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#1 Shayazat

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Posted 20 March 2020 - 06:07 AM

Hey guys,

 

I am a new member here, been stalking the forums for 2 weeks now. I am here to learn more about cultivating mushrooms. I have a few sorts of spores such as Wollongong, Allen2, Alabama and McKenna2.

 

I have never grown them from scratch, but had experience with grow kits ordered online.

 

I'm 28 years old and have been really into psychedelics for a few years. My first experience was tripping on Salvia and LSD when I was 19.

 

My goal from psychedelics is to improve my character and deal with some issues that haunt me from the past. Also, I don't mind using them in a party ambient either to have fun and connect with new people easier and in an honest, positive way.

 

I hope someone will be able to teach me how to grow from spores.


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#2 Alpoehi

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 04:16 AM

I love the combination partying (basically sitting on a sofa with my headphones on deep dubstep music or other genre of electronic music) and deeply dwelling on my life or whatever comes in my mind.

I began with petries buying 20 prepoured dishes. Managed to get a grow from spore to fruit from that.

Making petrie dishes for oneself is not a difficult task. All it takes is some work to do that.

Wish you good luck in your efforts.

And welcome here on Mycotopia.



#3 Fungi2b

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 04:23 AM

Welcome to the site proper. If you wanna grow from spores I would get agar and Petri dishes ordered. If your gonna take the time to do it then you may as well start out right. Agar work will help immensely allowing you to isolate your mushrooms away from any contamination that may be on the prints. Also allowing you to pick the best growing colonies to expand.

#4 Shayazat

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 11:02 AM

Welcome to the site proper. If you wanna grow from spores I would get agar and Petri dishes ordered. If your gonna take the time to do it then you may as well start out right. Agar work will help immensely allowing you to isolate your mushrooms away from any contamination that may be on the prints. Also allowing you to pick the best growing colonies to expand.

I need to learn what is Agar and what are Petri dishes first xD. I need some good resources in order to make the best out of 4 spore prints I got.


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#5 Alpoehi

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 11:50 AM

OK I start out with Agar. It's also called agar-agar (no joke). It's an algae and it's used to make jelly. It is available in granulate, powder or in stripes.

I wouldn't recommend the stripes because when you boil them they won't dissolve properly. Same with the granule. It looks like dissolving but on the plates (petrie dishes) you will see that it has not. Which is not so much a problem.

Better get some agar powder. But be careful what you get here. There is agar powder on the market that is 25% agar only, mixed with 75% dextrose. Make sure you get 100% agar. 

I got mine from a seller in Austria glueckspilze.at I show it here on the photo. There is also a jar with malt extract that is commonly used as a sugar in agar plates. Malt extract you can get also in liquid form.

Some use dextrose sugar instead of malt extract. It depends on the recipe you use. Some recipes use yeast, some peptone. Basically it's enough for a start when you have agar and a sugar.

For making agar according to a suitable recipe you will need a pressure cooker because you have to heat the petrie dishes and the agar solution to 120 deg Celsius for it to be sterile.

The petrie dishes have to be made from glass for that reason, those made from Polystyrol  would melt at a temp of 80 deg C.

So basically when you want to make your own petrie dishes it starts with shopping what you need for them.

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#6 roc

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 11:02 PM

Welcome to 'Topia!



#7 Shayazat

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Posted 23 March 2020 - 06:14 AM

OK I start out with Agar. It's also called agar-agar (no joke). It's an algae and it's used to make jelly. It is available in granulate, powder or in stripes.

I wouldn't recommend the stripes because when you boil them they won't dissolve properly. Same with the granule. It looks like dissolving but on the plates (petrie dishes) you will see that it has not. Which is not so much a problem.

Better get some agar powder. But be careful what you get here. There is agar powder on the market that is 25% agar only, mixed with 75% dextrose. Make sure you get 100% agar. 

I got mine from a seller in Austria glueckspilze.at I show it here on the photo. There is also a jar with malt extract that is commonly used as a sugar in agar plates. Malt extract you can get also in liquid form.

Some use dextrose sugar instead of malt extract. It depends on the recipe you use. Some recipes use yeast, some peptone. Basically it's enough for a start when you have agar and a sugar.

For making agar according to a suitable recipe you will need a pressure cooker because you have to heat the petrie dishes and the agar solution to 120 deg Celsius for it to be sterile.

The petrie dishes have to be made from glass for that reason, those made from Polystyrol  would melt at a temp of 80 deg C.

So basically when you want to make your own petrie dishes it starts with shopping what you need for them.

Thanks man. Is Agar a replacement for Rye Flour? I was advised by some people to use Rye Flour.

 

Also, what's the deal with petri dishes, do you have any info on that?



#8 Alpoehi

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Posted 23 March 2020 - 07:13 AM

Hi Shayazat

 

Hope you are well, heard of the earthquake in Croatia. Seen the photos from the broken steeple in Zagreb.

 

In principle when you have spores you can make direct inoculation in a jar filled with cooked rye.

However it is not advised due to contamination risk. The spores could contain bacteria or other spores, soon you could end up having a green or black fungus growing in your jar.

 

That's the reason why agar plates (petrie dishes) are used. You inoculate directly on the agar under sterile conditions. Something will grow and if there is a contaminant you will be able to identify it and either remove it, make a transfer (shift a healthy piece of fast growing mycelium to another agar plate), or toss it.

 

I have purchased sterile spore syringes from a laboratory, with them I can inoculate my jars directly. Some here in this forum make their own spore syringes but that is a skill in itself. Also, you cannot predict what comes out of your grow when you make multispore inoculation (There are millions of spores in one spore syringe). It can happen that your grow will not fruit. Then you will wait weeks for something to happen, and nothing happens, no mushrooms.

On agar you have more control, because you can make a selection before you inoculate a jar.

 

Rye flour I haven't heard about so far but there are so many methods. I use rice flour mixed with vermiculite. However rye is used as whole grain pressure cooked with a certain amount of water, or cooked and put in a pressure cooker for the ongoing cultivation of the mycelium you have grown in your dishes. It is the 2nd step in mushroom cultivation after having cultivated your spores on petrie dishes. You see everything on your petrie dishes and you will be able to identify the best, fast growing mycelium on it.

In the beginning you can make one transfer of rizomorphic mycelium to another plate. Google rizomorphic for what it means.

 

After that let it grow until 3/4 of the dish is covered. Then you can inoculate a jar with it.

When the jar is fully cultivated, you can use it for spawning a larger tub.

 

It's all described here on Mycotopia in various threads, I'm just showing the principle, a facet of how to do it.

The more you do it, the more you will understand.

 

 

 


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#9 Choices

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Posted 23 March 2020 - 08:43 PM

Welcome to topia, My friend. Seems like your well
On your way.
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#10 Choices

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Posted 23 March 2020 - 08:47 PM

Hi Shayazat

Hope you are well, heard of the earthquake in Croatia. Seen the photos from the broken steeple in Zagreb.

In principle when you have spores you can make direct inoculation in a jar filled with cooked rye.
However it is not advised due to contamination risk. The spores could contain bacteria or other spores, soon you could end up having a green or black fungus growing in your jar.

That's the reason why agar plates (petrie dishes) are used. You inoculate directly on the agar under sterile conditions. Something will grow and if there is a contaminant you will be able to identify it and either remove it, make a transfer (shift a healthy piece of fast growing mycelium to another agar plate), or toss it.

I have purchased sterile spore syringes from a laboratory, with them I can inoculate my jars directly. Some here in this forum make their own spore syringes but that is a skill in itself. Also, you cannot predict what comes out of your grow when you make multispore inoculation (There are millions of spores in one spore syringe). It can happen that your grow will not fruit. Then you will wait weeks for something to happen, and nothing happens, no mushrooms.
On agar you have more control, because you can make a selection before you inoculate a jar.

Rye flour I haven't heard about so far but there are so many methods. I use rice flour mixed with vermiculite. However rye is used as whole grain pressure cooked with a certain amount of water, or cooked and put in a pressure cooker for the ongoing cultivation of the mycelium you have grown in your dishes. It is the 2nd step in mushroom cultivation after having cultivated your spores on petrie dishes. You see everything on your petrie dishes and you will be able to identify the best, fast growing mycelium on it.
In the beginning you can make one transfer of rizomorphic mycelium to another plate. Google rizomorphic for what it means.

After that let it grow until 3/4 of the dish is covered. Then you can inoculate a jar with it.
When the jar is fully cultivated, you can use it for spawning a larger tub.

It's all described here on Mycotopia in various threads, I'm just showing the principle, a facet of how to do it.
The more you do it, the more you will understand.


Wonderfully put. In all honesty if that was something I read as i starred to get into this crazy hobby I would have had a better grip on things. No doubt.
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#11 FunG

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 10:27 AM

Agar heads!

:p

Or you can make a spore syringe, test it on a sterilized grain jar, if all works well and no contamination then the syringe can be used to mass innoc and depending on the spore load in the syringe, the clean spore solution can be expanded on by diluting with sterilized water allowing for 10cc to become 100 and if the syringe is clean then all you have to do is label each new set of jars 1,2,3 everytime you draw in new water that way if a problem arises you'll know at what point the cutt of is and know which to monitor (just made a long rec even longer ) ....dont ever mass innoc first! Also if the syringe is clean you can keep the tester jar and use it for a propigation process known as grain to grain. (Read about it)

That's how I roll....but assuming the syringe is dirty and its you're only source of spores then yea, agar would be required to clean up a healthy culture from the dirty syringe.

Trying to save you a step....just please remember the golden rule, never ever mass innoc prior to testing and you'll be rocking out Ms grows in no time. Agar requires a glovebox/flow hood which you probably dont have but the GB(glovebox) is cheaper then a flow hood to construct, there are some mighty good tutorials for their step by step assembly on mycotopia and internet in general so If you wish to go the agar route then that's what you'll need to do first.

Sponsor syringes are usually 95% of the time clean, I've ordered from various vendors about a dozen times and only ever received one bad batch of spore syringes and it was after someone else took over the buisness ;)

So yea, whichever way you find easier....its your decision. But learning agar is always the end result for genetic isolation and cloning for canopy flushes and what not...its advanced but simple shit.

Ans no, I havnt been drinking while posting! Not me sir's , ma'ama and both's!
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#12 FunG

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 10:27 AM

Double post, do'h!

Edited by FunG, 24 March 2020 - 10:28 AM.


#13 Shayazat

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Posted 05 April 2020 - 05:36 PM

Agar heads!

:p

Or you can make a spore syringe, test it on a sterilized grain jar, if all works well and no contamination then the syringe can be used to mass innoc and depending on the spore load in the syringe, the clean spore solution can be expanded on by diluting with sterilized water allowing for 10cc to become 100 and if the syringe is clean then all you have to do is label each new set of jars 1,2,3 everytime you draw in new water that way if a problem arises you'll know at what point the cutt of is and know which to monitor (just made a long rec even longer ) ....dont ever mass innoc first! Also if the syringe is clean you can keep the tester jar and use it for a propigation process known as grain to grain. (Read about it)

That's how I roll....but assuming the syringe is dirty and its you're only source of spores then yea, agar would be required to clean up a healthy culture from the dirty syringe.

Trying to save you a step....just please remember the golden rule, never ever mass innoc prior to testing and you'll be rocking out Ms grows in no time. Agar requires a glovebox/flow hood which you probably dont have but the GB(glovebox) is cheaper then a flow hood to construct, there are some mighty good tutorials for their step by step assembly on mycotopia and internet in general so If you wish to go the agar route then that's what you'll need to do first.

Sponsor syringes are usually 95% of the time clean, I've ordered from various vendors about a dozen times and only ever received one bad batch of spore syringes and it was after someone else took over the buisness ;)

So yea, whichever way you find easier....its your decision. But learning agar is always the end result for genetic isolation and cloning for canopy flushes and what not...its advanced but simple shit.

Ans no, I havnt been drinking while posting! Not me sir's , ma'ama and both's!

Thanks for the tips Alpoehi and FunG! I was quite busy last few days so just got a chance to read this.

I have spore prints which I got from FSRE. I need to process those in syringes.

Then, I got some Vermiculite and Coco Coir. My question about those is if I should add whole grain rye or rye flour to the 2 before mentioned. Or should I stick with Coco and Vermiculite only.

Another skill to learn is sterilization with pressure cooker, which I don't have but might buy if sterilization is not possible with a regular cooking pot. Then again, I read about people doing all this with no sterilization.

After sterilizing rye / coco / vermiculite, I read I should drop spores from the syringes on rye or coco, but not vermiculite. Vermiculite is only for keeping the humidity levels in check from what I read and is mixed in later.

Finally, how long can I keep the spores in the syringe before they go bad? I heard prints are good for a few years, but didn't see any mention of how long can they be in liquid form in syringes.

I have also ordered a heating mat to help with the temperature in the first part of the process when mycelium is being formed. After the cake is all white, I can remove them from the heating mat, having in mind my room temperature is over 22 which it always is. And never more than 25. I'm talking in Celsius.

Off-topic, but an update, the earthquake was not as scary as it looks on pictures / videos. There was not so much damage and only the oldest buildings had damaged roofs or facade. If facade is the right word for it xD. Unfortunately, 1 child died which made it quite an event. Additionally, everyone left their homes, went outside, grouped up and talked with each other waiting for the situation to calm down: but that was even more unfortunate happening as we are now seeing a rise in people infected with the most recent corona virus...

Personally I am not scared about the virus and think I should get infected in order to boost my immunity and enrich my gene pool. Because, myself and a few friends, one of them being a PhD in Biology keeps telling us we are doing a big mistake evading this virus with the quarantine measures and not gaining the immunity from it, because if another, stronger one comes in 10 years or so, we are all going down with absolutely no chance of fighting back.

Edited by Shayazat, 05 April 2020 - 05:38 PM.

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#14 Alpoehi

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Posted 06 April 2020 - 10:27 AM

What I suggest you starting with is to inoculate a jar filled with sterilized rye when using a spore syringe. You wrote:

 

 

 

After sterilizing rye / coco / vermiculite, I read I should drop spores from the syringes on rye or coco, but not vermiculite. Vermiculite is only for keeping the humidity levels in check from what I read and is mixed in later.

That's the next step. When the rye jar has been cultivated with mycelium, you would use the content to spawn a substrate in a larger casing.

Usually coco coir is used, some use vermiculite, most add manure to the substrate.

In case vermiculite is used for moisture, it is for rolling a cake (content of a jar) in moistened vermiculite. That's another tek where you would use rye grain only and let the mycelium fruit on a cake without spawning a casing..

 

I would suggest you focus on making jars filled with rye, inoculating them with your spore syringe. But there is no method without sterilization, some use fermentation for the substrate but that has nothing to do with the mycelium itself.

The growth in the jar may take 10 days and more. By the way when you have already 22 deg C you don't need a heating pad. Optimal temperature is 23 deg C.

It can cause trouble with contaminants when the temperature is too high. For the same reason I would not use rice flour. Replace rice flour with rye.

A spore syringe can be stored for years, depending on sterility. Always use heat-resistant jars in the pressure cooker for safety, like the ones you get for making preserves or similar.

 

There are many threads on the different teks here on 'topia but I'm not a specialist in making reference to them. But anyway, once you have inoculated your jars there's plenty of time to get to read all of the useful information here. I just can give an overview because I know it can be very confusing in the beginning. Good luck and good health!


Edited by Alpoehi, 06 April 2020 - 10:28 AM.

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#15 Shayazat

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Posted 13 April 2020 - 02:33 PM

What I suggest you starting with is to inoculate a jar filled with sterilized rye when using a spore syringe. You wrote:

 

 

 

After sterilizing rye / coco / vermiculite, I read I should drop spores from the syringes on rye or coco, but not vermiculite. Vermiculite is only for keeping the humidity levels in check from what I read and is mixed in later.

That's the next step. When the rye jar has been cultivated with mycelium, you would use the content to spawn a substrate in a larger casing.

Usually coco coir is used, some use vermiculite, most add manure to the substrate.

In case vermiculite is used for moisture, it is for rolling a cake (content of a jar) in moistened vermiculite. That's another tek where you would use rye grain only and let the mycelium fruit on a cake without spawning a casing..

 

I would suggest you focus on making jars filled with rye, inoculating them with your spore syringe. But there is no method without sterilization, some use fermentation for the substrate but that has nothing to do with the mycelium itself.

The growth in the jar may take 10 days and more. By the way when you have already 22 deg C you don't need a heating pad. Optimal temperature is 23 deg C.

It can cause trouble with contaminants when the temperature is too high. For the same reason I would not use rice flour. Replace rice flour with rye.

A spore syringe can be stored for years, depending on sterility. Always use heat-resistant jars in the pressure cooker for safety, like the ones you get for making preserves or similar.

 

There are many threads on the different teks here on 'topia but I'm not a specialist in making reference to them. But anyway, once you have inoculated your jars there's plenty of time to get to read all of the useful information here. I just can give an overview because I know it can be very confusing in the beginning. Good luck and good health!

Hey Alpoehi,

 

Thanks for more details.

 

I was advised to look into adding Shungite ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shungite ) into the mix with Vermiculite, Rye and Coco Coir. What do you think about that? It's supposed to be revolutionary component in agriculture.


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#16 Alpoehi

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Posted 13 April 2020 - 02:57 PM

I would use Shungite or Shungite water on my cacti. The mushrooms should have plenty of nutrients in a substrate with manure. And when you grow cakes on rye also. Some add gypsum to the substrate for a nutritional extra. I use Calciumcarbonate for that reason, but only a little.

#17 Shayazat

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Posted 14 April 2020 - 05:52 PM

I would use Shungite or Shungite water on my cacti. The mushrooms should have plenty of nutrients in a substrate with manure. And when you grow cakes on rye also. Some add gypsum to the substrate for a nutritional extra. I use Calciumcarbonate for that reason, but only a little.

And what do you think about Prolom Water for spraying over and cold flushes?



#18 Alpoehi

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Posted 15 April 2020 - 01:37 PM

Had to google this never heard of that. I don't know really.

Regarding mushrooms, I use tap water, we have spring water out of the pipe with lots of calcium and minerals in it.

I dunk the cakes in it, the mushrooms seem to do well with it.

For my cacti I use rainwater and not the tap water.

 

But the mushrooms really don't need special measures, they just grow on something, metabolize it and give off spores with their fruits.

A real experience of that is when you cultivate on fresh milled rice flour 1/3 mixed with 2/3 vermiculite in a grow bag.

Once it's fully colonized you take it out the bag and place it in a fruiting chamber. This method works well with spore syringe inoculation.

It will bring you a fast grow, rich first flush, and when the flush comes out, the whole thing starts rotting and dies off.

At the same time the fruits ripen and blast off their spores.

 

Often it gives only one flush and dies soon afterwards. I love watching that. It tells so much about nature and how it works.

It's the sacred cycle of life and I feel honored by the mushrooms I am allowed to take away from the dying thing.

A transformation - a metamorphosis. A good trip, after all.



#19 Shayazat

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Posted 15 April 2020 - 03:15 PM

Had to google this never heard of that. I don't know really.

Regarding mushrooms, I use tap water, we have spring water out of the pipe with lots of calcium and minerals in it.

I dunk the cakes in it, the mushrooms seem to do well with it.

For my cacti I use rainwater and not the tap water.

 

But the mushrooms really don't need special measures, they just grow on something, metabolize it and give off spores with their fruits.

A real experience of that is when you cultivate on fresh milled rice flour 1/3 mixed with 2/3 vermiculite in a grow bag.

Once it's fully colonized you take it out the bag and place it in a fruiting chamber. This method works well with spore syringe inoculation.

It will bring you a fast grow, rich first flush, and when the flush comes out, the whole thing starts rotting and dies off.

At the same time the fruits ripen and blast off their spores.

 

Often it gives only one flush and dies soon afterwards. I love watching that. It tells so much about nature and how it works.

It's the sacred cycle of life and I feel honored by the mushrooms I am allowed to take away from the dying thing.

A transformation - a metamorphosis. A good trip, after all.

Definitely well said. I enjoyed it haha. I will give it a try since I have a lot of spores.

 

1 cake will be with Prolom Water. The other will be with Shungite. The 3rd one will be combination of both.

 

The rest of the cakes will be Rye Seeds + Coco Coir + Vermiculite and regular tap water. That will be the base for the 1st, 2nd and 3rd cake as well.


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#20 Alpoehi

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Posted 15 April 2020 - 03:33 PM

Good luck with that. Why not post here what you plan to do in a new thread. Most of us here make jars with rye seeds, inoculate in them, let it colonize and then, when fully colonized, mix it with coir, vermiculite and other stuff like horse poop.

Would be interesting to see what others have to comment here.


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