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#21 UnHeisenbug

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Posted 17 May 2020 - 08:08 AM

I like it but don't take the temperatures up into the 200F range. Stay between 150F and 165F for about three to four hours should do the trick just fine....

A

Already did. :/ Does this kill all the symbiotic bacteria or does this overcook the substrate?

Am I SOL Arathu? Or is this only suboptimal? I could start over. My spawn is waiting for me in the fridge, however.

Edited by UnHeisenbug, 17 May 2020 - 08:32 AM.


#22 UnHeisenbug

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Posted 17 May 2020 - 08:09 AM

Did you get some p cyan ? This thread is great .

Don’t watch the news!

No, I was asking for a friend of a friend.

I can always ask talk to them if you need any help/advice!

Do you grow p. Can?

Edited by UnHeisenbug, 17 May 2020 - 08:30 AM.

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#23 Arathu

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Posted 17 May 2020 - 08:41 AM

 

I like it but don't take the temperatures up into the 200F range. Stay between 150F and 165F for about three to four hours should do the trick just fine....

A

Already did. :/ Does this kill all the symbiotic bacteria or does this overcook the substrate?

Am I SOL Arathu? Or is this only suboptimal? I could start over. My spawn is waiting for me in the fridge, however.

 

It will likely work just fine but yes killing the bacteria is probably not a good thing (note that topic alone is WIDE OPEN for research as in what bacteria particularly and why, I add local soils and potting soils to all of my substrates when layering the beds)  On the extreme end of this concept, a sterilized substrate put outside into the open air will grow what ever compatible species is the most aggressive. We don't want a level playing field we want to tilt the odds greatly in the favor of the targeted species...

 

A


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#24 UnHeisenbug

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Posted 17 May 2020 - 11:29 AM

Thank you for your ongoing sharing of knowledge, Arathu.

Edited by UnHeisenbug, 17 May 2020 - 11:31 AM.

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#25 Mycol

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Posted 17 May 2020 - 02:45 PM

I put some Psilocybe cyan on agar a week ago. First time working with the them . Got a small spot of fuzz now tho ! Are they having trouble finding it where they are ? Might be able to send a sample but it’d be a month or two.
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#26 UnHeisenbug

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Posted 17 May 2020 - 03:06 PM

I put some Psilocybe cyan on agar a week ago. First time working with the them . Got a small spot of fuzz now tho ! Are they having trouble finding it where they are ? Might be able to send a sample but it’d be a month or two.

Great! Are you making an outdoor bed for those as well? You should start a grow log so I can follow along.
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#27 Moonless

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Posted 18 May 2020 - 12:11 AM

This is so cool! I'm glad its coming along so far. Outdoors I've only grown cubes with success (grown from failed or spent indoor grows) but have given my hand at reishi and oyster outdoor grows without success. Wine cap is something that my partner and I are interested in growing, though I don't know if its feasible for our climate, perhaps we'd have to get a specialized cultivar. Do you know if you have a local cultivar or a generic spawn?



#28 Mycol

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Posted 18 May 2020 - 06:20 AM

It will be eventually transferred outdoors yes . I’ll have to start one soon as I have a lot of questions too

#29 UnHeisenbug

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Posted 24 May 2020 - 12:57 PM

This is so cool! I'm glad its coming along so far. Outdoors I've only grown cubes with success (grown from failed or spent indoor grows) but have given my hand at reishi and oyster outdoor grows without success. Wine cap is something that my partner and I are interested in growing, though I don't know if its feasible for our climate, perhaps we'd have to get a specialized cultivar. Do you know if you have a local cultivar or a generic spawn?

I bought from a local provider. I tried to email them to ask what the strain is for the wine caps, but they have not replied. So, I'm not sure, moonless.

I live in USDA zone 7, I believe. Mild summers and mild winter. Lots of rain. Are you to hot or too cold for wine caps?

Did your outdoor dung lover grow attract bugs?

Edited by UnHeisenbug, 24 May 2020 - 12:59 PM.


#30 UnHeisenbug

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Posted 24 May 2020 - 01:31 PM

Grow Log update.

So last weekend I started a second bed. There are a few things differently.

First.
I soaked the cardboard in initially boiling water for two hours prior to the construction of the bed. This is something I missed from WayLits tek and picked up from Arathu's posts.

Second.
I found Hickory smoking chips. So I mixed about 400 grams with my bark mulch. They are price. About 5-6 squiggly doos for 400 grams.

Third.
Pasteurization. As the posts above, I soaked the chips overnight. Drip dried for several hours. Heat pasteurized them at 200 ( this is not recommended. See convo above) then dripped dried them above a bit.

As for the hickory, I soaked them for two hours before I mixed them with the bark mulch prior to the heat pasteurization.

Fourth.
Depth. Bigger tub of 8 Liters. I good 2 inches from the bottom to the first layer of spawn and about an inch in between.

Fifth, no tinfoil.
I used cling wrap to cover the tub in the end. It makes it difficult for photography

Three questions. One how wet should the chips be when I make the bed? Freshly rinsed? Can I feed these beds water while they incubate or should I just be patient? Also, I poked 16 holes into the cling wrap, is that enough or do I need tin foil?45175ce7c5db7b43f7f28584ac878d7c.jpg

#31 UnHeisenbug

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Posted 24 May 2020 - 01:35 PM

A week later the new bed and the pilots ( spawn that stuck to the container it came in that I mixed with woodchips ) have not grown much. This makes me nervous.

This is an exotic species and I don't know if the spawn is just a slower grower. I'm also anxious that I did not get the moisture right in the bed.

The first bed is doing great, though!

Have a good week, fungi friends!a076636c27c10d03c1d2726f69e28dc8.jpg4541abb47c9555748493f009933bb30c.jpg002f61deef884fbbb00f7edb666258c1.jpg
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#32 Arathu

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Posted 24 May 2020 - 05:59 PM

Good day fungi friend.....keep in mind I haven't grown wine caps so I'm just blathering from a woodlover standpoint in general.

 

Three questions.

 

One how wet should the chips be when I make the bed? Freshly rinsed? Chips are soaked and drained the same way each time. The idea that I try to stick to is getting the wood hydrated throughout and then allowing enough time to thoroughly drain excess water that would drain anyway. If the bed is actually outside in the ground it tends to not be such an issue. If the bed is a tub or container then there could be problems with standing water and making "mush" out of things. Hydration is something to study with fervor. Take a sample of a proposed substrate, say a wood chip of some kind and measure it's weight right  out of the package. Put that chip in the direct sunshine or better yet in an oven at 250F for a couple or three hours and then weight it again......now soak it in cold water for 24 hours and then drain, weigh it......finally let drip dry over night and weigh one final time. It gives you an idea of how that substrate will react in bulk. 10 chips is better than one for sure for tests like this.

Can I feed these beds water while they incubate or should I just be patient? I do not recommend adding water after the fact it can cause problems. I've drowned very nice growing mycelium by thinking I was doing good by watering them. After a bed is long established outside I'll water with a hose, watering can, or bucket, and etc. Drainage is as important as not letting things dry out. So IME sand or pea gravel at the bottom of the hole with the first layer of soaked cardboard next....then the layering of chips and span and other subs....finally grass clippings, grass mats, and grass roots as casings, also landscaping wood mulches make great moisture barrier and most woodlovers will even colonize that. Makes a great place for hyphal knotting to occur.

 

Also, I poked 16 holes into the cling wrap, is that enough or do I need tin foil? Should be plenty...I quit with tinfoil after my wife made start buying my own.....hahahaha. Plastic "shoe boxes" with loose lids work great....

 

Hope that helps some....

 

A


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#33 UnHeisenbug

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Posted 30 May 2020 - 02:10 PM

Good day fungi friend.....keep in mind I haven't grown wine caps so I'm just blathering from a woodlover standpoint in general.

Three questions.

One how wet should the chips be when I make the bed? Freshly rinsed? Chips are soaked and drained the same way each time. The idea that I try to stick to is getting the wood hydrated throughout and then allowing enough time to thoroughly drain excess water that would drain anyway. If the bed is actually outside in the ground it tends to not be such an issue. If the bed is a tub or container then there could be problems with standing water and making "mush" out of things. Hydration is something to study with fervor. Take a sample of a proposed substrate, say a wood chip of some kind and measure it's weight right out of the package. Put that chip in the direct sunshine or better yet in an oven at 250F for a couple or three hours and then weight it again......now soak it in cold water for 24 hours and then drain, weigh it......finally let drip dry over night and weigh one final time. It gives you an idea of how that substrate will react in bulk. 10 chips is better than one for sure for tests like this.
Can I feed these beds water while they incubate or should I just be patient? I do not recommend adding water after the fact it can cause problems. I've drowned very nice growing mycelium by thinking I was doing good by watering them. After a bed is long established outside I'll water with a hose, watering can, or bucket, and etc. Drainage is as important as not letting things dry out. So IME sand or pea gravel at the bottom of the hole with the first layer of soaked cardboard next....then the layering of chips and span and other subs....finally grass clippings, grass mats, and grass roots as casings, also landscaping wood mulches make great moisture barrier and most woodlovers will even colonize that. Makes a great place for hyphal knotting to occur.

Also, I poked 16 holes into the cling wrap, is that enough or do I need tin foil? Should be plenty...I quit with tinfoil after my wife made start buying my own.....hahahaha. Plastic "shoe boxes" with loose lids work great....

Hope that helps some....

A

Dude Arathu,

You currently fill the 'oldest hippie' archetype in my growing experience ATM ( not that I think your old, but the a source of wisdom. Like the oldest hippie around ) So your wood lovers perspective is very warmly welcome.

Cheers!
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#34 UnHeisenbug

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Posted 11 July 2020 - 03:37 PM

I'm going to transplanting these outdoors soon. They have had about 2 months two incubate. One bed has strong rhizomorphic growth and the other has weaker growth. However, I believe nature will take care of them.

I'm looking at making two patches of 15cm depth by 33cm by 33cm length and width. I'll be sure and put down a layer of perlite below the 15cm depth to allow for drainage. Then prepared cardboard layer. From there I'll be putting in layers of pasteurized (i used a small amount of bleach and overnight soak) mulch bark, then compost/soil mix, then the mycelium covered chips. Repeat until full. Cardboard layer on top to keep moisture in.

I could not find a bag of cacti soil. All the soil/compost at the local DIY was quite lack luster. So I have a bag of mulch compost I mix with soil for the soil layer. Probably not optimal, but I imagine it will due.

Does anyone know what exactly is great about cacti soil? Why is it prefered? Also, should I case the patch with some more compost and then cardboard?

I'm not adding straw so I'm hoping that does not set me back much.

I'm very excited to finally get these things in the earth!!
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#35 Arathu

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Posted 11 July 2020 - 05:12 PM

I just tested a casing of commercial bagged compost and well rotted sun/air dried maple. It's a piece of log that I've allowed to rot down until it's falling apart, "punky" wood is what it would called by the old timers around here....

 

Hey wait, I resemble that remark.....oh well.......In any case I now have Agaricus blazei, Grifola frondosa, Hypsizygus ulmarius, and Morchella esculenta, growing actively in a soil/wood mixture. LARGE tubs made from 55 gallon blue food barrels...

 

Barrels/tubs have straw casings while I'm loving what living moss is doing for hideaway beds tucked here and there. Once the lab work is over and we have vigorous fungus on wood chips the spectrum of what works seems pretty broad.....

 

A day or ten spent in the forests with some red eyes intellectually absorbing the natural look and feel of the micro climates where these organisms grow, and what constitutes that is time very well spent.......

 

Intuition and blatantly outright copying the master, thanks mom, seems to work most of the time......layered beds that are not compact or dense, fluffy damp substrates that drain very well and do not puddle, and a variety of foods and minerals, I'm sure bacteria too, in the moist shade...

 

I can smell the fungi when I think of it, make beds like that and fungus grows......that's just my philosophical approach to it. Some human lab work (agar, grains, to chips) and a whole bunch of nature lab work (layered beds in the shade) and boom, shrooms..............

 

Unless your weather is really dry AND you're not making these in the shade, I'd say just use a 3 to 5 cm mulch casing layer over the bed and keep it damp..........

 

I want to see your beds fruit............... :biggrin:

 

Good vibes man!

 

A


Edited by Arathu, 11 July 2020 - 05:15 PM.

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#36 UnHeisenbug

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 04:58 AM


A day or ten spent in the forests with some red eyes intellectually absorbing the natural look and feel of the micro climates where these organisms grow, and what constitutes that is time very well spent.......

 

 

Yeah, mushrooms aside I'm going to spend some time in the forest. Investigating mushrooms is a bonus!

 

I didn't need to even go out of my yard to find a mushroom growing out of a moss. It's as if you summoned it Arathu.

 

 

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#37 UnHeisenbug

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 05:17 AM

I transplanted my patches outdoors a couple of weeks ago. I got a bit LOST IN SPACE since, but here is what I recall:

 

1. Pasteurized my bark mulch the night before using ol' Woodlit Jims bit of bleach method.

 

2. I dug some wholes. I used a 1:3 (25% ratio) for both of my woodchip bins of 4L and 8L, but in the end it was very approximate. Again, as to Jimmies advice I dug the wholes to be 15cm (6 inches) deep for the layers of the bed. I dug a big deeper and filled it with perlite to avoid pooling water below the bed. The dimension of the bed were used to calculate the overall volume. For example, I wanted a 16L volume bed that is 15cm (6 inches) deep, so I adjusted the width and volume to do precisely that.

 

3. Used Arathu's advice on preparing cardboard for the bottom of the patch. That is, soak the cardboard in boiling hot water for an hour before using. I got an idea in my head that is it the stuff between the cardboard layers that the mushies really like, so pulled these out and used several sheets to line the bottom. idk if this is true.

 

4. Added a layer of bark mulch.

 

5. I mixed compost and soil to a maybe 7:3 mixture, respectively. Again, this ratio was guess work. This is all new to me.

I layered this on top of the bark mulch. Each layer was a done to thinly and completely cover the bottom layer. 15cm (6 inches) is not alot of space to layer which is something I learned when layering my woodchip tubs ( The ones done previously in this post)

 

6. Then comes what I like to call the "woodchip lasagna" that has healthy mycelial growth. I layer this on there.

 

7. I repeated steps 4-6 again and then add a casing layer of bark mulch for several inches. I ran out of bark mulch for my second bed, so the casing layer is not as complete. I added also add a casing of moss ( I have plenty in my yard) to the tops.

 

I will add some better photos of the finished beds and how they are doing in a bit.

 

 

 

 

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#38 Arathu

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 06:35 AM

Looking good man......hopefully it's now just a matter of time....keep those beds moist and watch especially during the natural fruiting time periods....

 

I can't wait to see you get some fruits coming off these beds........

 

A



#39 UnHeisenbug

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Posted 15 August 2020 - 05:22 AM

Alright, they are here.

 

pictures of finished patch (plus moss):

 

20200725_112515.jpg

20200724_112739.jpg

 

I've spent the last month giving my beds a brief showering every day when it does not rain. As well the tempatures have been hot. King Stropharia, Stropharia rugosoannulata, is a fungi that likes to fruit in the summer as I understand it. Also, they are a bit more sunshine tolerant than other mushrooms. That being said, the it has been usually hot here so the summer has been continuing strong. I surmise these are the conditions the King likes to fruit in.

 

20200812_103039.jpg

20200814_104455.jpg

 

I gave them a really good soak one day because it was maybe the hottest day this summer. The following days they decided to start to fruit. The first one was the real king, but still did not meet the mark as the giant King Stropharia has been depicted as. Perhaps future TLC can help the patch become so. The color on some of the fruit is not as burgundy as I would hope either.  Regardless they are tasty with a taste like a more flavorful portebello, perhaps with a more meaty texture.

 

20200813_090818.jpg

20200814_104742.jpg

 

I did have some troubles with slugs ( which I layed out poison for ) and animals. Some birds or rodents sometimes will dig in the patches. There are not any grains in them. I'm not sure if it's for the moistures or the bugs or even the mycelium itself. However, it typically has not been very deep or destructive.

 

Looking to the future I am seeking to better understand how to long term care for the patch. Is there anything I need to do after it fruits? I thinking to put another layer of casing on it to protect the mycelium that came up to fruit. Also, when do I know to feed or expand the patch? Is there anything I can do to get the patch to fruit again before summers end? If I have any experience with fruiting fungi, there generally is second fruit or atleast a few stragglers.

 

I want to start another patch indoors overwinter for a species that fruits in the Spring. I've heard the Oysters fruit in the Spring. Does anyone have any recommendations on other species to think about for spring fruits? 

 

Anyways, I took some spore prints if anyone would like some King Stropharia prints I have a few on hand to send out, just PM me.

 

Shout out to Arathu for your continued correspondence. You definitely helped me get a step closer to living in an actual  mycotopia :meditate:

 

 


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#40 Arathu

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Posted 15 August 2020 - 08:00 AM

Imma go take another set of pictures of the fungi tearing up wood chips under moss.....cause that shit works like a charm.....

 

I'm sure, in fact I know, that various casing layers like mulches and grasses work very well too....I create them in shallow plastic trays.

 

Grass seeds, other plants and mosses too, planted on very thin layers of potting/top soils in a plastic tub or even on loose roofing shingles will form very thick root mats if kept watered....

 

These work amazingly well when used as living casing layers. They are nutritious (the fungi colonize them) and they create that micro climate/boundary where the pins form.....

 

We create that "boundary" layer where the fungus reaches the light and the air, runs out of substrate to colonize in the vertical.....

 

And presumably, naturally, decides THIS is where it needs to reproduce, thus fruits.....

 

Excellent work brother..... :cool:

 

Other woodlovers will behave in a similar manner (although each will have it's own nuances and preferences but those details come from developing a true relationship with the organism)

 

By the way WE are learning and confirming these things together......the moss Idea I got from nature herself....look at that growth underneath....friggin beautiful!

 

A

 

 


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