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Psychotria Carthaginensis


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#21 tregar

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 06:09 AM

The peruvian psychotria viridis yielded next to nothing.

250 grams along with 3 defats and 4 to 5 pulls yielded next to nothing--around 50 mg or so....this might explain why the 'real ayahuasca' brew made with it never did work--it was completely inactive, not to mention very cheap to buy--less than $50 per kilo.

Hawaiian leaf is most likely much better (better soil conditions, more active). It is also much more expensive.

#22 elgr

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 06:56 PM

I wonder how active the fresh leaves would be in tea?

I know the difference in fresh to dry viridis is noticable, and I know people get an effect from carth leaves without brewing up a *ridiculous* amount.

#23 ClearLight

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 07:49 PM

I have a trash bag full of those leaves.. they never ever worked.. I tried a TLC on it.. got nothing for the small amount I ran.. no joy.. turn them into compost..

#24 Hippie3

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 08:34 PM

.FOAF can hardly stand the taste of real aya brew...like drinking muddy water and extreme bitterness at the same time..


that bitterness [tannin] can largely be neutralized by
adding a protein such as gelatin.

#25 tregar

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 08:47 PM

On second look after freezing the 1/10 evaporated naphtha, I actually got zero crystals...in other words the peruvian leaf was completely inactive...it looked like I at least had 50mg or so, but in actuality, there is nothing there.

It also looks very very pale green and sort of 'sickly' compared to the Hawaiian leaf I have--the hawaiian leaf looks very healthy after it dried, and very green with hardy ribs up and down the leaf and 'full of life'. The difference between the look of the dried Peruvian Leaf and the dried Hawaiian Leaf is startling.

Next step is to determine if the Hawaiian fares better--and I hope it does.

Everything was done absolutely correctly in the process, the ph = 4, 6 liters of peruvian leaf water was simmered down to 600ml on the stove, then it was defatted with warm xylene 3 times in a sep funnel, then it was basified to ph = 13.30, then it was extracted about 5 times with 100ml warm naptha each time, and the combined naptha was evaporated down to 1/10 the volume, and frozen, recovered no active crystals. I was planning to wash the product with chilled ammonia water, but then found out I had no product!

I am mostly interested in using aya orally, so I may just go back to taking the filtered and decanted ph=4 psychotria (from good leaf) water and simmer it down to 500ml, then just evaporate it down to a tarry powder for reconstitution in hot water at a later date for 'instant ayahuasca' with the harmine hcl...but will also take some of the 'leaf extraction powder' and basify it and extract it a few times with naptha to at least make sure it forms some crystals, so I know its active!

This would also explain why (when I tried real aya using this particular peruvian leaf with caapi) all I could feel was the caapi and had no visions.

#26 Hippie3

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 09:48 PM

i too found the Hawaiian viridis to be superior

#27 tregar

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 10:02 PM

thanks hippie3, this is good to know...I think i'll try aya soon with the Hawaiian.

#28 yahutli

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Posted 11 December 2006 - 08:09 PM

Thanks hip.

They just take time...

#29 yahutli

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Posted 11 December 2006 - 08:19 PM

The problem may be with the small but profoundly significant morphological differences between Psychotria species that make positive identification difficult for untrained harvesters or purveyors of such goods...be they honest or otherwise.

It may be that much of what is passed for P. viridis is actually P. carthagenensis or P. alba, on which the question of activity remains in limbo.

A botany lesson is in order, I believe, for people like us to acquire what we seek. Or at least to know what we don't want. Keeps this sort of anguish to a minimum IMHO.

It may be that the Hawaiian growers actually have the real deal, which wouldn't be surprising given that it was the homebase of McKenna...

#30 yahutli

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Posted 11 December 2006 - 08:26 PM

That's P. carthagenensis in the background. Note the difference in venation..

#31 tregar

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Posted 24 December 2006 - 10:29 AM

200 grams of hawaiian psychotria was extracted using muriatic hcl adjusted water to ph=3 in a large ceramic crockpot over 3 days. Each day, 2 liters of boiling hot water from the stove was added to the 200 grams of plant matter in the crock pot and stirred. It was left to simmer with the lid on for 1 day...the next day the water was poured off and filtered. Each day, 2 liters of new distilled water was added (no need to re-acidify as the plant matter with left-over hcl kept the newly added water at a ph of around 3.5) to the crockpot...After 3 days, the 6 liters of water that was collected was then filtered thru a funnel with cotton balls attached to a buchner filter flask using the canister hose from a deluxe foodsaver to generate the very strong vacuum at the push of a button. The 6 liters was easily filtered hot (warmed it up on the stove 1st) then it was left to sit in a few 1/2 gallon jars in the fridge for 7 days. After 7 days, a small layer of additional sediment collected at the bottom of the jars...this was left behind and the water only was poured off into 2 corning ware pots and simmered down to a few hundred milliliters. The remaining water was then evaporated down in a pyrex dish with a fan blowing over it to yield 50 grams of a hard waxy red/brown extract (free of any purge-causing sediment). The extract was scrapped up with a safety razor blade handle. 10 grams of this extract (equal to 40 grams whole leaf) was analyzed in a 500ml genie bottle. This only took about an hour's time.

The rest of the crude extract will be used orally for ayahuasca journeys by re-constituting portions of it in a cup of very hot water to drink down with the caapi or harmine hcl. The rest of the extract (40 grams) was rolled into 40 1-gram aya balls between the hands and stored in a jar in a freezer for later use orally. These balls look like chocolate-covered raisins. Aya brews/extracts have been known to keep for years, being just as potent years later as the day it was put into the freezer.

After evaporating down the naptha to 1/10th it's original volume and putting it back in the freezer for 1 day, there appears to be a large quantity of white crystals sticking to the bottom of a wide 1/2 pint jar...will scrape up, weight, and wash in 2 more days.

Whereas the small pale light green peruvian PV yielded no xtals, just 10 grams of this crude hawaiian PV extract (equal to about 40 grams of whole leaf) is yielding a significant amount of crystals that have collected and grown in size at the bottom of the jar in just 1 day.

This is good news in that the oral crude extract should be quite active for journeying with caapi brew or 180mg of crystalline harmine hcl maoi. Knowing the amount of spice contained per gram of leaf will make it easier to gauge the proper amount of crude red/brown extract to use per session (want re-constituted water tea to contain about 25 to 45 mg of xtal). PV is the preferred oral aya companion plant being 100% dmt with no other mystery compounds such as extra beta-carbolines or yuremamine? (dark, scary red alkaloid).

A crockpot works great -- easier, cleaner and more relaxing than using the stove. Thanks hippie!

No more dud ayahuasca brews it you perform a simple, quick micro analysis of some your plant material. Thanks mars!

Add another ayahuasca participant to the list phalanx...will give vision reports in the future.

Video example of aya visuals as linked by ~leprechaun:

http://www.esteelaud.../bp_tvspot.tmpl

Aya isn't just about visuals, Shanon states "An effect that borders between the sensory and the interpretative is that of beautification. With Ayahuasca, music sounds immensely beautiful. One's perception of minute aspects of the music is heightened and it often sounds--literally--heavenly."


Edited by Sidestreet, 06 September 2015 - 08:03 PM.

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#32 tregar

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Posted 25 December 2006 - 10:55 AM

40 whole grams of hawaiian psychotria viridis (10 grams crude brown/red extract) has yielded 40 to 50 solid milligrams of snow-white crystalline white powder crystals via a micro-extraction. (scale only accurate to within 10mg).

Big improvement over the inactive small light-green pale peruvian psychotria.

The rest of the crude extract ayahuasca balls (look like large chocolate covered raisins) will be re-constituted into hot water for multiple doses of sediment/purge free ayahuasca for use with harmine hcl 180 to 190mg or a caapi brew.

Typical ayahuasca brew prepared by the UDV contains 29 to 43 mg dmt.

#33 condo_pygmy

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Posted 25 December 2006 - 11:05 AM

To get white Xtals from psychotria viridis, were the leaves defatted... :eusa_thin
`
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MERRY CHRISTMAS to all... :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance:

#34 tregar

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Posted 25 December 2006 - 11:11 AM

It's possible the 10 grams leaf extract may have yielded closer to 50 to 60 mg spice total, cause I have a second jar in the freezer with the 3rd pull, and it has an unknown quantity of crystals forming in it also.

Yes, the 10 grams of leaf extract was defatted 3 times with xylene.

It is possible that since I used the muriatic hcl extraction of ph=3 that it left behind most of the oils, waxes, and fats behind in the plant matter. I also did a one-time vacuum filter with funnel and cotton balls of the hot water, and a 7-day decant in the fridge--leaving behind all traces of sediment. Meteor used to post that thru his research he learned that muriatic hcl extraction leaves behind most of the oils/fats/waxes.

I will do this again in the future with 10 grams of more crude extract, but will not do a defat and see if I get white snow flake crystals or not...give me a few days, then will let you know if it makes a difference...only one way to find out...actually do it...I have 40 more grams of crude extract left, and will use another 10 grams of it (without a defat) to see how the crystals turn out.

The 10 grams of crude/brown extract was re-acidified in 200ml of very hot hcl water to ph=3.5, then defatted 3 times with xylene. The whole micro-extraction analysis took place in a small genie bottle with a long neck found at a discount store in less than an hour (then the naptha pull was evaporated down to 1/10th and frozen for 3 days). Many crystals were found forming and growing after 1 day.

I'm evaporating down the xylene defat to see what's in it--there appears to be some sort of clear oil trapped between some brownish colored foamy air/oil residue soap emulsion of some sort...so yes it appears the xylene pulled out a bunch of oil and waxes

....makes me wonder if it's not some of these oils in the extract or plant that help to orally activate the dmt hcl form in the digestive process/gall bladder/bial, etc...and what other plant materials are contained in the extract besides dmt/oils, etc...why are experiences with ayahuasca plant matter different than taking the freebase dmt orally?

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!

#35 tregar

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Posted 26 December 2006 - 02:23 AM

I had two really large crystals formed in the jar from the 3rd pull, along with many smaller ones.

Combined total snow-flake white powder crystals recovered from 40 grams of whole hawaiian PV leaf (10 grams crude red/brown extract) was 70 milligrams!

So it breaks down like this:

10 grams whole leaf (2.5 grams extract) = 17.5 milligrams spice
20 grams whole leaf (5 grams extract) = 35 milligrams spice
30 grams whole leaf (7.5 grams extract) = 52.5 milligrams spice
40 grams whole leaf (10 grams extract) = 70 milligrams spice

Only plan to use the crude extract orally with caapi or harmine hcl.

#36 tregar

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Posted 26 December 2006 - 02:38 PM

1st picture shows 4 potent dried hawaiian PV leafs on top, and 4 of the smaller inactive peruvian PV leafs on the bottom.

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#37 tregar

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Posted 26 December 2006 - 02:41 PM

Picture of 40 of the 1-gram aya balls left over after analyzing 10 of them (10 grams).

10 grams of crude extract balls (equal to 40 grams whole dried leaf) yielded 70 milligrams of snow-white xtals.

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#38 tregar

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Posted 26 December 2006 - 02:44 PM

Picture of the ceramic crockpot (never use metal or aluminum with muriatic-acidified water) and 2-liter (1/2 gallon jars) needed for holding the large amounts of liquid for vacuum filtering and decanting 7 days in the fridge to eliminate all traces of sediment. 6 liters of water total was held in several of these jars after making a 2-liter pull each day of the hot water over 3 days of simmering....2 liter pull each day x 3 days = 6 liters water total for filtering while hot and decanting cold for 7 days in the fridge. Two 2.5 liter corningware pots for simmering down liquid to a few hundred milliliters on the stove not shown. Resulting liquid was then evaporated down in a pyrex dish with fan to yield the crude extract that is scraped up when fully dried. Crude extract yields multiple doses for re-constitution in a cup of very hot water (5 grams of extract for example equal to 20 grams whole leaf brew) along with the caapi brew, harmine hcl, peganum extraction, maoi of choice, etc.

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#39 tregar

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Posted 26 December 2006 - 07:30 PM

Discount store genie bottle vase and 6" long pipette for the micro-extraction/analysis of
10 grams aya extract.

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