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Found some Copelandia’s in the wild.

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#41 mjshroomer



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Posted 26 April 2020 - 11:03 AM

Ther are many mehtods for the dispersal of spores.  Animals, especiaaly cattle digest fresh shrooms when grazing.    They also transort them across a field in their hooves.  As somene who studied animal husbandry I know a lot about the dispersal of spores.


First off, as soon as  a cap opens, billions of spores are already released into a given area;.  While Copelandia can be visible with the naked eye in a field, morte freely fruit in many shaded areas or in taller grasses that protect them from the heat of the sun.  In shaded areas in rice paddies and fields they are most noticilcable when looking down into the grassy areas.  In open areas they can come up and dry  from the sun. 


At times, even in fresh manure a crop of Copelandia will appear the day after manure falls the night before.  Those ones are from spores that were at a location from a few months earlier and the mycelia was growing under ground.  I photographed a patch of Copelandia tropicalis that came up on Kualoa Ranch along side a cattle trail, a trail that was also used as a go-cart pathway for japanese Tourists (the number one group of Tourist to Kualoa Ranch) on Oahu, Hawaii directly hidden by trees from Kamehameha Highway near Coral Kingdom and Chinaman's Hat on Oahu.


I collected specimens 3-4 times a week at Kualoa Ranch when working with the University of Hawaii at Manoa on Oahu, also at the U of H Livestock and Experimental Farm at Sunset Beach (where the Billabong sufg events are),  I also collected for six months on Maui, one month on Kuaui, and four and ahalf months at the Paradise subdivision of Pahoa near Hilo and on Mauna Kea Volcano.


I am posting below one of only four collections of what were positively identified as Panaeoulus tropicalis.  That is one variety of Copelandia that Steven Pollock collected in 1974 on Oahu's North Shore.


That species was falsely said to grow in Florida by the Nortorious Mr. G (also known as Master Grower). He claimed that the spores of the species Panaeous troicalis came to Florida on Pineapple slips that flowted to the shores of Florida from cattle on Spanish Galleon Treasure ships.  


I had debunked his story.  He claimed that Pineapple slips on treasure ships that sank in the Triangle had spores that attached theirselfs to such slips and when the overladened treasure galleons sank, the slips floared to the shores of Florida and that is how Panaeolus tripicalis came to Florida.  He noted that St. Martin's Florida was the Pineapple capital of America.


That last part is true. St. Martins was the distribution center that sent Pineapples by train from Florida North to Washington D.C. and to New York where they then were distributed to Michigan, Chicagol, St. Louis, etc.


I had contacted Dole,which at the time in 1886 was the primary distributer of Pineapples in the world.


What I learned was that in 1886, the only pineapples Dole shipped to America and other regions of the world were Canned sliced pineapples.  At that period of their company,. Pineapples were only canned.


So no fresh pineapples traveled in Spanish Galleons to America.


Furthermore, Unbeknowns to Mr. G. who had ads in High times and several online spore vending businesses, was completely unaware that Pineapples are not from Hawaii. They were an introduced species.  Pineapples are from Paragyay and Brazil.  


Mr. G. was also not aware that no Treasure ships carried cattle.  They did carry treasures that they took from the Native American, Mesoamerican and South American people.  And it is my belief that the reason so many treasure ships sank was because of their greed for treasure..  WE need to remember that the Spanish and the Portuguese were master seamen.  Even Columbus, He knew the secret of the wind.  That is he was aware that in the morning the tide goes one way and the wind goes the other. That was the secret of sailing across the continent.


And another factor that Mr. G. Failed to know is that Pineapple was the number one cure for scurvey.  Something that caused a lot of misery and death to seaman on a long voyage.


In a single field where copes grow or cubes grow or both grow, one can find a lot.  Over a 21 day period, I photographed a fruiting of what later we looked at under the scope were Panaeolus tropicalis.


A single cowpie usually has one species at a time,yet on ocassion one corner may have a few specimens of a 2nd species.  


I had been down this trail on Kualoa ranch for four days in a row.  and I had been picking from the numerous paddocks on the left of the trail as I headed north towards the ranch.  On the right of the trail there had been nothing at all.


The next day I came by and lo and behold, there was a crop of copes, in fresh steaming black manure heap.  I realized that since it was not there the day before when I had been on the property that the spores were under the ground, apparently from specimens that had been there 4-6 or more weeks before.  


The shrooms came straight up in the center of the cowpie.  

Now I photograhped what was there and then placed the specimens in a separate container than the one I was using for general collection of Copes from the paddocks on my left.


That night I laid them out to dry for herbarium deposit a the Bishop Herbarium in Honolulu.l  


During the next 21 days I came back to this cowpie every three days.


The first two days of collectin on day 1 and day 3, the shrooms returned and were of a large size,.  During the next 6 tips of every three days since day one, each day, the fruitings were smaller and smaller.


Until on Day 21 since I first found that one fresh cowpie, the 21st day had the least amount of copes.  


So here are those pictures I took every three days. with a couple of close up images as well.  Then I will continue with more on spore dispersal and show some other interesting crops and how they grew as seen in the images.


Day 1a. Kualoa Ranch, Oahu, Hawaii, Copelandia tropicalis.  .  



Day 1b.  Kualoa Ranch, Oahu, Hawaii.  Copelandia tropicalis.  A close up of above image.  



Day 1c.  Kualoa Ranch, Oahu, Hawaii.  Copelandia tropicalis.  A close up of above mushrooms on the right side of image 1a and 1b. 



Day 4..  Kualoa Ranch, Oahu, Hawaii.  Copelandia tropicalis.  



Day 7a.  Kualoa Ranch, Oahu, Hawaii.  Copelandia tropicalis. 



Day 7b.  Kualoa Ranch, Oahu, Hawaii.  Copelandia tropicalis.  Aclose up of Image 7 from above looking directly down at the specimens.



Day 11. Kualoa Ranch, Oahu, Hawaii.  Copelandia tropicalis.  



Day 14.  Kualoa Ranch, Oahu, Hawaii.  Copelandia tropicalis



Day 17.  Kualoa Ranch, Oahu, Hawaii.  Copelandia tropicalis



Day 21.  Kualoa Ranch, Oahu, Hawaii.  Copelandia tropicalis.  



Had a hard time posting this in the correct order. I may have been off on a day in the countdown over the every three days But it is about right. Just a day off on a few when reposting this after 0ver 30 years ago.


Now another method of spore disposal is the fallen spores into the ground. The above grow was Copelandia tropicalis. 

Now here is a cow pie where the spores were under the ground and above ground was decomposed manrure heap of 5-6 weeks old. This one had the mycelium underground and so the Copelandia's in this image grew from the heat of the manure under the turd and they came up from under the cowpie and fruiting along the outer side of the cow pie so they are like surrounding the edge of the cow pie. This one image here is from Maui in the fall (Aug-Nom) of 1986.  


Copelandia cyanescens from spores that were under a cow pie where it landed and from 4-6 weeks later fruited. The photo was taken at the Makawao Rodeo Grounds across the highway from Seabury Hall, a private kids school.  After school several kids would hop the fence, smoke doobies and collect shrooms for parties on a Friday night.  I had spoke with many before about their use of shrooms and if their parents knew.


Image 1: Copelandia cyanescens fruiting from under the cowpie.  



On occasion, I have turned over cowpies in Hawaii, Thailand and Cambodia and India.  In fields where none had fruited at the time I was there.  This shows that the spore were in the ground from shrooms that were there a month or two earlier.  And here is one from Maui that was at Ho'o'kipa park on the Hana Highway where they windsuft and fly giant Kites. I wrote about my experience consumibng Copes at this park in my magazine article "Mushrooms in Paradise: Hawaiian Style."


I was checking how the lenght of time of the decompising manure. I did this on several cow pies. Here is one such image and lhere were pinners fruiting on the underside of the cowpie attached to the grassy mycelia area beneath where it was when I turned it over.


Image 2

theshit10neocopec29X.jpg ..


Now a few other comments.  In daily picking periods in Thailand while working in association with Chulalongkorn Unviersity, I noticed in certain ricepaddie areas where I picked every year and at least a month of foraging daily for hours after hours ai learned a lot about their growth patterns.  I learned that on occasion, one species at a time will dominate a field. or a given area. If Panaeolus antillarums are up in quantity, there will be little cubes.  On the other hand, a given area can have cubes in one area and copes in another. Or if the Copes dominate and are common in a given area, then cubes will probably be in a more shaded area near bushy areas, where the grass is talled such as near coconut palms.


In this next image of copes. I have a Burger King bag with over 175 copes in the bag,. I had already picked them when I thought that I should have taken a picture first.  SI there are sitill over at least 75 tp 100 more littler copes to pick. There were even more bigger ones around the coconut tree.  Count how many.



While in this image of the bag, I shold note that I usually use a plastic container and lay all shrooms with the caps at one end and the base of the stems at the other. I carry that container as if it were a cup of hot coffee..  That is so I do not bounce around the copes and cause damage or oxidation. As I said above. I toss those damage copes from the containers because they infect any other cope they are laying upon.  when one is picing many as I do. tossing a bluing damage cope back into the earth is not a waste.   The copes fruit profusely and abundantly, especiall at the buffalo arenas.  More so than the cubes in Southeast Asia which is where the genus is believed to have originated in.


If one does want to keep the bluing copes then do not leave them in a container with good copes. Never put them in any enclose covered container and put them in a separate container. yes, they still have active compounds,  We have analysed Copes from three locations of which two came from hawaii and From Thailand. The Hawaiian copes were found to contain high levels of psilocybine and low levels of psilocine.  Your bofy converts psilocybine in to psilocine.  The Copes from Australia and Thailand were low in psilocybine and high in psilocine.


Also, Some fields will only have either copse or cubes and never one or the other together.  Samoa, like Hawaii does not have any cupes. Only Copes. Fiji on the other hand has both Copes and Cubes.


As for Hawaii, Both me and Terence McKenna had tried on numerous occasions to see Hawaii with Cubensis. They do not take fruit,.  Both of use tried including giving spore injected into apples to horses, and to cattle. Nothing ever grew for many years over a long period of time, others also tried to get them to fruit in Hawaii.  They do not grow there period.


No one knows why a series of paddocks on property where the cattle are often moved from paddock to paddock for grazing why some paddocks have the cubes or the copes come up and then there are ones in those paddock places where no shrooms ever come up at all.  


Many people pic baggies of copes that by the time they get home, their copes look like shit. I would never give anyone nasty looking bacteria soaked mushrooms. That is what rotted blue copes, no matter that they still  have active tryptamines in them to anyone.   


And people make tea. That is a Western Civilization method of ingestion. Over half the high is lost in liquid form.   And as I noted , psilocybine is converted into psilocine after ingestrion so when copes high in psilocine are cooked in a tea ot soup, a lot of the activity is lost.  


They suffocate in  plastic baggies and form bacteria.  Below is a photograph of a collection of Cubes and copes. However, the person in Austrlalia who collected these had to toss them into the garbage because he had toxic mushromos in the backs and damaged 99% of all of them.  Cube gill fragments are all over the paper from being tossed into giant garbage bags. There were Panaeolus antillarum and Panaeolus sphinctrinus in the bags and also some Chlorophyllum Molydites (green Gills) which will make one very sick and vomit, mausea and diarrhea soon follow after ingestion.


All shroooms that are different from one another should go into separe containers when harvesting them.  A toxic mushroom in a collection of good shrooms can break apart in a bag og mixed mushrooms and then a piece can lodge inside the gills of an active species and someone eating such shrooms from people who grab every shroom they see can die.  


Save the image to your desktop and it is a large image so you can see the different mushrooms this person harvested and the condition they are in. 

This was a careless wasted of good cubes and copes.


And as I noted above in another post here, you can see the good white stemmed collections I have with no damage to anyone in there and mushrooms that I would gladly share with others.  In Hawaii I have examined bags of shroom sby other shroomers in a a field when I was there and I found not only Copes but Conocybe species, Panaeolus antillarum and Panaeolus sphinctrinus in bags from teens and even adults.  On several occasions, those people tried to tell me if you eat enough of the Panaeolus they put into their cope bagts that you would get a good high. I have dozens of hopsital case histories in my files of kids who thought they knew what they were doing.  


Look at this carefully.  People who love shrooms do not want mushrooms that look like this. There is no need to pick rotted or damaged cubes or other shrooms when collecting. that is a sign of greed and carelessness by many who go out and shroom and then as they say, Tripp balls.    In Hawaii, I often see shroomers also grab a handful at parties and down them with shit sitll ont he shrooms. Of course I have never met anyone who claimed they got sick from eating a handful of copes from a bag of freshly picked copes, but many kids do eat them like that. Tearing off the stems causes oxidation. In the PNW, because Psilocybe cyanescnes and Azures and otehr species grow in woodchips by the hundreds and thousands, many cut the stems at the base so they do not damage the mycelium in the woodchips and the stems get a little blue.  No problem but when picking the copes you do not want them oxidising. It took me over two years of weekly collecting them to learn how to lift them from the earth or manure without causing damage to the flesh of the stems.  


So this image from a friend in Australia shows:


"How one should not harvest their musrhooms into platic garbage bags or into plastic baggies."    

theshit10neocopec29X.jpg .


and one more image of a clean harvest of healthy Copes.  Form my friends farm in Ban Thurian, Koh Samui.  These are fresh Copelandia and they are not the pure white which is a color when shrooms are in certain areas of sunlight. 



In age they also become cracked and pitted and wrinkle in their caps as seen here in Ban Phang Ka, Koh Samui with a baby water buffalo (Bubalus bubalis) Kwai in Thailand.  See the color, also thers were all short stemmed and not long stemmed and the their are many variations in the color of the Caps of Copelandia cyanescens, some times called 'gold caps' which others in Florida refer to some cubess as 'gold caps.  



As for temperatures, I find cops in Asia and Southeast asia in 100 to 115 degree weather, and in Hawaii in 70 tp 90 degree weather.  


Here are some spore deposits sitting on blades of grass where I removed the grass from off of a cap where spores dispursed into the aire and then the extreme heat caused them to fall back onto the cap of the mushroom where blades of grass were.  They can either end up back on the ground to reproduce to end up in a cow's stomach from grazing at the moment the spores are there.  From Surathani, Thailand brought to Bangkok on Tourist minivan in cardboard box.



The box at Chulalongkorn Lab at Dept of Microbiology in Bangkok on the Lanai for photographing. Some were damaged from being bounce around in the minivan between Surathani and Bangkok, a 700 km all night ride.. A professors father sent them over night.  This is an extreley large image.  Sorry forgot but to change it would put all the images out of order.

DSCN4841.JPG .  


Here yu can see in this close up the spores on a the grass in the image.  



So there you all just recieved a free workshop that normally I would of received a $35 dollar honorary of a one hour lecture on this subject.


mjshroomer / man of knowledge

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#42 mjshroomer



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Posted 26 April 2020 - 11:08 AM

WEll thwe bottom two images are out of order and that is a problem here with these lengthy posts I make.  I had to remove some images from the text and redo them later and they did not post where theya re suppoost to be so now the info makes no sense.  


The bag of copes with Burger King and the Large giant bags of collected copes and who knows what are at the bottom of the page,. and the overturnd cowpie double post is where the Giant bags should of been.


Sorry abour that  but I now have other things to do.


have a shroomy day. My building now has a reported virus case and they will not say who or what floor the person is on.

So now I am worried. One thitd of more of this building are elderly and are not wearin gmasks of gloves.

mjshroomer / man of knowledge.

#43 Alan Rockefeller

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 02:40 AM



Try not to squeeze them when collecing them and carry the container around without shaking or bounding it as you walk.  You do not want any shrooms in your collections to stain blue.that is psilocine escaping from the shrooms into the air.  




Psilocin is the correct spelling, and it doesn't escape into the air.   Instead the psilocin molecules polymerize, causing the blue color.


For more information and the chemical structure, see https://www.chemistr...4010870.article.

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#44 Alan Rockefeller

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 02:41 AM

Copelandia is a dead genus because the type species of Copelandia is Panaeolus papilionaceus, which is the same type species that the genus Panaeolus has.    None of the professional mycologists have noticed yet, but they will one year.


All of the mushrooms collected by OP are Panaeolus papilionaceus.  

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#45 butterbean



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Posted 27 April 2020 - 08:27 AM

Thanks for all the great info John, really insightful!!! 

Hi Alan,

How does one tell the difference between Panaeolus papilionaceus and Panaeolus cyanscens. My understanding is that Panaeolus papilionaceus does not turn blue when bruised? All my mushrooms are bluing...Also Panaeolus papilionaceus seems to have toothlike partial veil fragments which the mushrooms I collected do not have. Panaeolus papilionaceus caps also look a bit more dark grey, my caps do are cream colored with a very light orange/brown on the apex of the cap.


I have some new pictures of the ones I collected a couple days ago, the very last pic is of new mushroom I haven't seen before, its grey and the cap is more bell shaped, I think this maybe Panaeolus papilionaceus 


The rest of the pics are what i think to be pan cyan's. I found some of the biggest one yet 

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Edited by butterbean, 27 April 2020 - 08:40 AM.

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#46 mjshroomer



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Posted 27 April 2020 - 01:23 PM




Try not to squeeze them when collecing them and carry the container around without shaking or bounding it as you walk.  You do not want any shrooms in your collections to stain blue.that is psilocine escaping from the shrooms into the air.  




Psilocin is the correct spelling, and it doesn't escape into the air.   Instead the psilocin molecules polymerize, causing the blue color.


For more information and the chemical structure, see https://www.chemistr...4010870.article.


Alan, you are correct aboutt he psiloci9ne oxidising., however, psilocin and psilocybin as well as psilocine and psilocybine are both correct spelings according to Ethnopharmacologist Jonathan Ott.  I attach a private pers. communication from Ott to me from many years ago.  DIck Schultes also said that b oth spellings are correct., Here us a letter frionApril 6, 1999 from Jonathan Ott about the spelling of psilocine and psilocybine.

ott_psilocin-psilocine-4-06-1999-abc-1.jpg .  


I am also attaching two other letters from Ott regarding th euse of other words in describing the fungi or use of fungi. thisone from 22 April 1992.



and this one also on the incorrect use of recrrational vs Ludible. from 5 January 1993  



I have more papers on this incluing his paper with Wasson and others on Entheogens and revised paper if you like, and I also have A paper on the Abuse of drug terminology if you would like I can send those to you via email.  


I have used the boluing excaping as a metaphore for the oxidation comment..


Also in your other post, you mention that OP's mushrooms were Panaeolus antillary. Who is OP becauese I did not notice anyone in this thread by the user name?



Alan, Jonathan is fluent in several languages including Latin spellings.  He speaks French, German, Spanish, and English.  And possible some Portuguese although I have never asked him about that matter.


As I noted, both Schultes and Albert Hofmann have used the spelling psilocine.  And also Hofmann and Shuoltes also referred tot he mushrooms as psilocybian in some of their published works.

#47 butterbean



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Posted 28 April 2020 - 02:18 AM

Hi John, OP is short for "original poster"

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#48 Alan Rockefeller

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Posted 28 April 2020 - 04:27 AM


How does one tell the difference between Panaeolus papilionaceus and Panaeolus cyanscens. 



Panaeolus papilionaceus has more of a bell shaped cap that never expands as much as P. cyanescens does.   The most striking feature of P. papilionaceus is the reddish stem and lack of blue bruising.   It often has veil remnants around the cap margin but not always.   There are actually seven species going under the name Panaeolus papilionaceus, so some morphological variation should be expected.

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#49 mjshroomer



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Posted 28 April 2020 - 05:47 PM

Some images of Panaeolus papiolionaceus.  

Sp,e images frrom the former Trails End Ricing Staples in Tumwater, Washington across from the Tumwater airfield.


In composting hay and stable shavings. with horse manure.  Me and gatrtz also picked P. stuntizii here in 1990.













Copy of DSCN2028abc.jpg   


The caps can also vary in shape and size. Some do get conic and also bell hapes with ridges at the edge of the caps from where the veil separates when it breaks free of the sap and remnantrs remain on the edges.  


mjshroomer/  Not active.  




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#50 butterbean



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Posted 28 April 2020 - 10:16 PM

Hi John,


Some of those pictures in your last post definitely look very similar to the mushrooms I've picked.
Cap color wise Panaeolus papiolionaceus and Panaeolus cyanscens seem to look very similar... 

The main differences I can tell from my eyes are the ridges on the cap, and the bluing of the stems, the obvious identifying factor.

In my original post (first forage) I could have mixed up the the two as I was not aware of the differences and did not keep an eye out for the slight bluing in every mushroom I picked. Also it was quite wet that day so some of the stems were a bit wet and covered in dirt/soil. 

My second forage I made sure to check for bluing which they did. However on some pictures the stems are definitely more reddish that white/pale grey. These mushrooms were definitely older and drier than the first batch so the caps are deforming already making identifcation harder especially in hindsight. But all these mushrooms turned blue/black 

My third forage as of a couple days ago I am 99% sure are Panaeolus cyanscens.

On all my forages I didn't notice any mushrooms with the quite distinct ridges on the edge of the cap (i.e. Panaeolus papiolionaceus) But as Alan said they often has veil remnants around the cap margin but not always...


On a side note, I am now realizing the pictures that I uploaded are actually not very clear and not great for identifying the mushrooms I posted on this thread. The quality looks fine on my phone screen but when I view them once they have been uploaded here there is definite quality loss making identification harder. I'm going to endeavour to take better pictures next time...
Also for whatever reason when I upload my pics here the file sizes get compressed. My downloaded images are 3-4MB each but when uploaded to this forum they go down to 3-400kb. Anyone know why this is happening? 

#51 mjshroomer



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Posted 06 May 2020 - 12:54 PM

H8i, bad vision this morning so I have not read the white on black text. will check it at a later time. in the meantime here is a letter to me from my Suisse Colleague, Dr. Tjakko Stikjve, Former head of Nestles in Vevey, Switzerand.  He did lots of chemistry for me over the years. Once paid me $3.00 dollars a baggie for manure samples from Thailand anilmals I made a lot off that one.  


This is about some cope history of their chemical activity.




photo of some Hawii copes.  These are all from August-October of 1986 on Maui.  At Ho'o'kipa, Seabury Hall in Makawao on Maui and Hana on Maui at Lyons Hill where the big cross is. These were all identidified as Copelandia cyanescens(Panaeolus)/ Althought I agree with Rolf Singer's belief they are searate from Panaeolus regardlless of Ewald Gerhardts German Language monograph on the Genus Panaeolus.
















mjshroomer / man of knowledge

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#52 butterbean



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Posted 05 October 2022 - 09:10 AM

Hi guys,

I'm re-opening this thread just to seek some additional info. I am 99% sure that the mushrooms I have collected in the pic in this thread and the ones I am attaching now are pan cyans. I have been collecting them for 2-3 years now and they grow in cow dung and bruise blue.
I have tripped on these shrooms several times now, taking up to 1g and there are definitely psychedelic effects but I would categorize them as a level 2, at most level 3 experience.  ​From info on the forum pan cyans should be much stronger than cubensis, 3x stronger ??? and 1.2-1.5g can be equivalent to heroic dose. So I am wondering why its seems that although the shrooms I have collected are definitely stronger but I do not feel that 1.2-1.5g would cause a level 5 experience. 
I have always ingested the mushrooms dry instead of fresh and maybe this could be the reason since fresh pan cyans mainly contain psilocin instead of psilocybin and perhaps when dried they lose some of there potency?

Edited by butterbean, 05 October 2022 - 09:12 AM.

#53 butterbean



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Posted 05 October 2022 - 09:14 AM

Here are some of the pics of the pan cyans I have been collecting mentioned in the above post 

#54 butterbean



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Posted 05 October 2022 - 09:30 AM

Here are some of the pics of the pan cyans I have been collecting mentioned in the above post 

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#55 YoshiTrainer


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Posted 05 October 2022 - 02:45 PM

I have never seen a wild pan in its natural environment so, I'm not the one to be IDing it for you. That being said, it looks a lot like pan cyan and the habitat and other descriptions help your story. Depending on what state you live in, I believe pan strength can vary genetically. If I remember right, Asura once said something like, you can't go wrong w/a FL pan. On the flip side, I think Jake made a cross with Peace River from FL and one from Jalisco Mexico to make the Jalisco stronger??? Plus site, setting, last time you ate, meds, etc.

Nice find no matter what!
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#56 Boebs



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Posted 07 October 2022 - 11:29 PM

Yea those are pan cyans, and yes once dry they loose some potentceny.
Beautiful finds!!

I eat around 8 caps fresh for an amazing time.
These i find are wayyy stronger fresh btw.
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