52 replies to this topic

[Baphom3t]

So we're in some crazy times. About a month ago I was asked by a friend to help learn to grow.
After doing extensive research, I felt I could trust this person.... so here we are today.
I grow a different way than he's wanting to learn mainly due to the times we are in and lack of certain supplies.
He chose to buy grow bags which have proven to be good bags and well they are looking good.
I have a indoor GH but no humidification, I mentioned tubs but he's looking for more a automatic setup so he opted to fruit in the bags. I know I can get more if I do this and this which I'm open to, but for now I'm trying to show him the simplest way with the least work since that's what he's looking for, Tubs are not a option and we both aren't working to get the RH needed for my GH, so I must refresh my burnt mind.
I know fruits grow in bags but my brain is jackin' off on whether or not I can I can do a "in bag" dunk?
Thoughts?


Now, the crazy thing is I was about to throw the LK out but then it went KABOOM and now it's just growing at a insane rate.
The GT and Maza are consolidating hence why they don't look so white.
I'm stepping out of my norm to help someone that wants to learn and in the process learn something new myself.

 

Edited by Baphom3t, 09 April 2020 - 12:24 PM.

[FunG]

Looking good so far, you need to add a bulk substrate to the gain and mixed in the bag then fruit invitro (,inside the bag with very little f.a.e) depending on the p.cubensis you're using then some will do better then others.

Gt and lk are both good invitro fruiters.
I havnt worked havnt worked with Maz or heard much about it so I wouldn't know. Some p.cubensis require a ton of f.a.e

[Baphom3t]

Thanks FunG, but I'm not doing invitro, since technically this is not my grow per se.
I'm teaching someone, I use a GH and he wants to learn to do it the way I do it, but this pandemic has the stuff I need pretty much impossible to find for me to show him the way I do it, so we improvise.

He's not interested in tubs at this time for what reason I don't know, He is wanting the easiest and most automatic way to do it.
So, I mentioned since we can't get all the sanitizing stuff we need maybe I can show him how to grow in the bag.
That was his choice, so here we are.
I know I don't have to case for cubes to fruit and know I get more if I do case.
But this is not the situation I'm in.

I have had bags actually start fruiting before I went to transfer and case in the past but I've never done, that I can remember, a full grow in a bag.

So, it got me thinking this time around can you dunk in the bag after a flush? .....i.e fill the bag up with water to a point for a decent dunk, drain, clip tops of bags and fruit...... I'm starting to think it is very possible as long as I don't get the filter patch wet.
I'm also thinking RH would be self-sustained from the heat and the condensation from the myc and fruits would negate misting. As far as FAE I'm thinking the filter patch along with what air makes it past the clipped tops would be my FAE.

Thoughts y'all?

GT and MAZ are in consolidation after I crumbled them a couple 3 days back.

[FunG]

What you or your friend are doing is invitro fruiting :)

Fruiting from inside the bag with low f.a.e, just using the filter patch.

The bag guy as I called him use to add in colonized horse manure into the bags after full colonization and then let them fruit from inside the bag, he called it "invitro fruiting" with the explanation about regular fruiting conditions where the cultivator either setups a cool mist on a timer or fans manually....

Basically anything that doesnt require maintenance of the fruiting environment and is low in f.a.e is considered invitro.

Or was I misguided by a deranged cultivator on the internet?

Also from my understanding is you get much larger flushes when adding in a bulk substrate into the bags since grain does not hold moisture very well and when invitro fruiting the mycelium relies heavily on its food source to provide enough humidity for maturing mushrooms so colonized grain drys out quickly...

I'm sure I'm correct about the info, I use to invitro fruit in giant ziplock bags....I wouldn't know about dunking filter patch bags because of the filter like you said but as far as what you or your friend have planned, yes, you can fruit from inside of the bag with no maintenance. If its a p.cubensis (and depending on some p.cube substrain differ from one another on fruiting in minimal f.a.e environments) but if it is, then your set.

[Baphom3t]

This is invitro.

I am going to try NOT allowing the fruits to grow inside the bags like you see in that jar in the pic.
Duct tape is my answer.
Duct tape to shut light out on all sides and bottom to force the fruits upward is what my plan is, kiinda like lining a tub with black plastic when you do tubs.
From the looks of the bags I got at least 2-4 weeks of time before I need to do the last crumble then I'ma duct'em the fuck up to the grain levels and let em' ride.
I'm sure a few will still grow invitro but I'm betting blocking the light out will force more upwards growth.
 

[coorsmikey]

With grain alone as a substrate, You will get a very small yield or even none. If you do dunk the blocks you it will increase the odds but grain really doesn't hold much water. Big Mushrooms and especially a lot of them, need a lot of water. In most cases that you actually see good grows from grain alone there is a good casing layer that can be rehydrated quickly as the mushrooms pull the water from it. Even think about PF tek and how the Vermiculite is double the ratio of the brown rice or water. When folks add grain spawn to straight coir they don't add it dry, there is that extra water holding capacity that's make it work so well, not that coir is really feeding the mushrooms.

 

I'm not saying it won't work with grain alone, just not well. They do have those "all in one" bags for sale that has the grain layered in with straw and compost. The grain gets inoculated and colonizes. Once the grain is colonized you mix all the ingredients up and let it colonize again. You can basically forget about those bags and come back and find the bag exploding with mushrooms. I do think that's more along the line of what you want to be teaching your friend. Trying to fruit a bag of straight grain is most likely gonna have your buddy thinking that his teacher still has some learning to do.

[Baphom3t]

Y'all...... I know and understand what I need to do to get optimal flushes, but... I can't get the cleaning/sanitizing supplies I need to have a proper clean room for transfers....i.e, lysol, bleach, alcohol, H202, vinegar.... it's all gone where I live, hell most good dish soap is as well, so I'm trying to improvise with what I got.
Now if any one wants to send me any of the things I can't find....FUCK YEAH !!! do it.

@mikey,  I dunno man, here's part of a 3 lb block of chitwan in the middle of 1st flush that turned out just fine.

The block did fine for 5 flushes straight grain, no roll, I dunked it for 18 hrs after each flush and successive flushes produced fruit on the whole block, it was in my GH that was full of RH from my ultrasonic, but chitwan is not a monster cube compared to cambo's or PR's.

I will keep this updated for experimental reasons.
 

[pastyoureyes]

I've been fruiting in bags for a couple months now. My process has been to make separate substrate bags and split each grain bag up into multiple substrate bags.

I've been getting about 1/3 of what you would expect from a tub. Right now I'm running a side by side experiment with filling the fruiting bags a little less to see if this will increase yields.

As far as side pins in bags I have learned to just allow them to happen. They are much easier to harvest from bags than tubs.

My subs are usually on the wet side so I don't mist except between flushes.

You can dunk in a bag if you are careful with how you fill the water (don't get the filter wet). Place a 2 liter bottle or similar to keep the block submerged. I generally dont need to since my subs are "too wet" to begin with. YMMV

I use .2 micron filter bags for grains and .5 micron filters for fruiting
The "low" FAE will likely result in some monster fruits if you aren't opening the bag.

Here's one I'm about to harvest

[Baphom3t]

@pastyoureyes,
Thank you.
You are proving my working theory.
I expect less in return due to the coronavirus situation, but it's the process I'm teaching and I'd like to teach them the best I can in this situation so......here I am asking the best of the best.

If things were "normal" I wouldn't really be asking for much advice.
Any advice from others that have done bag grows I highly welcome.
Until then......I will fade back into the woods.

[Baphom3t]

So here's a quick update with where I am.
I think my LK and GT could be fruited. I have a few ideas.
I've thought about pasteurizing a 60/40 verm/coir, mixing it in the bag and fruiting this way.
I've thought of rolling a big ass 3lb block in verm and treat it as a brf cake.
And I've thought beings fully colonized myc is most contam resistant, I thought about just wiping everything down with iso and open air transfer like I have in the past.

Either way I am happy with the genetics of these spores. The GT isn't all rhizo as I'd like, but not much I could do about that unless I move to agar, but I think I'm going to wait till I get a fresh print.
I do know from the source that the LK and Maza was done on agar.
Comments and suggestions are always welcome.

Anyway.....here's a few pics.



These are close ups,  I did not resize them.
GT close up:

 

I like the way the myc is spreading in the second LK pic.
LK close up:



Maza up close:

 

[pastyoureyes]

The substrate ive been using is 50% coir 50% black kow.
Bags that ive filled more seem to produce larger fruits.

Each spawn bag has 3 qts of spawn which i split among 3 substrate bags. I use a 1:2 ratio of spawn to sub.

If you are going to roll the blocks and fruit like a cake you woul have been better off doing a tub imo.

[pastyoureyes]

[Baphom3t]

LK and GT are sitting in the oven waiting to fruit.
Maza is slow to grow but is worth it when you have a look at the beautiful rhizo growth in the pic below.
Mazatapec rhizomorphic growth.

[Baphom3t]

Pic of my setup with the LK and GT sitting in their new home.
So far everything is working swimmingly. I was able to do the transfer style I am use to.
So now it's all a waiting game.

[FunG]

Heh

I love those tier greenhouses, I've owned several in my time up until I found out p.cubensis dont need that controlled of a environment....now if you want to do pan cyans, then a tier greenhouse like you have is what's required.

You could have just seran wrapped your trays and got fruits since its p.cubensis, when they say they're easy to grow they're not lieing.

Points for the effort though

[Baphom3t]

FunG,
This type of setup is the way I've been growing since 2005.
The setup I use is pretty much automated.  Messing with saran wrap on those trays is more work than needed.

I don't have to mist, I don't have to worry about fanning for FAE 3 times a day or whatever.
I just set my shit on timers and bam, about the only thing I gotta do is put water in the humidifiers and maybe adjust the setting on them depending on outside RH.
Other than that it's pretty much set it, keep a eye on it, and forget it.

 

I've done PF, tubs, ya know, that shit you gotta manual mist and fan and well honestly that's to much work, so I went back to the way that was best for me which is as close to fully automated as possible greenhouse. Thanks for your "effort points" but I don't need them.
I'm a firm believer in the motto...... If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[Baphom3t]

Now we're getting where we need to go.
Casing on the left(LK), is a little thinner, not by much, than the casing on the right(GT), because my dumb ass didn't make enough, but it's covered.
The LK has proven to be aggressive as hell.
GT is moving as expected.

 

[Baphom3t]

Got some babies.
This very thinly cased LK started poopin' them out just a couple days ago.
It looks like it wanted to overlay but I only put about 1/32 of a inch or less in that tray because I just didn't make enough casing.

My first time at LK
From the looks of it, LK looks like it's gonna wanna cluster.
I had to dial in my setup a bit but once I got it all seems fine.
Setup is pretty constant at 88-94 RH, FAE 2-3 mins every 4-6 hrs.
GT's are being stubborn to fruit and MAZA gets transferred either later today or tomorrow.

 

[Baphom3t]

Got some babies.
1st flush in the works for the LK, Small but they're there. I been picking as they mature.


This GT has been very interesting, I did a peroxide solution on it because I was thinking I was gonna have to scrape it but I noticed pins and didn't scrape, so it started pooping out mush.


I'm sure there are things I could be doing better but all in all I'm a happy camper.
 

[Baphom3t]

Some LK pics from this morning.




I dunked the LK a couple days ago when the fruits were really small to help rehydrate the sub and it seems to be working.
GT's are moving along nicely.


I have 3 trays of Maza that are starting to concern me, the myc seems really aggressive with no sign of knotting. I'll post pics of them later as I may need some advice on them.