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#41 Jrotten

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 12:33 AM

For brevity

AR15’s are not assault weapons. They are just another semiautomatic rifle that are cheap with lots of cheap accessories. Like low riders for rednecks.
Allowing AR15’s to be banned just because uneducated people don’t know the basics of firearms sets an unacceptable precedent
Semiautomatic shotguns would be much better for school shootings
Accidental choking kills multiples more people than mass shootings, no one is mandating CPR certification
Media has created the issue, politicians have perpetuated it, sociopaths followed the pattern presented to them.
Governments killed their own people in the 20th century more than war or any pandemic
Firearms are designed specifically to kill and yet kill far fewer people (even counting suicide) than things like cars.

So to answer the question “why are AR15’s necessary for freedom?” They aren’t. But since there is no justifiable reason to ban them and there are tons of reasons not to, and the right to own them is fundamental to the compromise that lead to the consent to the formation of our government, it is crucial that they not be banned because rights only exist when the are exercised. If you give up your freedom because you don’t need it right now, you don’t have it when you do need it.

To be clear: AR15s are just very common rifles. Probably the most common, not just for mass shooters, but for the general population. And rifles are a small percentage of guns used to commit murder of any kind, slightly more for “mass shootings” so essentially that’s like wanting to ban Ford Mustangs because they are the most common car involved in street racing deaths. Not because there’s anything special about them, they’re just more common in general. A Ford Mustang isn’t essential to freedom, but the government just deciding no one can have one is hardly “free.”

Edited by Jrotten, 03 May 2020 - 12:36 AM.

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#42 Tenderfoot

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 06:08 AM

Jrotten made my points, well said. 


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#43 Mycol

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 06:41 AM

If this was such a good thing that everybody wanted why didn’t they vote on it ? Why did Trudeau use his new executive powers given to him under the pandemic to pencil whip this thing into law ?
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#44 darci

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 07:49 AM

My father bought me an AR-15 when I was 15.  This is the black, scary looking gun that Hollywood shows bad guys shredding innocent people with.

 

I'll never forget how much time he spent explaining things about guns in the context of history, the US constitution, wars, despotism, dictatorships, etc along with a lot of safety training long before he ever let me touch one of the cartridges (or "bullets" to the layman).  One thing he told me that stands out in my mind to this day was "During the Great Depression, a 10-cent bullet put $20 of food on the table."

 

The truth is that the cartridge this rifle uses isn't powerful enough to legally be used to kill a deer in some states.  It is a 22 caliber round, meaning that the diameter of the bullet is 0.22 inches.  Most deer hunters use 30 caliber bullets - 0.30 inches or larger.  If you use the metric system, it's 5.56 millimeter for 22 caliber, and 7.62 millimeter for 30 caliber.  When politicians go around saying "high-caliber rounds" they have no idea what they're talking about.  The term "high caliber" is meaningless to anyone who actually knows about and uses guns, because what the uninformed don't tell you is that shooting something HURTS.  A gun's recoil from a deer rifle can leave your shoulder bruised.  An AR15 is more gentle and won't bruise you, because it's not that powerful.

 

Something more powerful than a deer rifle, like a gun used in African safaris is probably 40 caliber or larger, is so loud it can cause hearing damage even with plugs in your ears and can knock your ass over when the gun goes off.  A proper elephant gun can dislocate your shoulder.  It's like Mike Tyson slamming you in the face.  I'm 115 pounds and I can't fire a deer rifle without regret.  An AR15 is only about one-third as powerful as a 30 caliber deer rifle.  Essentially, most shooters will want a gun/cartridge that is only just big enough to do the job because anything larger is just too heavy, too loud, and too painful to use.  Gun users are not wackadoo cowboys firing cannons blindly at everything they can get their sights on.  The idiots who think like this and get their hands on a gun learn very fast or kill themselves with stupidity.

 

Also, an AR-15 only shoots one bullet when you pull the trigger.  It is not a "machine gun" or "assault rifle."  Machine guns and assault rifles are extremely difficult and expensive to get legally, and the FBI statistics show they have practically never been used in crimes because of their rarity and expense.  To buy a legal M-16 (a fully-automatic) these days will cost you about $20,000, a class 3 firearms license, at least 6 months waiting, and a letter from your local sheriff stating that they have confidence that you are not a criminal and pose no risk to the public.

 

But people legislate from ignorance all the time.

 

I hate the term "assault rifle."  It has within the name itself the intention of the tool, as if they are one and the same.  A pair of scissors are assault scissors if you stab someone with them.  Otherwise, they are just scissors.

 

Gun control activists keep pushing to have guns made illegal, but I ask them:  who is going to take them away?  Answer:  other people with guns, such as the police.

 

I know someone who was pulled over by a cop who ordered her out of the car, had her put her hands on it while he felt her up from ankles to tits before he let her go without a ticket or warning over anything else.  Is this the kind of person whose ethics and behavior you want to give monopoly ownership of guns to?

 

From all the books I've read that my dad left behind, and all the things he taught me growing up, and all the research and reading I've done since then, I can only interpret the continual erosion of gun rights as an effort by the evil people behind the New World Order to disarm the public so they can roll in their one world government without opposition.  I believe this so strongly that I find it terrifying every time I see news like this because to me it means there will be a day soon when the absolutely corrupt US government will turn its attention on its own people, just like Mao, Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, etc.

 

When that day comes, the useful idiots will have doomed us all with their support of gun control, while Orwell's 1984 will change from fiction to historical fact.

 

Never forget that its not individuals that pose the greatest threat, but governments.  Governments have killed hundreds of millions of people, while individuals have only killed hundreds.  To me, the difference of millions dying vs hundreds tells me which threat I should be more afraid of.

 

If you don't believe that it can happen in the USA, you are dangerously naive.


Edited by darci, 03 May 2020 - 09:03 AM.

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#45 darci

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 08:08 AM

As far as Canadians exporting to the US, or should it be called, "smuggling," the forces who operate such markets now might see it as an unwanted competition, and they won't like competition.  And if those operators are already paying all the proper bribes, then it will be state forces doing any enforcement.

 

On edit: One might assume the bribes are being distributed on both sides of the line, and any bought back or confiscated weapons will wind up with some part of the dominant operators (though maybe some stock footage of weapons being destroyed will be aired), who will quite likely be the buyers, back (and one can assume, bargain prices), behind the curtain, for this product which they can then sell internationally, anywhere their masters allow.  But then, we're talking corruption, and heck, that's the main issue (even if unspoken) in today's world, wherever you look.

 

Let's not forget who the biggest gun smuggler of all really is - the US government.  Look up "Operation Fast and Furious" where the ATF intentionally funneled THOUSANDS of guns outside of the country.  They explained this as an attempt to track them to drug dealers, but not one single drug dealer was arrested from this operation.

 

This is just one example where they got caught.  Let that sink in.  This is the same government gun-control activists trust to enforce gun laws!


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#46 darci

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 08:13 AM


Then there is the fact that a lot of "gun crime" in America is more about disenfranchisement than felonious behavior.  If you can disenfranchise people from their rights, from legal status, you can create "morally justified" separation by class, and from there you can do things like justify creating entire industries focused on mass incarceration.  You can create entire populations of "illegals" and use them as a pseudo-slave class.


 

 

Some of the first public efforts of gun control were a reaction to the Black Panthers walking around publicly armed.  I sound like a self-hating white person to my mom when I say this, but the assholes in government can and have been some of the most racist motherfuckers on planet earth, and dangerously so because they are in positions of power.  It was only when black people started exercising their rights that suddenly these rights began to appear as a problem.

 

But the minute you begin to excuse this kind of behavior in the government, you come under threat as well.  Because MLK was right when he said "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."

 

I will always believe that power should rest in the hands of the people.  As soon as the scale tilts in favor of government, the people are fucked and at that point the only way they'll get their freedoms back is war.

 

Look at the oppression in China, where protesters were driven over by tanks in Tienanmen Square, where millions are now in concentration camps, murder of citizens occurs regularly whenever someone so much as breathes a word against their government, their organs are harvested and sold internationally to fund state operations, and the people have no way to fight back.  They are FUCKED there right now, and that regime continues to expand its influence on the globe.  Some US politicians consider China to be "inspiring."

 

Gun control activists - be careful.  Be very, very careful what you wish for.  You might not like what you get.


Edited by darci, 03 May 2020 - 08:25 AM.

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#47 darci

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 08:20 AM

 

 

 

Just not sure I buy the justification. If someone could show some credible evidence that our gun violence problem will be reduced by making semi automatic rifles illegal I would be more than happy to give up my rifle. It feels like a weak argument, more like well we have to do something!

 

 

If only single shot bolt action rifles were allowed the Las Vegas shooting would have turned out much different. I'm not saying they couldn't smuggle them in somehow, but you didn't mention it. 58 dead and over 400 wounded. Then from the craziness another 400 were injured. 

 

Naturally, I have no firsthand knowledge of this event, but statements abound on the internet that witnesses reported shots coming from several directions, not just the hotel.  Some witnesses said there was a black helicopter hovering nearby from which most of the shots actually came from.  Also, several of these witnesses who have spoken out publicly have ended up dead since then.

 

Not proof... but so many times a mass shooting occurs, there are strange associations.

 

If you think a government would never kill its own people to further an agenda, let's not forget Operation Northwoods, where it was proposed that the US government kill some of its own citizens in a public attack that they would blame on Castro so that the US could have the needed excuse to go to war in Cuba.  The fact that they even think of this shit should be reason enough for concern. 


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#48 darci

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 08:36 AM

What I don't understand is how in the US you can just walk around in public with your weapon down the bar street, or show up to the protest with your weapon. It makes me really uncomfortable that when you show up to the state capital for to protest the muslim ban, there has to be a counter protest full of gun toting white men 50 yards away.

I think those people who are taking guns to the protest are really out of touch. Alot of the time it seems like the police are less harsh on these protestors when shit hits the fan than the unarmed ones. What gives?

 

I don't know if this is a national or state thing but I think that its just not right to make public institution  allow people to carry guns around, especially schools and universities or jam packed bar streets.

 

If anyone knows why we should reasonably have assault weapons in particular I'd like to hear it. Most arguments for allowing them are the 'slippery slop' idea and the guns don't kill people idea. Dont get me wrong. Tenderfoot, I am talking to you in particular. I agree that not allowing a group of people to have guns can be damaging, but we already do that with felons correct? So why is this instance of making assault weapons banned but still allowing these people to have other types of guns, semi auto from before 1984 so problematic?

 

 

Because when the US colonies were formed, and then the British demanded they start paying taxes to England, the colonies asked what they got in return.  They got no representation, no goods, no services, no protection, yet they were taxed heavily.  England began sending troops, and tried to enforce laws to disarm the colonists and enforce their heavy taxation, which was bankrupting the nation.

 

When the revolutionary war broke out, and the US achieved independence form England, the US constitution was created in memory of the offenses the crown committed against the United States.  One of them was the insistence that only the government was allowed to be armed.  Independence from England's rule - and equivalently - independence from rule by despots and dictators - was seen as possible only when the people had enough force to oppose it.  This meant weapons.  So one of the bill of rights, the 2nd amendment stated that the people will not be disarmed by their government.  They knew what came next if they did.  It's been the same with practially every citizen-murdering dictatorship around the globe for the 2 centuries since.

 

Estimates of murder by governments during the 20th century range from a low of 75 million to a high over 250 million.  This is called "democide" - the killing of the people by their own governments.  Even if it's only 75 million, try and imagine how many people that is.  Whatever the number of dead might be, it's orders of magnitude greater than any threat a lone psycho with an AR15 could ever achieve.

 

Power expands as far as it can until it meets an equal opposing force.  This is what the whole of written history is about.  Give a government power, and it will take it all and reach for more.  Eventually, it reaches a point where it's killing its own people as enemies of the state in the name of protecting itself.

 

Some Americans still understand this.  Some don't.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democide

 

 

Whew... this was exhausting.  I'm going to get of my soapbox now.


Edited by darci, 03 May 2020 - 09:08 AM.

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#49 Arathu

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 08:56 AM

 I will just say, IMHO, that a fool trusts his/her own and families safety to anyone but themselves and those they've built true and deep relationships with........

 

WE THE PEOPLE is only what WE make it to be.......divided makes it????? Random methane outbursts???

 

I ask myself, will passing more laws, disarming law abiding citizens, make the world safer? Make the neighborhood safer? Is that going to "get rid" of the scary guns and crazy or emotionally broken people driving around? And after that, THEN, only "the good guys" will have them to make sure all stays that way?.................

 

RIGHT! I'm supposed to believe in something like that? Hahahahahaha.....holy shit! 

 

Is there such a thing as "the good guys"?

 

Indeed...........interesting times....

 

A


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#50 Jrotten

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 08:58 AM

The Las Vegas incident wasn’t deadly because AR15’s. Technically he had many guns with him. Some of the firearms were modified to allow higher rates of fire. The high rise building he was in was just as much a contributing factor as the guns. Do we really need high floor capacity buildings? If you can’t do it in 6 stories, you’re an awful architect. The designer of that building should have known this would happen.... so on and so forth.

Despite how tragic the Las Vegas incident is, what Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, and Hitler did is more so. We live in the safest time in human history. So why now are guns so dangerous?

Other things worth mentioning: in the LA Riots police refused to go into Koreatown and left those people there to protect themselves. Police carry guns to protect themselves, not you, and the police have no legal obligation to protect you. In cases like the Miami UPS/jewel hostage case recently the cops are the ones that killed the hostage. We’re in a time where society is quite literally on the brink of collapse. How in good conscience does anyone argue for the taking of firearms unless they might be the ones doing the aggression?

Trudeau’s Timing is terrifying.
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#51 Alder Logs

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 09:44 AM

 

As far as Canadians exporting to the US, or should it be called, "smuggling," the forces who operate such markets now might see it as an unwanted competition, and they won't like competition.  And if those operators are already paying all the proper bribes, then it will be state forces doing any enforcement.

 

On edit: One might assume the bribes are being distributed on both sides of the line, and any bought back or confiscated weapons will wind up with some part of the dominant operators (though maybe some stock footage of weapons being destroyed will be aired), who will quite likely be the buyers, back (and one can assume, bargain prices), behind the curtain, for this product which they can then sell internationally, anywhere their masters allow.  But then, we're talking corruption, and heck, that's the main issue (even if unspoken) in today's world, wherever you look.

 

Let's not forget who the biggest gun smuggler of all really is - the US government.  Look up "Operation Fast and Furious" where the ATF intentionally funneled THOUSANDS of guns outside of the country.  They explained this as an attempt to track them to drug dealers, but not one single drug dealer was arrested from this operation.

 

This is just one example where they got caught.  Let that sink in.  This is the same government gun-control activists trust to enforce gun laws!

 

And before that, we might look at the Iran/Contra affair.  The web of arms dealing in that time included several tractor trailer loads of missiles.   Included in that web was the Gander Newfoundland Arrow Air crash with a load of soldiers and smuggled armaments.  The movie: Lord of War, isn't completely fictional.


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#52 Arathu

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 10:17 AM

 

 

As far as Canadians exporting to the US, or should it be called, "smuggling," the forces who operate such markets now might see it as an unwanted competition, and they won't like competition.  And if those operators are already paying all the proper bribes, then it will be state forces doing any enforcement.

 

On edit: One might assume the bribes are being distributed on both sides of the line, and any bought back or confiscated weapons will wind up with some part of the dominant operators (though maybe some stock footage of weapons being destroyed will be aired), who will quite likely be the buyers, back (and one can assume, bargain prices), behind the curtain, for this product which they can then sell internationally, anywhere their masters allow.  But then, we're talking corruption, and heck, that's the main issue (even if unspoken) in today's world, wherever you look.

 

Let's not forget who the biggest gun smuggler of all really is - the US government.  Look up "Operation Fast and Furious" where the ATF intentionally funneled THOUSANDS of guns outside of the country.  They explained this as an attempt to track them to drug dealers, but not one single drug dealer was arrested from this operation.

 

This is just one example where they got caught.  Let that sink in.  This is the same government gun-control activists trust to enforce gun laws!

 

And before that, we might look at the Iran/Contra affair.  The web of arms dealing in that time included several tractor trailer loads of missiles.   Included in that web was the Gander Newfoundland Arrow Air crash with a load of soldiers and smuggled armaments.  The movie: Lord of War, isn't completely fictional.

 

True story.........I knew some of them and some you didn't hear about too........

 

........haunts me to this day........... :hookah:

 

A



#53 Alder Logs

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 10:18 AM

It's like I said earlier.  The citizens should disarm just after the governments do.  It's the only sane approach.  Anything else is really asking for trouble.  And I have been pretty much a pacifist all my life.  My .22 single shot serves my purposes in dealing with problem animals here (and would suffice for any cannibals trying to sneak up on me), but I am glad others are applying the 2nd Amendment as it was intended.  If they need someone to reload their guns, I would do that for them, if it's down to guerilla warfare against tyrannical forces.  I just don't have the money or capacity to have the kinds of arms for that here.   I'm glad some do. 

 

 

 

dog_newspaper.jpg

 

the_next_to_the_last_act_of_defiance_pos


Edited by Alder Logs, 03 May 2020 - 10:39 AM.

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#54 TVCasualty

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 10:26 AM

 

 

 

 

Just not sure I buy the justification. If someone could show some credible evidence that our gun violence problem will be reduced by making semi automatic rifles illegal I would be more than happy to give up my rifle. It feels like a weak argument, more like well we have to do something!

 

 

If only single shot bolt action rifles were allowed the Las Vegas shooting would have turned out much different. I'm not saying they couldn't smuggle them in somehow, but you didn't mention it. 58 dead and over 400 wounded. Then from the craziness another 400 were injured. 

 

Naturally, I have no firsthand knowledge of this event, but statements abound on the internet that witnesses reported shots coming from several directions, not just the hotel.  Some witnesses said there was a black helicopter hovering nearby from which most of the shots actually came from.  Also, several of these witnesses who have spoken out publicly have ended up dead since then.

 

Not proof... but so many times a mass shooting occurs, there are strange associations.

 

If you think a government would never kill its own people to further an agenda, let's not forget Operation Northwoods, where it was proposed that the US government kill some of its own citizens in a public attack that they would blame on Castro so that the US could have the needed excuse to go to war in Cuba.  The fact that they even think of this shit should be reason enough for concern. 

 

 

One of my cousins was there. He had to run for his life and his best friend's son was killed. He only heard shots from one source, and he's well-acquainted with firearms and dealing with active shooters as a member of a very busy SWAT team (LA County).



#55 FLASHINGROOSTER

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 11:49 AM

 

 

 

Just not sure I buy the justification. If someone could show some credible evidence that our gun violence problem will be reduced by making semi automatic rifles illegal I would be more than happy to give up my rifle. It feels like a weak argument, more like well we have to do something!

 

 

If only single shot bolt action rifles were allowed the Las Vegas shooting would have turned out much different. I'm not saying they couldn't smuggle them in somehow, but you didn't mention it. 58 dead and over 400 wounded. Then from the craziness another 400 were injured. 

 

I know what you mean, sometimes I go in circles talking about it. We already had reduced magazine capacity laws as well as ban's on those bump stocks that convert semi auto into full. Unfortunately none of those laws stopped our recent mass shooting where the person obtained all his firearms illegally. It was creepy, he dressed up as a police officer to fool the public

 

I don't think anyone can really say that for sure what would have happened if there were different laws in Vegas. When you are willing to go to that length I doubt the legality of obtaining the weapon is going to a be a concern? You have signed either your death warrant or a life in jail when you plan on mass murder. What is the threat of a weapons charge going to do

 

We can do the what if game both ways, so if all those things were illegal perhaps he would have made another plan. What if he drove a mac truck into the crowd. Or planted a bomb under the stage. Or what if he stole an airplane and crashed it. Who the frigg knows, we can never really say


Edited by flashingrooster, 03 May 2020 - 11:50 AM.

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#56 Alder Logs

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 11:53 AM

There will be no need for such mass murder gun events, once the citizens have been sufficiently disarmed.  The "problem, reaction, solution," mechanism will have served its purpose.  Then we will be living happily ever after.


Edited by Alder Logs, 03 May 2020 - 11:54 AM.

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#57 Moonless

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 12:00 PM

 

 

 

 

Just not sure I buy the justification. If someone could show some credible evidence that our gun violence problem will be reduced by making semi automatic rifles illegal I would be more than happy to give up my rifle. It feels like a weak argument, more like well we have to do something!

 

 

If only single shot bolt action rifles were allowed the Las Vegas shooting would have turned out much different. I'm not saying they couldn't smuggle them in somehow, but you didn't mention it. 58 dead and over 400 wounded. Then from the craziness another 400 were injured. 

 

I know what you mean, sometimes I go in circles talking about it. We already had reduced magazine capacity laws as well as ban's on those bump stocks that convert semi auto into full. Unfortunately none of those laws stopped our recent mass shooting where the person obtained all his firearms illegally. It was creepy, he dressed up as a police officer to fool the public

 

I don't think anyone can really say that for sure what would have happened if there were different laws in Vegas. When you are willing to go to that length I doubt the legality of obtaining the weapon is going to a be a concern? You have signed either your death warrant or a life in jail when you plan on mass murder. What is the threat of a weapons charge going to do

 

We can do the what if game both ways, so if all those things were illegal perhaps he would have made another plan. What if he drove a mac truck into the crowd. Or planted a bomb under the stage. Or what if he stole an airplane and crashed it. Who the frigg knows, we can never really say

 

That's actually a good point, when we think about gun bans we think they are a golden ticket but they obviously aren't. The black market is always going to thrive especially if those thing can be made locally or just south of the border where they are legal! While certain gun restricts might be able to keep us up with the times and try to bottle neck our technology, and even perhaps reduce the most deadly mass shootings, we have to come to terms that those sick people are always around. But does that mean that gun bans don't make it more difficult for them?


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#58 TVCasualty

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 12:29 PM

The black market is always going to thrive especially if those thing can be made locally or just south of the border where they are legal!

 
Are you Canadian? I ask because "south of the border" for an American would be Mexico which has extremely strict gun laws, and there's only one gun store in the entire country. And yet...

 
I've read accounts of a rise in confiscations of home-made firearms in Australia in the years since they enacted strict gun control. But it's a growing issue wherever they are restricted:
 

But where restrictions are tight and illicit manufacturing has become well-established, DIY guns are increasingly prevalent:

Improvised and craft-produced small arms account for a sizable proportion of weapons seized in domestic law enforcement operations in several countries. In the UK, some 80 per cent of all guns used in crime in 2011 and 2012 were improvised, craft-produced, or converted; in São Paulo, Brazil, 48 per cent of the sub-machine guns recovered during the same period were homemade; and in Indonesia, 98 per cent of the guns confiscated from robbery suspects in 2013 were homemade.

 

https://reason.com/2...guns-people-ma/

 
Here's a handy guide to get folks started on making their own legal firearm: https://reason.com/2...ake-your-own-o/



#59 darci

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 02:02 PM

No mass shooter ever said to themselves "I'd really like to kill a lot of people today, but darn it... the gun I want to do it with is illegal."

 

There are a hundred other ways to kill.  Wasn't there a situation recently where some jerk jumped in a car and drove through a ton of pedestrians?

 

What about those nations where rampages of individuals or armies sliced their way through thousands with machetes?  Wouldn't you have wished you had a gun when one of them was coming after you?

 

Also, some official statistics show that guns are used far more often to prevent crime than cause it.  Imagine someone trying to break into your house, fiddling quietly at a window or door.  You grab your gun and chamber a round.  CLICK-CLICK.  They hear you and run.

 

Or an assailant/rapist following you.  Do you think he's going to continue to follow you to your car when you pull a revolver out of your purse?  I've made my gun ready several times when fear made the hair stand up on my neck.  I don't know whether there was intent or not, but I wasn't going to find out.

 

Lastly, gun control will not cure a society full of economic/social/healthcare problems.  Our society is suffering a deterioration on many fronts, and people's psychological disposition is crumbling.  Hard times bring out the worst in people.  If someone desperate/hungry/angry is coming after you - in defense you can try to explain that what they are doing is wrong (assuming they speak English!), or you can speak a language they are sure to understand.

 

I was raped in my teens.  I promise you, never again.


Edited by darci, 03 May 2020 - 02:06 PM.

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#60 Wimzers

Wimzers

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 02:26 PM

My point was that a single shot bolt action rifle wouldn't cause the amount of death and injury when compared to a semi-automatic with fully loaded high capacity magazines ready to go. I'm sure he converted some of his weapons to full auto, but I didn't research the incident because I'm not going to learn anything that I really need to know. 

 

Sorry that happened to you Darci. 


Edited by Wimzers, 03 May 2020 - 02:30 PM.

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