the train roster? Like the guy who knocked out the WWII veteran for wearing a red hat. Eventhough, I'm sure he deserved to be suckered punched by that 20 something year old. Perhaps the group of individuals that almost beat a man to death because he tried to stop them from burning down his meeting hall. Maybe the grown adult who attacked the young man or the white guy that knocked out the teeth of a black gentleman for holding a free speech rally or the old lady that was verbally assaulted while trying to cross the street or....... Unfortunately there is no shortage of unstable idiots on both sides and perhaps we could deal with the extremists and move forward together!


"In October of 2018, hundreds of young conservatives of color met up in Washington, DC, for the first ever Young Black Leadership Summit: a four-day conference that featured speeches from conservative actress Stacey Dash and firebrand Candace Owens, a trip to the White House to hear Trump speak, and a rare chance for young, black Republicans to get together and network IRL.

VICE’s Lee Adams went to the summit to talk firsthand with young, black conservatives about what drew them to the Republican party, along with what kind of backlash they’ve faced from the black community for going public with their political views.

[Direct Link]




I wasn't surprised when I read a comment wishing covid was deadlier like Ebola so people would get vaccinated. Besides being an idiotic statement it also a sad statement wishing 1/2 of America would die. People see the world through their cumulative experiences which are obviously different from yours, this is where conversation and tolerance allow for a transfer of ideas and feelings.

I wish all of you health, happiness, prosperity and good luck!
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#1870 Juthro

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 05:16 PM

I've got to question you, and your herd getting COVID and it being more mild then the flu.  Did you get tested, how do you know it wasn't a mild flu you had?  And even if it is the case that you had COVID, then good for you, you rolled the dice and won.    It was not true for my wife, or I when we got sick.  It wasn't the case for Coopdog's wife, and it was certainly not true for the 1 person in ever 500 that has died from COVID (in the US).

 

As I already told you, I'm all for supporting health care in other countries, but the AIDS epidemic in Africa does not correlate into this conversation.  It's fairly well known how AIDS spreads, and the measures that need to taken to stop it's spread are also known, and available.   This is not related to COVID, or the implementation of the vaccine at all.  To me it seems to be just another distractor, kind of like comparing getting the vaccine, to living in areas that have a potential for natural disaster.

 

Also, I'm of the opinion that if it wasn't for rump, and his gross mismanagement early on, we likely would have never needed operation 'warp speed'.  A kid who plays with matches shouldn't get a reward for helping to put out a fire he caused.

 

I also remember when you previously used the meat tenderizer joke, and IIRC I expressed my distaste about it then as well.

 



#1871 YoshiTrainer

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 07:03 PM

Originally + home tests then verified with lab. I'm not bragging or suggesting anyone should follow some guy on the internet advice! You make my point for me, a one size approach should not be used. It should not be forcing everyone to receive a vaccine, especially when not needed and in the presence of recent data that shows its fading efficacy. The one thing we all have in common is we are hopefully doing what is best for our families! I wont criticize you for that. Hopefully this virus will become more contagious and less deadly like with the evolution of other pandemics.

Aids patients are considered "at risk" I believe? 23.8 million people "at risk" in Africa and the world shrugs.

Since the entire world is infected with COVID, then the entire world must have grossly mismanaged early on.

China knew of the virus in Fall of 2019.

https://www.reuters....udy-2021-06-25/

Jan 14, the WHO tweets despite evidence of transmission

"“Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus.”

https://www.theatlan...navirus/609820/

China shuts down internal travel

https://economictime...foreign-travel/

China still allows foreign travel

https://www.latimes....-lunar-new-year


Here was your response to the marinade reference.

https://mycotopia.ne...30#entry1491324


I hope both you and Coop's wife make a complete recovery!

Good luck!
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#1872 ItBeBasidia

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Posted 27 September 2021 - 09:40 PM

I personally know 20 people who have gotten covid and recovered without much complications except for one person. The main issues were cough, fatigue, headache, and loss of taste and smell. The one who didn't fare well died, but she was 75 and had many health issues. I also believe the physicians were being specious and didn't give her enough time on the ventilator.

There is much to be wary of with mRNA vaccines IMHO, especially in how they work. Most of my friends and family have gotten mRNA vaccines with a day of being down and out being the only side effect so far. Why even try for a such a new method of vaccines though? What baffles me is that NOVAVAX has a vaccine that uses tried, true, and verified vaccine technology with better efficacy than all the current vaccines, yet it hasn't been released in the US. They haven't even applied for emergency use, but have plans for rollout in Europe and other countries in that side of the globe.

It is sad how all this has divided people in such a heated way. I get pressure from all my friends and family these days. Suddenly everyone is a subject expert and hold fast to their political teams, thinking science is on their side. Speaking of science, it seems to me that people are manipulating it in a manner that parallels how religion was manipulated to further political goals in the distant past.

But what do I know . I seemed to have gotten lost on my way to the Pan---aeolus thread. . A way better Pan thread. Anyone up for the challenge of a canopy of pans before the year ends?

Edited by ItBeBasidia, 27 September 2021 - 10:43 PM.

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#1873 shiftingshadows

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Posted 28 September 2021 - 12:51 AM

Amazingly we have available actual in depth science on the subject,

.  unfortunately or fortunately it requires a lot of patience to digest

.    it, due to the vocabulary & subtleties involved.

 

[Direct Link]

 

note there are numerous other videos, on the right side of the screen that explore even more aspects of the issues 'surrounding' covid-19.

 

As regards for example ivermectin for example the actual studies are discussed by a Dr. and a scientist, and both those who are pro and those who are con are shown, to be those, who are hasty, to have a position before one is warranted. All other issues are likewise given the care they deserve.

Having both a Dr. who treats covid patients, and a molecular biologist discus the issue, provides insights, one is unlikely to get from our main go to news sources. 



#1874 TVCasualty

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Posted 28 September 2021 - 11:00 AM

 What baffles me is that NOVAVAX has a vaccine that uses tried, true, and verified vaccine technology with better efficacy than all the current vaccines, yet it hasn't been released in the US. They haven't even applied for emergency use, but have plans for rollout in Europe and other countries in that side of the globe.

 

This is a good article about that: https://www.theatlan...vaccine/619276/

 

 

 

For the record, I'm not a "red hat" or "blue beret", I prefer my chapéu be a nice color of tin! I also prefer not reducing human beings to inanimate objects. It becomes much easier to verbally or physically assault a human being when they become a "red hat".

 

 

Symbols are a double-edged sword for that reason. Anyone who wants to be more than a mere reactionary can take off their stupid hat and be so. And from what I've seen most (not all) of the actual assaulting out in public is being done by people who are largely reducing themselves to being little more than their red hats or the trite slogan they represent and embody. And when so much of what's going on is racially charged then the difference between wearing a hat and being a minority start to become clearer once the hat-wearers take them off (which is something minorities can't do with their skin, obviously).

 

And it's easiest to assault people when gathered into like-minded groups (e.g., the Capitol on 1/6). At some point reflexively attacking any manifestation of the German version of the swastika was (and is) seen as fair game, and for good reason. I hope we don't have to re-learn this lesson again.

 

 


I'd be curious, if not for Trump, "Operation Warp Speed" and HHS providing $$$$ and complete immunity to Big Pharma if we'd be on the same timeline?



 

 

 

Almost certainly, if not faster. It's not like Biden (or Clinton, as it were) would not have done the same in the face of such a threat, and if Trump hadn't fired the Pandemic Response Team right before it struck (like Clinton or Biden would probably not have done) then it seems safe to say that the response would probably have been faster and more comprehensive.

 

 

"Hurricane intensity is worse now. Sea-level rise is a thing, too. Now add them together, Superstorm Sandy style. And that's just hurricanes and sea levels (the tip of the melting iceberg)."

So are you suggesting, people for their own safety should not live in these areas? It would certainly save society the heart ache and tax dollars.


 

 

[facepalm]

 

 

 

So, you wouldn't be opposed with removing these "Red Hats" from society since they are no more than animals!

 

 

 

Depends. At what point back in the day was it justified or prudent to remove the "swastika arm-band" wearers from society (because arm bands are merely inanimate objects, too)?

 

Should it have been before or after THEY started putting people on trains to exterminate them? I don't recall reading any whataboutery for literal Nazis during WWII so I guess people were less tolerant and diplomatic back then, or something. How many of the about-to-be-exterminated had said "Now let's just hear them out, don't be intolerant!" before they were murdered? Since Nazi imagery and ideology are being promoted openly again Godwin's Law does not apply here and that's more than a little disturbing, don't you think?

 

Also, anything Candace Owens is involved in is either a scam or just grandstanding bullshit. Calling her a "firebrand" is pretty funny as she's just a run-of-the-mill grifter (look into her past). She's literally one of the paid failed actors that right wingnuts have been using for precisely what they accuse the left wingnuts of using paid actors to do (though no evidence for paid actors on the left has emerged so far that I'm aware of like has been uncovered among the right). The bastards even got one of their paid actor-dingbats elected to office (Boebert).


Edited by TVCasualty, 28 September 2021 - 11:02 AM.


#1875 Juthro

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Posted 28 September 2021 - 04:58 PM

You make my point for me, a one size approach should not be used. It should not be forcing everyone to receive a vaccine, especially when not needed and in the presence of recent data that shows its fading efficacy. The one thing we all have in common is we are hopefully doing what is best for our families! I wont criticize you for that. Hopefully this virus will become more contagious and less deadly like with the evolution of other pandemics.

Aids patients are considered "at risk" I believe? 23.8 million people "at risk" in Africa and the world shrugs.


You think the efficiency of the vaccine is fading and that means people shouldn't use it, but Africa has an aids problem so we should give the vaccines to them...

 

Ow yeah, and I almost forgot, it is all China's fault, and if we cant prove it's their fault that's because they covered it up.... So the lack of clear proof proves they did it...  So we should focus on that instead of the health care crisis we are in the middle of.

 

:deadhorse:

 

 

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Edited by Juthro, 28 September 2021 - 06:49 PM.


#1876 TVCasualty

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Posted 28 September 2021 - 05:48 PM

When I saw that graph my first thought was a classic quote from Napoleon: "Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."

 

But then I remembered that their mistakes are resulting in severe consequences for some people who don't deserve them, so it's a bit of a dilemma.

 

 

Someone pointed out something that seems obvious in retrospect: T**** will never be convicted of anything significant since it would create a precedent for prosecuting billionaires or the billionaire-adjacent and they do NOT want that to become a thing (or it would eventually take them all down) so they will NOT let it happen. This might explain a lot.

 

 

I've been reading some fascinating stuff about using mRNA vaccine tech against HIV. So it might be the case that vaccine research for the ongoing pandemic might result in ending HIV/AIDS, or at least its spread. "The world" is not shrugging-off HIV/AIDS, in other words.



#1877 Juthro

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Posted 01 October 2021 - 03:29 PM

For the life of me, I cant remember where I downloaded this from, so if it was from somewhere here on 'topia, and I'm just reposting, then I apologize for my lapse of memory.   If not, then you can ignore the previous sentence :)

 

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Edited by Juthro, 01 October 2021 - 03:29 PM.

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#1878 shiftingshadows

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Posted 01 October 2021 - 09:15 PM

For the life of me, I cant remember where I downloaded this from, so if it was from somewhere here on 'topia, and I'm just reposting, then I apologize for my lapse of memory.   If not, then you can ignore the previous sentence :)

 

I think the vernacular term selfish, is more accurate than 'ass' or 'idiot'.

and the technical psychological term is 'borderline personality disorder', that has some traits in common .

I knew someone intimately, who I was told by a shrink, (who knew them) had  'borderline personality disorder', ... it fits.

She would trespass other folks boundaries, to get what she wanted.


Edited by shiftingshadows, 01 October 2021 - 09:17 PM.


#1879 coorsmikey

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Posted 01 October 2021 - 09:25 PM

 

For the life of me, I cant remember where I downloaded this from, so if it was from somewhere here on 'topia, and I'm just reposting, then I apologize for my lapse of memory.   If not, then you can ignore the previous sentence :)

 

I think the vernacular term selfish, is more accurate than 'ass' or 'idiot'.

and the technical psychological term is 'borderline personality disorder', that has some traits in common .

I knew someone intimately, who I was told by a shrink, (who knew them) had  'borderline personality disorder', ... it fits.

She would trespass other folks boundaries, to get what she wanted.

 

Alder Logs!........You Live!.....We have missed you!


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#1880 TVCasualty

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 02:07 PM

This is worth a read all by itself but I thought it was especially interesting since it mentions why using anti-viral therapies in the ICU (which I guess would include Ivermectin) don't help once a patient finds themselves there:

 

 

 

 
So, we’ve reached 34 deaths per day from COVID. It’s a shocking number that really gets swamped over by all the other numbers. I’m going to describe the usual dying process in the ICU from this disease. I’m wearing my clinical hat, be warned.
 
The trip through the ICU is serpentine. We admit patients now who not only have low oxygen levels, but are in distress. Prior to that internal medicine physicians have been providing ICU level care on the floors.
 
They treat potential coinfections, mange noncovid aspects of patient health and importantly try to turn the course of the disease with steroids and monoclonal antibody therapy. If the trajectory is set, they come to the unit to be placed on a ventilator.
 
This is where we are learning as we go. First you must understand that we are usually 14 days away from the initial infection. The virus is long gone by now. If coronavirus was the lightning storm than what we are dealing with is the wild fire that got out of control.
 
That is why none of the antiviral therapies work in the ICU. We are battling uncontrolled inflammation. You know when you bang your arm and it hurts way more the next day? Like that, but because COVID targets blood vessels it’s like banging every part of your body.
 
Just like you putting an ice pack on that bruise, we are using dexamethasone, a steroid, Tocilizumab, an interlukin blocker, and COV-REGEN2 in those who are late antibody formers. All the while we are waiting for the fire to go out, so we can see what happens next.
 
It’s what we like to call the, “do no harm phase.” This is where we try to find the balance of getting enough air in the patient so they don’t suffocate while trying not to tear up their stiff lungs and start the inflammation up again. If this were a joint you wouldn’t move it.
 
But that’s not an option, unless your a candidate for ECMO, which is where we put the patient on a lung bypass circuit. Oxygen and CO2 exchange outside the body via garden hose size cannula placed in the neck and groin. It’s pretty exceptional, & we can only do about 12 @ a time.
 
In the non ECMO pathway, we take it day by day. Our job is to protect the vulnerable patient from other things. Blood clots, bacterial infections, skin break down, kidney failure, malnutrition while we wait for the lungs to heal. It can take weeks.
 
Ok, now take a deep breath, all the way. Trust me. Just do it. Now hold it. That’s your new starting point. I want you to take your next breath from there. And your next. Don’t cheat. Pretty anxiety provoking, right?
 
To keep people with this lung disease (it’s call ARDS) from ripping their lungs apart we need to sedate them very heavily. Sometimes even paralyze them. It can make people incredibly weak, but there are no other options.
 
No for weeks we wait. Waiting for the lungs to heal. To relax. There is no clear way to predict who will get better and when. It’s an unclear pathway dictated by genetics and immunity. It’s heralded by the ventilators silence as it can relax and not push the air so hard.
 
At that point we can start to wake our patients up. There emergence is often dramatic, like coming up from deep water. We need to be gentle. Too much struggling and we can lose all of our gains.
 
I’ve seen some get better quickly. They act like good old bacterial pneumonia. Others take longer. We talk to families about tracheostomies and long term ventilation. They make progress but they will have long term complications from their journey.
 
There is however a subset. They seem to improve initially, but despite everything we do they deteriorate after a week on the ventilator. No matter what we do their lungs get stiffer and stiffer. Instead of healing, their lungs are replaced be scar tissue.
 
We search for hidden infections, scan them for blood clots, look for strange drug reactions and autoimmune disease. Over the ensuing weeks, their hearts start to fail from the tremendous work of pushing blood through fibrous lungs.
 
Deprived of blood the kidneys fail first. Dialysis will keep them going forward a while longer, but without lung transplantation the heart eventually stops. Often we sit down with families before these final things happen to let them know the path their loved ones are on.
 
We seek out there values and goals. We let them know what we can accomplish and what we can’t. It’s often choosing between the lesser of two evils, and often I am conflicted about putting people in such difficult positions.
 
The journey of dying in the ICU from #COVID19 takes on average about a 6 weeks. I have seen what that does to families.

Despite our resources and technology we can do little but support our patients and their families through the process waiting for them to heal.
 
And though most who read this thread know that vaccination can prevent almost all of this, it is why those of us in healthcare struggle knowing this is now preventable. It’s a thought that torments us through every day of those 6 weeks.
 

 

 
This was originally posted as a series of tweets, which can be found here: https://twitter.com/...577158023073796

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