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Question about too much humidity/moisture stalling fruiting.


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#1 picapau

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 04:42 PM

Hey...I hope this is an apt place for this question.

 

I have a few dozen brf cakes in fruiting phase and the fruiting is not really happening.

 

I've never had this happen but what from I have read I may have it too wet/humid.

 

This is the first time I dunked the cakes right after birthing vs just placing them into the fruiting chamber.

I dunked them for 20 hours and they are all sitting on a 3 inch bed of strained perlite.

 

I initially was misting them when I fanned them....but I have stopped that.

 

The mycelial growth is vigorous and not contaminated. It's been about a week for the first batch and there is lots of knobby growth that looks like the beginning of pins...then they don't pin.

 

I've stopped misting and am focused on FAE ....fanning  5-6x a day.  The gauge is pegged at 99%.

 

After about 36 hrs of that routine I am getting growth that looks like fruiting bodies but no caps. Like puff balls actually.

 

I'm worried about how to resolve this. Just keep fanning and wait?  Pull them out and change something? There's 48 cakes...obviously I don't wanna lose them.

 

 

Any guidance here would be much appreciated.

 

pics to follow... having some sd card issues:

 

 



#2 picapau

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 04:53 PM

here some pics....I can take more if needed:

 

 

20200325_144226.jpg

 

20200325_144113.jpg

 

20200325_144041.jpg

 

20200325_144012.jpg

 

20200325_143845.jpg

 

20200325_143749.jpg

 

 



#3 Boebs

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 07:02 PM

Looks almost like wet bubble..:/
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#4 picapau

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 07:50 PM

Looks almost like wet bubble..:/

Hmmmm

 

had to go search that one.

 

That would be sad.

 

Maybe someone has seen something similar.

 

these are b+, by the way.

 

thanks for that comment~



#5 CatsAndBats

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 07:57 PM

Looks almost like wet bubble..:/

Agreed.

 

It's not definitive from the pictures, but I'd quarantine that chamber and clean, a lot. The spores from wet bubble are a PITA. I'd say harder to deal with than  green mold spores.

 

In this case I didn't actually have wet bubble, but I have experienced it before:

 

https://mycotopia.ne...ii-on-pf-cakes/

 

This covers both wet and dry bubble:

 

https://extension.ps...lium-dry-bubble


Edited by CatsAndBats, 25 March 2020 - 07:57 PM.

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#6 picapau

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 08:13 PM

Thanks Cats,

 

I found that first link in  a search....the second one is super informative.

 

not looking good


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#7 picapau

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Posted 26 March 2020 - 02:06 PM

Just to update and hopefully illuminate some for a newb.

 

It appears to be dry bubble and it has hit 3 of 4 chambers holding 36 cakes.

 

Reading up on it all leads me to believing my mistake came in the way I prepared my chambers  and room prior to birthing.

 

I had been under the mistaken belief that once the cakes were colonized nothing could hurt them as long as thre was adequate FAE.

 

I had never heard of verticillium and was totally lax, by fungi standards, in sanitizing the space and the chambers from previous fruitings and such.  

 

Not a total loss as one chamber is pinning now and I have a couple other projects now quarantined.

 

Grateful for the help, Boebs and Cats!


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#8 TVCasualty

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Posted 27 March 2020 - 03:41 PM

20 hours is a bit long for a dunk IMO. I try not to go longer than 12 hrs. though I've dunked them as long as 18 and they still fruited just fine. There's no telling if that was a factor in this case but it's a possibility.

 

Also, dunking them all in the same container would spread anything contaminating one of them to the rest of them. FWIW, you can dunk them directly in their own jars after getting rid of the dry verm layer (hold them down by putting the lid back on). And while colonized cakes are much more resistant than cakes with uncolonized patches, I've noticed that they seem to develop the highest resistance to contamination if they are allowed to grow for at least a few extra days after being fully colonized before being birthed.


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#9 picapau

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Posted 27 March 2020 - 05:51 PM

Thanks for this 

 

20 hours is a bit long for a dunk IMO. I try not to go longer than 12 hrs. though I've dunked them as long as 18 and they still fruited just fine. There's no telling if that was a factor in this case but it's a possibility.

 

Also, dunking them all in the same container would spread anything contaminating one of them to the rest of them. FWIW, you can dunk them directly in their own jars after getting rid of the dry verm layer (hold them down by putting the lid back on). And while colonized cakes are much more resistant than cakes with uncolonized patches, I've noticed that they seem to develop the highest resistance to contamination if they are allowed to grow for at least a few extra days after being fully colonized before being birthed.

Thanks for those tips. Much appreciated.

 

I read somewhere that the 1st dunk should be longer than 12hrs....now I'm wondering if I mis-remembered that.

 

In any event...I picked off the aborted malformed pins... misted my chambers with a peroxide solution and have continued to fan every couple of hours. I don't have much else to do anyway.

 

I have solid pins forming on roughly 75-80% of those cakes now.

 

I'm a little up in the air about what the actual issue is now. I birthed the cakes as soon as I had full coverage and they were dunked for the 20hrs and put atop the wet perilite.

I'm still open to the idea that their was too much moisture inall and the cakes were still in colonozing mode.

 

None of the funky, capless aborts had caps forming.

 

I'll take more pics as they mature.


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#10 picapau

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Posted 27 March 2020 - 06:49 PM

some current pics for anyone who might be helped by any of this

 

 

 

20200327_172703.jpg

 

 

20200327_170536.jpg

 

 

20200327_172255.jpg

 

 

 

20200327_172436.jpg


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#11 TVCasualty

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Posted 28 March 2020 - 10:21 AM

Looking good!

 

Keep that fresh air flowing and make sure the air doesn't dry out too much (mist as needed), but otherwise don't mess with them. "Loving" them to death is a common cause of failures and problems so don't do anything more than fresh air exchange and misting as necessary.


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#12 picapau

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Posted 28 March 2020 - 10:54 AM

TVCasualty, on 28 Mar 2020 - 08:21 AM, said:
Looking good!

Keep that fresh air flowing and make sure the air doesn't dry out too much (mist as needed), but otherwise don't mess with them. "Loving" them to death is a common cause of failures and problems so don't do anything more than fresh air exchange and misting as necessary.

I completely get you about loving it to death.....thanks again.

One of the first searches I did after Boebs comment was a thread where someone thought something was fubar...but it turned out fine.

In light of that I will keep posting pics of this batch in case some other peeps find themselves in a similar sitaution. It may have been Catsand Bats example above.

As of this morning, they are really starting to take off and I haven't had to add any moisture for 30+hrs.

I'll take some pics tomorrow.

Edited by picapau, 28 March 2020 - 01:09 PM.

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#13 picapau

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Posted 29 March 2020 - 11:58 AM

OK...here are some pics just taken in the two chambers that are ahead

 

Everything looks healthy....just that some are growing out/wide at the base before extending up. I haven't seen that before...but my experice is limited. But a lot of them look 'fat' and twisting. Maybe that's a thing?

 

I'm sure I'll have a question or two as this unfolds...

 

20200329_103053.jpg

 

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20200329_102907.jpg

 

20200329_102914.jpg

 

20200329_102857.jpg

 

 


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#14 picapau

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Posted 01 April 2020 - 10:23 AM

Ok I had to wait for my data to kick in before I could get back online.

 

Here are some pics just before I harvested the first flush.

 

There was definitely something bogging them down, but they fought through it. There was one chamber that had several malformed fruits. One fruit had a another growing right through it's cap. 

I believe it was dry bubble as nothig ever started weeping.

 

Maybe mal-fomed fruits can be attributed to something else?

 

If so share what you know.

 

Also it was a massive flush compared to my previous adventures and the cakes ran out of moisture with dozens of pins still popping.

 

Many of the fruits veils detached while the shroom was still small. I'm think that was the lack of moisture as the cakes were so long in pinning?

 

Again any comments are welcome. And thanks for all the support....I really dig this community~

 

One last bit...I was really concerned I would have to toss this crop...but after looking at some threads and pics here, I decided to just run an experiment.

I'm glad I did...and maybe this will inform someone down the road.

 

here 's the pics:

 

20200331_055544.jpg

 

20200331_055305.jpg

 

20200331_055259.jpg 20200331_054410.jpg



#15 TVCasualty

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Posted 01 April 2020 - 11:19 AM

Not all instances of contamination are devastating to a crop (verticillium is the most common example), but to be on the safe side I'd avoid taking spore prints from any grows that look like they're fighting something off.

 

If it happens on your next grow and you used the same spores that you used for this one then it's probably being introduced with the spores, but it's hard to tell sometimes since most of us aren't growing in anything close to a real "clean room."


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#16 picapau

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Posted 01 April 2020 - 12:04 PM

Not all instances of contamination are devastating to a crop (verticillium is the most common example), but to be on the safe side I'd avoid taking spore prints from any grows that look like they're fighting something off.

 

If it happens on your next grow and you used the same spores that you used for this one then it's probably being introduced with the spores, but it's hard to tell sometimes since most of us aren't growing in anything close to a real "clean room."

I didn't even mention that this was my first grow using my own spores from a print I collected....so, duly noted and thank you again~


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