Paradox
©
Fisana

Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

The difference between LSD and psilocybin


  • Please log in to reply
26 replies to this topic

#1 clumsy

clumsy

    Mycophage

  • Gold VIP
  • 125 posts

Posted 25 February 2020 - 11:26 AM

I am wondering about this report: Woman Accidentally Snorts 550 Times Usual Dose Of LSD In One Go. According to the report, this woman suffered no ill after-effects. She appeared to benefit greatly from the experience.

 

I once downed 10 g of cubes. I did that because I was having trouble getting off due to my continued use of Remeron (not anymore, though). I got really high, but not much visuals. I would not have wanted to consume any more than that. I did not feel any special insight as a result of that trip.

 

The shroom experience reminds me of my youthful LSD trips. That makes sense in that LSD and psilocybin share the same indole nucleus. I suspect that a massive overdose of shrooms akin to what that woman did would be a thoroughly unpleasant experience. So LSD and psilocybin are similar, but different.



#2 RutgerHauer

RutgerHauer

    Knows Nothing

  • Free Member
  • 1,009 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 25 February 2020 - 11:54 AM

There are a lot of other substances in mushrooms that might influence an extremely high dose in contrast to a pure psychedelic like LSD.. I would not take 500 grams of dried mushrooms anyway. It would be a challenge alone to eat them all, and I think your body won't be happy with it.


Edited by RutgerHauer, 25 February 2020 - 11:54 AM.


#3 August West

August West

    Mycotopiate

  • OG VIP
  • 3,842 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 25 February 2020 - 12:58 PM

I love that they came up with, "550 Times". Ok, well done. I'm sure that's really quantifiable. That said, it's not entirely uncommon (not that's it's common, either) for people close to the manufacturing source to ingest quantities that most people would never even imagine.

 

Ime, LSD provides a distinct and far less impactful visual experience to psilocybin. Generally speaking, it's also typically been a far more lucid experience. I've heard the opposite from other people but they are usually not people I know personally.


  • clumsy likes this

#4 clumsy

clumsy

    Mycophage

  • Gold VIP
  • 125 posts

Posted 25 February 2020 - 12:59 PM

You are correct, RutgerHauer, pure pharmaceutical-grade psilocybin might be doable at such a dose, but still, of course, risky. My wife cannot tolerate a small dose of shrooms without serious nausea.



#5 PJammer24

PJammer24

    Archetype Novice

  • OG VIP
  • 2,369 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 25 February 2020 - 01:20 PM

I love that they came up with, "550 Times". Ok, well done. I'm sure that's really quantifiable. That said, it's not entirely uncommon (not that's it's common, either) for people close to the manufacturing source to ingest quantities that most people would never even imagine.

 

Ime, LSD provides a distinct and far less impactful visual experience to psilocybin. Generally speaking, it's also typically been a far more lucid experience. I've heard the opposite from other people but they are usually not people I know personally.

assuming that a typical 100 mic hit is considered the "usual" dose, this is easily quantifiable


  • coorsmikey and FLASHINGROOSTER like this

#6 August West

August West

    Mycotopiate

  • OG VIP
  • 3,842 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 25 February 2020 - 01:23 PM


assuming that a typical 100 mic hit is considered the "usual" dose, this is easily quantifiable

 

 

Once she'd drunk her glass, she also drank the "leftover drops" from two other glasses.

 

 

How exactly do you quantify "leftover drops"?



#7 PJammer24

PJammer24

    Archetype Novice

  • OG VIP
  • 2,369 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 25 February 2020 - 01:26 PM

psilocybin is more like being poisoned with the psilocybin converting to psilocin in the body and producing the hallucinogenic experience...

 

LSD is more of a direct molecule to receptor with a more pure product better fitting that receptor like a key into a keyhole... At least this is my understanding.

 

I am not an expert on how these chemicals act on the brain but I see huge differences in the mushroom and LSD experiences... My mushroom trips and my LSD trips have NEVER been similar at all...

 

The mushroom experience is much shorter, it is more organic, it comes in waves and I feel like I have to be on my toes and constantly limber to maintain.... LSD on the other hand is a much longer experience, much brighter in my experience, the come up can be anxiety ridden an intense in some cases but once you have it locked down it is more of a straight line... I don't have to constantly maintain and work as hard to enjoy myself on LSD... I don't view the experiences as similar at all. In fact, I much prefer the LSD experience to the mushroom experience. I am lucky to have both options at my disposal...


  • Coopdog and clumsy like this

#8 ElrikEriksson

ElrikEriksson

    Mycotopiate

  • Free Member
  • 478 posts

Posted 25 February 2020 - 02:17 PM

LSD and mushrooms are very different to me. Other than a surface similarity to the patterns of visuals on low to moderate doses the feel, the course of the trip, the psychological impact all are very different.

And LSD feels like one drug. To me mushrooms feel like two drugs. 12 Minutes after dosing on mushroom tea I start going up into the visual trip and the first 90 minutes to 2 hours are the visual trip usually with little emotional or cognitive involvement. Sometimes the next phase overlaps starting as soon as 60 minutes in but sometimes it is basically separate, but I then move into the emotional, mind warping, fun, or wild part of the trip.

I actually think this is why some people think different mushroom varieties are all the same. Either they ignore the second phase as a mushroom effect, or they drown it out with cannabis or alcohol and mistake it for that drugs effect. IME the visual phase of different mushroom varieties tends to be very similar while the second phases can be dramatically different. Just compare a large dose of a thai variety to something like transkei while otherwise perfectly sober.

The LSD trip actually resembles an ideal pharmacokinetic curve with its build up, peak, and gradual come down.


  • clumsy likes this

#9 elfstone

elfstone

    Mycotopiate

  • Black VIP
  • 345 posts

Donator


Awards Bar:

Posted 28 February 2020 - 04:06 AM

LSD locks into the 5HT2A receptor site for 12 hours while psilocin cycles through within 4 to 6 hours, depending on the dosage.  Because of this long-lasting bond LSD has in the receptor site, many folks report that the tail end is a bit annoying as one is ready to rest but the material maintains a stimulating effect.  I think each has its own unique effects and applications.  My first experience with a psychedelic was in the spring of 1971 with "orange sunshine" that somehow made its way through to my small Midwestern country town and was procured by my girlfriend at the time.  Naively, I dropped it at the end of my work shift and then walked through a beautiful winter evening over to my girlfriend's home.  As the LSD experience began, I was walking through a lovely snow fall, with large fat flakes drifting slowly down to the ground.  I noticed rainbows flashing off of the snowflakes from the streetlight I was passing.  Then the mind did a figure-ground shift and awareness of the space between each snowflake arose, which expanded to awareness between the Earth and stars and the realization arose that space is consciousness and consciousness was the ground of all Being.  The Mind awoke to itself and I was, gracefully and gratefully, completely undone forever.  I arrived at my girlfiend's house and spent time with her and her parents, smiling and listening and feeling the fullness of loving everyone.  This was the core experience for me at that time, at 17 years of age.  There was contact with a universal consciousness but it seemed utterly transcendent and when I came back down remained more a memory than a daily staple of lived experience.

 

I did not encounter the mushroom until 1974, when my college professor, with whom I smoked weed, provided me with some little brown psilocybin mushrooms which he had come across, giving them all to me, knowing my interest.  In retrospect, I am reasonably confident that these were Ps. semperviva, given their size and potency.  I shared them with one of my college girlfriends at the time and once again found my heart opening to that unfathomable universal love.  That night I had a dream that a UFO was hovering over the house in which we lived as students, rented to us by my professor, and it sent a tentacle with an eye at the end down the chimney, through the foyer, up the stairs and into my bedroom.  It was a lucid dream and I became aware that I was being observed by some higher intelligence.  It wasn't until Terence and Dennis McKenna released their little grow guide in 1976, along with the Amazonian spores through Terence's company, Lux Natura, that a secure supply of the mushroom was procured.  Unlike LSD, there was contact with a living spirit that had specific intent for me and communicated it quite clearly over serial sessions undertaken in a Samadhi isolation tank I had purchased.  As I have documented elsewhere, direct instructions were always given in each session.  The first order of business was to become clear about what I was called to do in life, which was not what I was doing at the time.  I felt constrained by the line of work I had chosen and had a dream of pursuing another livelihood and path of service, which I had initially conceived at age 14, but did not follow at that time.  I was pursuing chemistry but found that it lacked heart for me and so took the decision, under the prompting of the little saints, to return to college and pursue a career in clinical psychology.  I was also told that to do the work I was being called to do, I had to clean house, beginning with eliminating all bad habits/vices I had acquired along the way in my youthful ignorance, including alcohol, cannabis and nicotine.  I dutifully followed the guidance I was receiving and then the visionary doors opened and deepened beyond anything I had ever conceived of.  In retrospect, 45 years later, I see it as the guidance of the Spirit that had emerged through the open-hearted sincerity and intent to grow and understand.  I was then led to read the collected works of Carl Jung, all 20 volumes, as well as Freud and Adler, which I still have on my shelf and continue to study.  Jung was the only writer who captured what was emerging in my own inner process and I also recognized the Language of the Soul being expressed in alchemy and alchemical symbolism.  This was the language of the mushroom as well and I was being taught the syntax and grammar of it first hand by the spirit of the mushroom and the spirit of Carl Jung.  Eventually, I was led to study William Biake, through Kathleen Raine's book Blake and Tradition, and the translations of Plato through Thomas Taylor and some of the more current translators, and eventually the Pre-Socratic Greek philosophers, Parmenides and Empedocles, as well as the mystical Sufi tradition through the writing of Henri Corbin, and so on and so forth, which continues to this day.  Once awakened, the spirit requires nourishment for its continued growth.  Learning is always a delight!

 

Over the years, from time to time, I have returned to LSD and note that it always activates the cosmic consciousness that I first encountered as a youth in1971.  It has also taken me back to witnessing my own birth, in a very literal way, finding myself suspended in the operating room where I was delivered, experiencing the entire thing as lucidly as any experience in daily life. I had the realization that there is a universal memory bank, call it the Akashic record or hyparxis, where every event that has ever happened is preserved in eternity, and that one can direct intention towards accessing those memories and the door opens.  The Universe is deep and mysterious and we have only begun to scratch the surface of what is possible.  But the LSD does not open the door to the spirit that animates the mushroom, the Niños Santos, which is playful, gentle at the beginning, but potentially deeply powerful and even potentially overwhelming as one progresses though the stages of working with it.  When I first read the Bhagavad Gita, where Arjuna asks Krishna to reveal Himself and he becomes overwhelmed, I recognized a description of the same experience that I had as a youth with the spirit in the mushroom.  Over the years, there is no longer any sense of being overwhelmed, but of welcoming the Friend into my body, mind, heart and soul.  The best language that begins to express some of this in a way that can be understood is poetry.  Rumi captures some of it beautifully as does George MacDonald.  And now, since the Friend has arrived, the mushroom is no longer necessary, but I find its salutary effects to be refreshing and healing and still feel drawn to continue working with it.  I do not feel drawn to work with LSD.  It seems that I have gotten what I can from working with it, though, if the call arises, I would have no hesitation in opening the bottle and dropping 300ug again.  Unlike the mushroom, which leaves one feeling at ease and refreshed in the days after, LSD requires several days to become fully grounded again.  It has a psychostimulant effect similar to mescaline and I suspect it also affects the dopamine system, hence its initial positive spin.  Psilocin on the other hand is more specific to the 5HT2A receptor and enters and leaves the body more quickly.  It also requires training and experience to access its full potential.  With proper training, the mushroom opens doors in the psyche that I have never experinced with LSD.  I probably should add that I have had direct experience with each of these tools hundreds of times over the past 45 years and know them very well.  I would encourage folks to explore both and find out for themselves what each is capable of doing for one and what one is capable of doing with it.


Edited by elfstone, 28 February 2020 - 04:13 AM.

  • coorsmikey, Coopdog, Tenderfoot and 9 others like this

#10 PJammer24

PJammer24

    Archetype Novice

  • OG VIP
  • 2,369 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 28 February 2020 - 11:43 AM

 


assuming that a typical 100 mic hit is considered the "usual" dose, this is easily quantifiable

 

 

Once she'd drunk her glass, she also drank the "leftover drops" from two other glasses.

 

 

How exactly do you quantify "leftover drops"?

 

She sniffed it thinking it was cocaine.... She was sniffing raw crystal, not leftover drops...



#11 August West

August West

    Mycotopiate

  • OG VIP
  • 3,842 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 28 February 2020 - 12:30 PM

I had to go back and reread it. I initially thought 550x was being ascribed to the first story in the article. Not the the third.

 

Carry on.


  • PJammer24 likes this

#12 FLASHINGROOSTER

FLASHINGROOSTER

    Semi-Pro Taco Robot

  • Black VIP
  • 1,805 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 28 February 2020 - 06:10 PM

That sure sounded like one hell of a trip. Makes me feel a little better about getting floored from my last high dose of psi. 

 

 

They are definitely different. I have yet to do a large dose of cid for some reason, two tab's at the most. They were staggered as well, maybe another after three or four hours. That could affect my perspective of it, mushrooms seem to be more of a roller coaster with great highs and sometimes weird lows. The cid was more of a smooth ride, less highs but then also less lows. It may be a crack pot theory but I feel that it also seem to improve the effect of imprinting memories while dosing  

 

Over all more easy going.

 

I think the one thing that we can all agree on is the time difference. Cid last's much longer than psi

 

I wonder what's highest dose yall have taken of cid?


Edited by flashingrooster, 28 February 2020 - 06:26 PM.


#13 YoshiTrainer

YoshiTrainer

    Onion tied to belt

  • Gold VIP
  • 644 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 28 February 2020 - 08:04 PM

LSD was an all day trip, usually for fun and "tripping". It'd leave you exausted for a day or two afterwards. It is amazing such a small amount ingested can take over your entire world for hours. On occasion, we'd cut a tab into 9 or 16 pieces and take a micro dose or two before going water skiing and drinking at the lake. The micro doses would let you party all day without slowing down.

Mushrooms on the other hand tended to be more spiritual, peaceful and even life changing. You could turn to them in confusing times to help you find your way. The first few hours can allow you to see yourself without all your protective layers, naked and vulnerable. They've allowed me to overcome doubt, anxieties and given me a better understanding of my place in the world and history. Mushrooms have changed my life and are partially responsible for who I am today.
  • Coopdog likes this

#14 TVCasualty

TVCasualty

    Embrace Your Damage

  • Moderator
  • 13,492 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 29 February 2020 - 11:14 AM

I am wondering about this report: Woman Accidentally Snorts 550 Times Usual Dose Of LSD In One Go. According to the report, this woman suffered no ill after-effects. She appeared to benefit greatly from the experience.

 

To have an “overdose” range that wide (at least 2 orders of magnitude! And 3 out of 3 reports were positive!) suggests the concept of an “overdose” may be inapplicable to LSD. I'd be curious to know how her dose compares to a typical thumbprint dose (in terms of amount).

 

That's probably also largely true for fungi, though it might not be for extreme doses of pure psilocin. I've eaten a half ounce of bone-dry cubes and it lasted longer than usual but otherwise didn't seem to take me any further than ~8 grams does. But that was far enough; it felt like I was at some sort of hard limit to the intensity of what my mind could handle while still maintaining the sufficiently-cohesive sense of self necessary to experience it.

 

My highest dose of DMT did that, too. In both cases it seemed like my awareness was so close to its absolute upper limit that it was momentarily crossing that limit and briefly losing awareness of itself/myself, which probably coincided with the memory gaps I was left with afterward. I guess that was better than my brain literally exploding, which felt like a genuine possibility.

 

And I have to give the author of that article credit for coming up with a great psychedelic-clickbait title. Or maybe it was the Editor.

 

 

Anyway, one thing I've noticed about LSD vs. fungi is that I'm much better able to learn a new physical skill on LSD, but if I already know how to do something then both make me do it much, much better in terms of technical ability. I went with a friend on a ski trip once and forgot to mention that I didn't know how to ski until we were standing on the mountain, lol.

 

I'd brought a few 10-strips of a good batch of blotter and took a couple on the way up the mountain and did so every day that week. Thanks to the LSD I went from not knowing how to clip my boots into the bindings on my skis to following my expert-level friend down icy double black-diamond runs in three days (without falling! EVER!). It was a total whiteout the entire week, too. It was surreal, and sublime (one of the wildest and most intense weeks of my entire life; two minor highlights including getting run over by a train -literally- and when the first 747 I tried to fly back to the States in blew out an engine in a spectacular fireball as we accelerated to take off, which began an epic 36-hour adventure unto itself).

 

With fungi I tend to get tangled up in my gear a lot more easily if I'm unfamiliar with what I'm doing (when I'm not high-dose tripping deep in the dark, that is), but I do love to run rapids on my boogie board on moderate doses (3g or lower). I prefer LSD for mountain biking because of all the uphill parts (heavy exertion during a trip has always been a lot easier for me when I'm on LSD vs. fungi).

 

 

That ski trip made me think that LSD could be considered survival gear, and that we should have some stashed in our bug-out bags. The first 3 days I had no ski goggles, just sunglasses and since it was a whiteout all day they didn't keep the snow from stinging my eyes, not to mention the very cold wind that never stopped (it was bright enough to require sunglasses but not sunny enough to help with warmth so the wind chill was extra-crispy). But I was going up and down that mountain all day long with an ear-to-ear grin and I felt no discomfort until the snow started falling so hard I couldn't see at all (so I gave up and squinted my way to the Alpenhaus and bought a stupidly-overpriced set of goggles).

 

I was spending all day in truly terrible conditions feeling great, and felt like I could have easily built myself a shelter or hiked for miles in a blizzard if I had to without succumbing to the cold. I was also eating huge piles of pasta every day, so it would be prudent to test how well LSD works to help me survive a blizzard without the luxury of carbo-loading first before I'd consider it to be an actual survival tool (but I think it's a hypothesis worth exploring; if nothing else it keeps you awake, which can keep you moving and thereby save your life if you're starting to go hypothermic).


Edited by TVCasualty, 29 February 2020 - 11:16 AM.

  • tailsmcsnails, clumsy and ElrikEriksson like this

#15 ElrikEriksson

ElrikEriksson

    Mycotopiate

  • Free Member
  • 478 posts

Posted 29 February 2020 - 01:41 PM

That's a good point. I've never attacked a mountain in a blizzard on LSD but I've gone on many hikes in hilly country on acid and its an awesome combination.

I wouldn't do that on mushrooms, I've also found I can't lift weights on mushrooms. But I can roll in my bed playing with a pear for hours! :tongue:

if nothing else it keeps you awake, which can keep you moving and thereby save your life if you're starting to go hypothermic).

You just gave me an idea. I should put 60mg mescaline•HCl + 200mg caffeine pills in my emergency kit. 60mg Mescaline and a strong cup of coffee gives me energy and appetite suppression for 8 hours.

Could be handy when fighting off zombies or escaping the sneezepocalypse.


  • TVCasualty and YoshiTrainer like this

#16 Alder Logs

Alder Logs

    ૐ शान्तिः शान्तिः शान्तिः ૐ

  • Moderator
  • 15,023 posts

Donator


Awards Bar:

Posted 29 February 2020 - 03:41 PM

Don't do what I once did and hide capped ground liberty caps (15 mushrooms per 00 cap) in a bottle of similarly colored herb capsules and forget you did it. 

 

I took my evening herbs and supplements not long before bedtime one night when I had to get up early the next morning. 

 

D'oh!  But then, this isn't the difference between psilocybin and turmeric thread. 


  • TVCasualty and tailsmcsnails like this

#17 TVCasualty

TVCasualty

    Embrace Your Damage

  • Moderator
  • 13,492 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 29 February 2020 - 10:59 PM

 

You just gave me an idea. I should put 60mg mescaline•HCl + 200mg caffeine pills in my emergency kit. 60mg Mescaline and a strong cup of coffee gives me energy and appetite suppression for 8 hours.

Could be handy when fighting off zombies or escaping the sneezepocalypse.

 

My thinking is to take it as a Last Hope kind of thing, when you're going hypothermic out lost somewhere at night and can't get a fire going or a shelter set up/built and it's getting bad-bad. Then you stop shivering and going to sleep starts to seem really, really enticing... That means it's time to drop acid or die! Which is kind of a trip.

 

 

 

Don't do what I once did and hide capped ground liberty caps (15 mushrooms per 00 cap) in a bottle of similarly colored herb capsules and forget you did it. 

 

But forgetting what we hid the goodies in (or whomever found them not knowing) is how some of my (and many of my friends') best stories start!


  • Coopdog likes this

#18 FLASHINGROOSTER

FLASHINGROOSTER

    Semi-Pro Taco Robot

  • Black VIP
  • 1,805 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 01 March 2020 - 02:13 AM

I find acid makes me cold., even as far a a few days afterwards. I do not enjoy that feeling in the winter. The wind seems to cut right through



#19 TVCasualty

TVCasualty

    Embrace Your Damage

  • Moderator
  • 13,492 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 01 March 2020 - 09:19 AM

I find acid makes me cold., even as far a a few days afterwards. I do not enjoy that feeling in the winter. The wind seems to cut right through

 

IME some psychedelics seem to follow something very close to Newton's First Law of Motion.

 

If I start an acid or mushroom trip while moving or exerting myself (hiking, biking, skiing, etc.) I tend to keep moving until I come down or bonk (energy crash). If I start one laying comfortably in bed or sitting by a fire I tend to stay there for the duration, too. If I'm doing it outside in Winter (without a fire) then I always start tripping in motion (usually just walking around) since otherwise I'd get too cold, too.

 

When it comes to tripping outside, unless I'm doing something that warms me up a lot (mountain biking, hiking up steep trails) I need to dress for about 20 degrees colder than I normally would to be 100% warm and comfortable the whole time (that plus adequate hydration). If I go out tripping when it's 20F, I'll dress like it's 0F. This also adds a margin of safety if something unexpected happens.


Edited by TVCasualty, 01 March 2020 - 09:19 AM.

  • Skywatcher likes this

#20 swayambhu

swayambhu

    Mycotopiate

  • Free Member
  • 242 posts

Posted 01 March 2020 - 09:46 AM

I find acid makes me cold., even as far a a few days afterwards. I do not enjoy that feeling in the winter. The wind seems to cut right through


I’ve not acid for so long I can’t remember, but mushrooms definitely make me feel cold for days afterwards.




Like Mycotopia? Become a member today!