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Cities on Fire


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#501 Juthro

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Posted 09 April 2021 - 06:57 PM

I've been watching a bit of the trial unfold myself, and IMHO, I'm not seeing any of the reasonable doubt your suggesting. 

 

Experts, and eye witness have testified that Chauvin held his knee of Floyd's neck for a solid 9 and a half minutes, all while Floyds was face down, and handcuffed behind his back.  During this time Floyd quite breathing, and died.  Do you honestly expect any reasonable person to accept that as just a coincidence? 

 

And lets remember that he was completely restrained, and in custody.  Then they removed him from the back of a squad car, and laid him down in the street before they killed him.

 

EDIT: Formatting issues


Edited by Juthro, 09 April 2021 - 08:31 PM.


#502 August West

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Posted 09 April 2021 - 11:26 PM

I've been watching a bit of the trial unfold myself, and IMHO, I'm not seeing any of the reasonable doubt your suggesting. 

 

Experts, and eye witness have testified that Chauvin held his knee of Floyd's neck for a solid 9 and a half minutes, all while Floyds was face down, and handcuffed behind his back.  During this time Floyd quite breathing, and died.  Do you honestly expect any reasonable person to accept that as just a coincidence? 

 

And lets remember that he was completely restrained, and in custody.  Then they removed him from the back of a squad car, and laid him down in the street before they killed him.

 

EDIT: Formatting issues

 

 

I think Rooster has a very valid point here and imo, I believe people, especially in cities, may want to be prepared for an acquittal. I believe that the prosecution has way overcharged in this case. It's extremely difficult to convict a police officer of murder. Do you have any idea how rare that is? All the stuff about "9 minutes on his neck, police custody, restraint", all of this shows a misunderstanding of how the law is applied to policing. This is what infuriates me so much about trying to turn this into a story about race (which I'm not suggesting anyone here is, even if they feel that way). This is not about race. This is about policing. This is not the first time and, if memory serves, I don't believe it was the last time someone died from the use of this "restraint". This was standard Minneapolis PD (and many, many other jurisdictions) procedure. People have made the same infuriating error in the Breonna Taylor case...which almost nobody has any idea about what actually happened. She's dead because of the leeway police officers get, "in the line of duty". 

 

Reasonable has no bearing here. This is about U.S. law and how it is applied. It's not a jury's job to be reasonable. It's their job to follow orders. And, that Fentanyl fact...no small point, either.

 

I believe the dude was murdered. If they just let him pass his fucking fake $20 and go home and pass out, he probably doesn't die. This may be an great opportunity to apply the underutilized tactic of jury nullification (look that shit up if you wanna be an activist). Should the dude be convicted of murder - yes. Will he be...good fucking luck.


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#503 FLASHINGROOSTER

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Posted 10 April 2021 - 10:44 AM

Suppose that's a normal reaction for us to have Juthro, or else those lawyers would not be doing their job if we agreed haha. I am going to check out the 9 minute narrative some more today to see what it does to my current opinion, there is so much to watch I have hardly cracked the egg.

 

August covered a good response I don't have much to add without sounding verbose.  Just that there seems to be a bit of a difference to what the news is reporting versus what can actually be said in a court room. One room allows for much speculation while the other seeks to eradicate or control any such outlet

 

I always thought it would be so confusing as a juror to hear so many things and then be told to disregard them. As if you mind works the same as a pencil and eraser. Watching the actual court footage I never realized how tedious all this stuff is. The court room drama you see on television is absurd. The reality is as expected, much slower , technical, and of course boring to watch. Some of the witness's got frustrated by the nature of the proceedings due to the simple yes or no nature of the questions. Nope the way you asked that question insinuated a certain narrative so the jury must disregard it.  The way you answered that implied this or that so strike it, stop talking now, okay now talk when I say, holy crap. That one mma guy was rightly so getting frustrated trying to follow all the court room jargon between the lawyers and the judge.

 

Imagine that jury selection process, finding enough people that had never heard of his death, and the reaction that followed heard round the world.

 

 

This was another case similar to George's but did not receive the same attention. Tony called the cops on himself in this case, it might make it even more infuriating considering he was trying to do the responsible thing

 

[Direct Link]

 

So what happened to the officers?

 

Kevin Mansell, Danny Vasquez, and Dustin Dillard -- were indicted by a grand jury in 2017 on charges of misdemeanor deadly conduct. Following two days of testimony, the grand jury's indictment stated that the "officers engaged in reckless conduct that placed Tony Timpa in imminent danger of serious bodily injury."

 

In March of last year, Dallas County District Attorney John Creuzot dismissed the charges.

 


Edited by FLASHINGROOSTER, 10 April 2021 - 11:03 AM.


#504 TVCasualty

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Posted 10 April 2021 - 12:10 PM

The verdict (and what follows) in the Chauvin case will probably give us an early glimpse of how the coming Summer is likely to go.

I imagine it won't be great either way. There's a lot of pent up rage and anxiety that needs to be dealt with, and it probably won't be accomplished peacefully. One side of the bullshit culture war is going to be really pissed off by the verdict no matter what, and both seem eager to fight.
 

I saw a guy get gunned down in his company work vehicle yesterday about 50 feet in front of me (the company name and logo were painted on the side). I was at a bank drive-through window and what might have been a road rage-inspired active shooter situation rolled up on me. I had an overwhelming gut feeling of extreme danger and became hyper-alert just beforehand but I couldn't see why until the vehicle came into view. Time slowed, colors intensified, sounds amplified. Adrenaline is amazing shit. I can totally see why the elites harvest it from kids or whatever.

Anyway, the guy in the adjacent drive-thru lane was looking at me like he thought I might be crazy since I was suddenly sitting up tall and turning my head back-and-forth as far as it would go in both directions real fast, which probably did look pretty weird (it was the "head on a swivel" thing on crack, basically). I picked out several good options for hard cover I would be diving behind if things escalated and started looking for safe routes out of the area both on foot and in my car. The guy watching me act weird had no clue anything was going on at all. Typically oblivious. Which can be fatal. Don't be that guy.

Cops swarmed within 5 minutes as one had been parked across the street (but moved slow at first since I guess it was initially assumed the wreck was just a routine car accident). The driver had been shot while driving into the large shopping center parking lot and was probably already dead as he rolled by me. I looked him in the eye as he went by and there was no life in it looking back as the vehicle coasted into a parked car. What I thought was a shadow over the left side of his head turned out to be blood (he'd been shot in the head as well as through the door). I couldn't tell at first as his skin was very dark. He looked young. The news reported that he was 28.

When I left the bank I drove out the way his vehicle had approached from (which was also the opposite direction from the cop swarm) and saw he'd hit a parked car pretty hard while he was swerving to the right which caused a fair bit of blood to spatter on to the hood of the car from his gushing head wound. He might not have been steering at all at that point, actually.

It was reported in the local news, but only as a relative footnote with a couple of brief paragraphs since there were 3 other shootings with a combined total of 5 or 6 other fatalities yesterday that got considerably more coverage. The cops looked bored and a little annoyed to have to be there. Just another routine murder in broad daylight in a crowded shopping center. [yawn...]

 

Stay aware of your surroundings, and when your inner vision/intuition/"gut feeling" gets intense and you're suddenly overwhelmed with the sense that "something real  bad is happening right now," heed it!


I quit updating the "Countries on Fire" thread because there are too many to keep up with. That'll probably be the case with cities again this year, too. I guess I should've just posted a single thread for all and called it "World on Fire."

 


 


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#505 rockyfungus

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Posted 10 April 2021 - 12:29 PM

Are you ok? Like how are you doing after seeing these events unfold. Not to be a busybody, but don't underestimate one off traumatic experiences like that...


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#506 TVCasualty

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Posted 10 April 2021 - 12:41 PM

Yeah, I'm fine. I appreciate the concern.



#507 Juthro

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Posted 10 April 2021 - 04:01 PM

 

 

I think Rooster has a very valid point here and imo, I believe people, especially in cities, may want to be prepared for an acquittal. I believe that the prosecution has way overcharged in this case. It's extremely difficult to convict a police officer of murder. Do you have any idea how rare that is? All the stuff about "9 minutes on his neck, police custody, restraint", all of this shows a misunderstanding of how the law is applied to policing. This is what infuriates me so much about trying to turn this into a story about race (which I'm not suggesting anyone here is, even if they feel that way). This is not about race. This is about policing. This is not the first time and, if memory serves, I don't believe it was the last time someone died from the use of this "restraint". This was standard Minneapolis PD (and many, many other jurisdictions) procedure. People have made the same infuriating error in the Breonna Taylor case...which almost nobody has any idea about what actually happened. She's dead because of the leeway police officers get, "in the line of duty". 

 

Reasonable has no bearing here. This is about U.S. law and how it is applied. It's not a jury's job to be reasonable. It's their job to follow orders. And, that Fentanyl fact...no small point, either.

 

I believe the dude was murdered. If they just let him pass his fucking fake $20 and go home and pass out, he probably doesn't die. This may be an great opportunity to apply the underutilized tactic of jury nullification (look that shit up if you wanna be an activist). Should the dude be convicted of murder - yes. Will he be...good fucking luck.

 

 

Let me clarify my position.  I absolutely think the cop could be acquitted of all charges, but not because I feel there is any shadow of a doubt that he didn't murder George Floyd without cause. 

 

I agree that the problem is the system of enforcement, but that's never going to change unless enough people start to stand up, and call it out as wrong, and unjust.  I cant see how any intelligent person could hear those expert testimonies, watch that video, and still think what the cops did was justified, or that it didn't directly kill Mr. Floyd.

 

I can say with pretty good certainty that 'cities on fire' is going to be the right thread to talk about this if they don't convict Chauvin.  I don't think it will limited to Minneapolis either.   My guess is it will be millions, if not billions of dollars in damage across the entire country, and more lives will be lost.   I hope I'm wrong, but it's the way I see it coming down the pipe.



#508 FLASHINGROOSTER

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Posted 11 April 2021 - 11:14 AM

Yeah Jesus TV, man that shit is intense. Even watching a complete stranger die can be a traumatic experience, not to blow it out of proportion but it is for sure good to talk about it

 

I know what your saying Juthro, anyone who can watch that guy stop breathing and say it was justified and that the victim deserved it would have a serious lack of ethics and empathy. That video of Toni highlights just as disgusting behavior by the police, like when they are joking and laughing about him being a kid that doesn't want to get up and go to school after he stops breathing. You can see how pissed of the paramedics are when they arrive because they know he is dead. Notice how the one paramedic makes the police officer perform the pointless but protocol required attempt at resuscitation in the ambulance, trying to teach the oblivious fuck a life lesson(This also helps to explain the paramedics relatively slow movements during what one would assume was a time sensitive situation)  Another fallacy brought to you by your regular scheduled programing. In real life if your heart stops and your an adult you are dead.... End of story folks. That bullshit with the defib does not work for a stopped heart, it can place an irregular beat back into rhythm however.

 

In my mind justice was not served so I guess all I am saying is I would not be shocked to see it happen again. So I question why some of the media is making it appear to be a slam dunk, who does that benefit? As far as I can tell all it really does is help stack more dynamite on the pile. I can see cracks in the prosecution that the defense can pick at and try to shake the jury up. Doesn't mean any of it is right, it is just a possibility I see happening.

 

We know what the media will decry if this case doesn't go their way, their favorite way to explain away any narrative that did not pan out.

 

Systemic racism

 

And who said the Jury was intelligent haha?

 

 

I posted this purely for the clip of Charles you can skip the news commentary

 

[Direct Link]


Edited by FLASHINGROOSTER, 11 April 2021 - 11:44 AM.





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