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Found some Copelandia’s in the wild.


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#21 butterbean

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Posted 21 April 2020 - 04:44 AM

Thanks guys for the input, I am trying to be very careful as I am paranoid/scared as anyone. I've been going back and forth on forums looking up what they could possibly be.

I'm am definitely confused now... I am 99% sure they are panaeolus sp. Just not entirely sure which ones...

 

From my first forage:

https://mycotopia.ne...1586441620.jpeg

https://mycotopia.ne...1586441676.jpeg

 

I'm pretty sure these are panaleous sp. It was my first time so I wasn't aware of all the lookalike panaleous sp. I didn't keep an eye out for blue bruising on each one, so i might have mixed up some of the different panaleous sp. all together when I was picking. 

 

For my second forage, (https://mycotopia.ne...d/#entry1448705) I went back to the same fields and cow pats that I picked from my first forage. It was a week later so some of the mushrooms were drying out that's why the caps look a bit funkier. This time I made SURE to observe carefully if they turned blue...and every single one did turn blue within 2-3 hours. 

 

The shrooms that I picked from my second forage and first forage looked identical and were in the same locations. 


Edited by butterbean, 21 April 2020 - 04:47 AM.


#22 mjshroomer

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Posted 21 April 2020 - 11:10 AM

Yea thats what i was thinking too, i know there is a type that can cause severe gastrointestinal distress if alchohol has been taken with them also.

Pan cayns turn blue as if blue ink was rubbed onto it.
No mistaking the blue on true blue meanies.


Most wild ones i have found, the stems have spiral virtually running lines up them also, the look alikes do not spiral or turn blue.

 

The species that makes one sick is Coprinus atramentarius. an inky cap species which contains toxins similar to antibuse and so if you eat the Coprinus species you will get nauseated and vomit, even as later as one week after eating such shroom/

 

Panaeolus antilarum does not stain blue. Rarely it will ever be found in a turd where Copelanhdia cyanesencens is fruiting.


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#23 mjshroomer

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Posted 21 April 2020 - 11:12 AM

Found some of these recently and was wondering what’s the best way to clean these before usage. I found them in the wild and in poop so I’m afraid they would not be clean enough for direct consumption.

 those are all Copelandia cyanescens. same as Pan cyans.


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#24 mjshroomer

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Posted 21 April 2020 - 11:43 AM

A good page to pinn Roc.

 

WHen collecting Copelandia cyanescens (Syn.=panaeolus cyanescens), you should always placed them in a plastic open container with the caps at one end and the stipes at the other end.

 

Try not to squeeze them when collecing them and carry the container around without shaking or bounding it as you walk.  You do not want any shrooms in your collections to stain blue.that is psilocine escaping from the shrooms into the air.  

 

If you see a bluing one in the container while harvesting, toss it back into the field or place it in a separate container.  Any bluing Copelandia laying on top or touching any other speciomens you have collecteded will automatically cause the other mushrooms it is touching or laying on to also start oxidising to where they also will blue or thur to blue-black.  

 

Here are several containers of how my mushrooms look when I harvest them. IT too me several years to learn how to lift a shroom from the manure without squeezing them so that they would not blue.

 

These are from Asia (Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, Malaysia, Bali, and India) but I also have many from for of the 7 Islands in the Hawaiian archipelego.

 

In the first two photos you can see a bluing shroom or two in their. I tossed them out. 

 

CopewatatNathon4.jpg   

CopewatatNathon5.jpg   

 

Here is from another day.  the above two  images were one collection but an hour later I filled the tray.  Took them to my bungalow on the beach at Lamai, Koh Samui Island and paid them out to dry.

 

Here are some full trays  of perfectly picked Copelandia species.

 

DSCN1798abc.jpg   

DSCN2456.JPG   

 

The next two images are from Suphanburi Buffal House Farm, Thailand about a 2 hour or more drive from Bangkok.

 

suphanburi22.jpg   

suphanburi23.jpg   

 

Cambodia

cambodia-2000-48 -1.jpg   

camcope41.jpg

camcope42.jpg   

 

And here are three different mushrooms from a turd in the left front entrance into the walls of Angkor Wat, Cambodia.

 

There is a single specimen of Copelandia cyanesens and then some Panaeolus papilionaceus (non-active) species, and a Psilocybe coprophila (non-Active species known renamed as Deconica coprophila).    I labled them. The Panaeolus papilionaceus is known also as the  butterfly fungi. It was also previouosly known as Panaeolus sphinctrinus and or Teonanacatle by mistake of Schutles and it was also known as Panaeolus campanulatus.  Not active.  Rare to see the species all in a manure heap of Brahjman dairy cattle in Cambodia.

 

The Thailand Copeldandia above came from Buffalo Manure (pink and gray buffalo's Bubalus bubalis)  

 

Image 1 is Copelandia cyanescens.

Images 2, 4, 5, and 6 are Panaeolus papilionaceus.  They have a reddish stem and a slight black veil remnant also known as a ring.  Ofen collected in Hawaii by shroomers who throw them in with their collections fo Copelandia cyanesens. they are not active but will not make one sick if eaten.  Just not good to throw shit shrooms in with the good ones. 

Image 3 is the non-active species Psilocybe coprophila, now known as Deconica coprophila.

 

cam2000-36Master-1abc.jpg

 

Enjoy the hunt. When there are a lot of smaller copes that usually imples it is the end of the flushes.  Bigger ones show the first to third fruigings in a short period.


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#25 ItBeBasidia

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Posted 21 April 2020 - 02:55 PM

Don't let fear stop you from finding and enjoying wild magic. There's something about finding these in their natural way and experiencing them.

Do take precautions and be diligent of course.

I haven't had the pleasure of eating cyans or any of the strong pan actives, but if it makes you feel any better, I've eaten several localities of Panaeolus foenescii (foulest flavor), Panaeolus sphinctrinus, Panaeolus olivaceous, and many other panaeolus spp. I was positive they were panaeolus though. Panaeolus is, IMO, the best genus to learn identification with, especially panaeolus foenescii.


When found directly growing from dung, the risk of eating a deadly poisonous mushroom is low. It must be growing FROM the dung and not nearby grass or tree roots for the low risk. Also, Panaeolus spp. Have brown and black spore prints as well as mottled gills. The ones you are looking for have a jet black spore print. The closest looking poisonous mushrooms of concern in a similar habitat would be Conocybe spp which do not grow on dung and have a rust colored spore print.

Make some prints! For Id'ing and for a future grow!

#26 butterbean

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Posted 21 April 2020 - 11:34 PM

Wow guys thank you for all the great info!  :thumbs_up2: and especially from OG mjshroomer, so very much appreciated! I will be very careful about the correct way of picking in the future.  

 

I'm a happy bunny right now. It seems that I lucked out and stumbled unwittingly to find THE panaeolus sp. first time around despite my complete lack of knowledge. 

 

Its going to rain over the next couple of days and I'm planning to go back out for some hunting.
Weather was around 22-25°C (71-77°F) after rain and was foggy/misty weather near 90-100% humidity when I first found them. I have heard they can fruit at temps up to 35°C (95°F) after a heavy rain? 


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#27 DarkNchildlike

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Posted 22 April 2020 - 01:32 PM

I would be interested hearing Pan trip reports from wild specimens!
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#28 mjshroomer

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Posted 23 April 2020 - 10:22 AM

Don't let fear stop you from finding and enjoying wild magic. There's something about finding these in their natural way and experiencing them.

Do take precautions and be diligent of course.

I haven't had the pleasure of eating cyans or any of the strong pan actives, but if it makes you feel any better, I've eaten several localities of Panaeolus foenescii (foulest flavor), Panaeolus sphinctrinus, Panaeolus olivaceous, and many other panaeolus spp. I was positive they were panaeolus though. Panaeolus is, IMO, the best genus to learn identification with, especially panaeolus foenescii.


When found directly growing from dung, the risk of eating a deadly poisonous mushroom is low. It must be growing FROM the dung and not nearby grass or tree roots for the low risk. Also, Panaeolus spp. Have brown and black spore prints as well as mottled gills. The ones you are looking for have a jet black spore print. The closest looking poisonous mushrooms of concern in a similar habitat would be Conocybe spp which do not grow on dung and have a rust colored spore print.

Make some prints! For Id'ing and for a future grow!

In regards to y uor post above ItBeBasidia, Panaeolina foenisecii and Panaeolus sphinctrinus are not psychoactive mushrooms. Also, Panaolina foenisecii does not grow ever in manure. In lawns with manured fertilizers in the grass.  They are not active and early 1960s chemcal anaysis produced what are known as false positives.

 

Furthermore, Panaeolina foenisceii has brown spores only.. And Panaeolus have jet black spore deposits . No Panaeolus species have Brown spore prints.   

 

And there are species of Conocybe that grow on cow dung, buffalo dung and even on elephant dung.   And yes the spore color for Conocybe species is an orangey-cinnamon color or rusty orange color. 

Be carfull when posting such mis-information about species because  people get poisoned by friends who claim to know what they are speaking of.  

 

A 16 year-old-girl- died on Christmas day in 1982 after consuming several specimens of Galerina autunalis which containst the same toxins found in the deadly Pholiotina filaris, formerly known as Conocybe filaris.  And they are the same toxins in the deadly Amanita phalloides and Amanita virosa.  Two teenage boys, also age 16 picked the mushrooms on Ebey Island near Seattle and told the girl that they were the same species they had eaten the year before.  They also were afraid to go to the hospital out of fear they would be arrested and charged for consuming magic mushrooms.  But the boys were adament in that they beleived they were the sanme species they had picked the year befoe.  They thought they had found Psilocybe stuntzii which both P. stuntzii and Psilocybe cyanesencens resemble one another but they also resemble other deadly species of Galerina.  The firl died, and the two boys, both now also gone were put in dialysis for the rest of their lives.  

 

In 2002. another two people in Astoria, Oregon thought they had P. azurescens and one man died.  The man who picked the toxic shrooms also claimed they were the same species they had eaten the year beforel

 

A little mistake can poison someone who please make sure you know what you talk about when giving advice to others about Panaeolus or Conocybe species.

 

That is a deadly species and grows in woodchip mulch in garden beds and sometimes in manured sodded lawns.  It has a white ring and an orangey stem as seen in this photo below.It is deadly.     The two boys, bot

 

Pholiotina filaris:

conocybefilaris1abc.jpg   

 

The above image will kill in 3-7 days.

 

mjshroomer/man of knowledge


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#29 mjshroomer

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Posted 23 April 2020 - 10:25 AM

I would be interested hearing Pan trip reports from wild specimens!

 A link to my article, "Mushrooms in Paradise: Hawaiian Style"  from  Shroomtalk Magazine, also a more detailed description is in my book, at Amazon and Barnes and Nobles, Divine Mushrooms and Fungi.

 

https://web.archive....org/hawaii4.htm  

 

mjshroomer / man of knowledge


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#30 ItBeBasidia

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Posted 23 April 2020 - 11:58 AM

MJ,

Let me preface by saying I love all you do, your work, and what you've done.

I'm completely aware that foenescii and sphintrinus are not active. I purposefully ate them without the intention of voyaging. I was simply sharing that I've eaten other panaeolus spp that weren't active. I'm also very familiar with panaeolina foenescii. I know it has brown spores. It was formally panaeolus foenescii and many field guides have it named that. I also mentioned the one he was looking for in particular has jet black spores .

As for conocybe, I said that was a genus of concern. Especially the ones not on dung. I know I generalized the species but that was so further research from the poster may be done.

I don't believe I've spread misinformation. Maybe my grammar is off or I've summarized too much, but I know my fungi. I'm a member of a few different myco clubs and help ID on annual forays.

Looking forward to reading your new piece!

Cheers
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#31 ItBeBasidia

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Posted 23 April 2020 - 01:00 PM

Let me just further state for OP and for everyone else:

Know your mushrooms. Take prints, get a field guide, join a club, and post ID requests. Get to thoroughly know the poisonous ones first. Don't eat what you don't know. Only you can make the determination of what you eat and if you are comfortable with it.

Don't let fear stop you from getting to know them. Going out and making positive IDs is how you bolster confidence.

Some good resources are the books: "Mushrooms Demystified" and "The Audubon Society field guide to North American mushrooms".

Sites: mushroomexpert.com, mushroomobserver.org

Apps: inaturalis

These are just a few tools. There are many more books and sites. Joining your local myco club is another awesome and fun way to learn your fungi.



Have fun, be safe, and enjoy your forays.

Edited by ItBeBasidia, 23 April 2020 - 01:07 PM.


#32 ChocolateStarfish

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Posted 23 April 2020 - 01:19 PM

Don't mean to be "that guy" to disagree with people... but do not toss the blueing ones back. the bluing of a mushroom caused by abuse does not cause any noticeable difference in potency. if you toss those mushrooms back into the field, you will be doing just that, and it will have been just as likely to be potent as the rest. I would like to see your references where you saw that the bluing is the psilocin escaping into the air, it is oxidizing yes, but there is no evidence that even suggests that this oxidized version of the psilocin is not in itself psychoactive... Just don't believe everything you see someone say without actually doing real research into it.


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#33 butterbean

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Posted 24 April 2020 - 03:17 AM

Could someone tell me what are the temperature ranges one can expect to find Panaeolus Sp. in the outdoors?  

 

Also I have another couple of ideas sprang to mind, I want to see what you guys think:

 

I have found these Pan Cyans in fields and patches on an island that the cows/ water buffalo are confined too. There is this one field that has a large patch that I have found the majority of the fruits. In the other areas the pan Cyans are found in isolated cow pats or small 12x12 inch patches.

 

The cows/buffalo roam freely across this island so you can see trails of cow pats all over the place and in the the fields they feed on or sleep in. So far I have managed to find the Pan Cyans in 5% of the areas I've looked despite the mass of cow shit area available.  

 

So here are some ideas: 

 

1) I have been taking a couple of the Pan Cyan caps and placing them in a 2L bottle of water shaking it and watering all around the fields onto cow pats to spread their spores. I'm hoping this will generate more Pan Cyans over a greater area 6-12 months down the line. 

 

2) Take some of the cow pats with verified pan cyan mycelium and spread them elsewhere onto cowpats around the island. 

 

3) Take some of the cow pats with verified pan cyan mycelium and dump other substrates that pan cyans love e.g. like straw, grass, hay, COIR more cow poop to generate more pan cyan myc (a bit like bulk spawn but in the wild using natural cow pat spawn)  

 

4) Transfer cow pats with pan cyan myc over to another island where cows are not present to start colonization elsewhere.

 

Would this even be viable?

 

Thanks 



#34 Boebs

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Posted 24 April 2020 - 08:24 AM

All of those are plausible.
In my research, it seems the cows eat the spores and they survive the digestive system.
Ive spored carrots and fed them to horse and had the feilds blow up with cubes a few months later.

Keep in mind it needs to be older patties for the mycelium to grow in. 2-4 months old.

Spreading patties would benefit the spread of spores.

Keep an eye out for salt blocks, discard them if possible. They kill the spores inside the livestock digestive system, or so ive been told.

Also what ive done befor is collect the turds with verified mycelium i want,and bring them home or elswhere to give them a better growing condition, collecting clean spores.

You can add these spores to a spray bottle and mist the feilds, or if you know where the livestock have a feeder/water area spray these too.

I like to tend to these mushrooms wellbeing in the wild.

A major thing to remember, do not pick the feilds clean.
Leave some nice big some to drop their spores naturally to help spore the grasses that grow around the patties.
The livestock will return to eat this taller grass that is thriving from the nutrients of said pattie now covered in said spores.



As for temps, keep a weather log.
I used to do this when i gathered wilds alot.

Every time you see it raining mark down how heavy the rains were, the day, temp, humidity
And if you go to the fields mark down how was successful or not, and other side notes like the feild was extremely wet/ dry. How many days after the rains you went ect..

Hope this helps!!


It will help you learn your environment as to when these are at their prime.
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#35 butterbean

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Posted 24 April 2020 - 10:49 AM

Wow so awesome thanks for the great info!!!

 

A few questions:

 

What do you mean by spored carrots? just covering the carrots with spores? 

 

Also do you have anymore specifics/details on how you grew from collected turds with the myc? Did you grow indoors or just add it to an outdoor sub? 



#36 Boebs

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Posted 24 April 2020 - 12:36 PM

I set mushroom caps onto of carrots so they would spore print ontop of the them.

I collected as many patties as i could carry in a backpack linned with a trashbag.


Outside,
I then lightly crumbled them and put some black cow compost manure over top.

Then i put a large tote over top of them to increase humidity, and added darkness.

Worked amazingly. Wish i had the photos still.

I do this to collect as clean as possible spore prints of wild species.
You know, for scientific research;)
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#37 butterbean

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Posted 25 April 2020 - 03:36 AM

Thank you again. 

a few more q's. 

 

How do you determine which cow pats are suitably composted enough to use for bulk sub? Like the 2-4 month age range you mentioned. I can definitely tell when they are fresh and wet but on the other hand I have seen some that are super dry and old.

Will the old ones have enough nutrients to act as a bulk sub. I plan to mix with grass, COIR and some verm. 



#38 Boebs

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Posted 25 April 2020 - 07:59 AM

If you can snap it it is ready lol.
It has to have dried out completely.

#39 butterbean

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Posted 26 April 2020 - 12:12 AM

Is there any issue with pricing cow poo with other mycelium in it? I’m seeing a lot of poo that is a bit white. Not sure if it’s fire fang... Will pasteurisation take care of the unwanted/unknown mycelium in the cow poo

#40 Boebs

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Posted 26 April 2020 - 08:37 AM

Yea if you pasteurize it will take care of unwanted myc.

I never worried about it tho.

If you were to pasteurize then you need to reuintuduce mycelium.
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