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Unidentified problem with my outdoors ladies (Guanokalong nutes)


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#1 SillyCone

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Posted 28 June 2020 - 10:19 PM

Hello friends !

 

Long time no see...

 

After 5 years without growing, I had enough of buying my weed at the club, prices going up like crazy.

So I decided to give it another go, but this time, outdoors !

It's my first outdoor for at least 14 years, as now I'm living in the perfect climate, a few kms away from the spanish border.

I've been growing hydroponically with coco coir for the last 20+ years, so for a change, I decided to go full organic with the Guanokalong full range of nutrients (https://guanokalong....oducts/?lang=en) :

- Guano Powder, (entire grow)

- Veg Pearls, (for veg)

- Seaweed Powder, (entire grow)

- Palm Tree Ashes (for bloom)

- Kalong Grow (liquid, for veg)

- Bat Boost (liquid, entire grow)

- Bat Bloom (liquid, for bloom)

The powders, I mix with a Pro Mix (which is a classic light mix with 25% coir added).

I have 15 fem plants from seeds (5x Acapulco Gold, 2x G13 Haze, 3x Amnesia Lemon, 3x Dos Si Dos 33 and 2x Sour Diesel), which germinated on the 2nd of June and were grown under TLs in 1L pots for 2 weeks.

Then they were introduced to the sun, and a few days later (a week and a half ago), I repotted the 10 most beautiful ones to 7L plastic pots, all with the same substrate/nutrient mix.

 

4 days later, the first dots appeared on the biggest Sour Diesel (Zamnesia) :

 

SDside1.jpg

SDside2.jpg

SDtop1.jpg

SDfan1.jpg

 

The next day, on the biggest Acapulco Gold (Barney's Farm) :

AGside1.jpg

AGfan1.jpg

 

And yesterday, it started on the second biggest Dos Si Dos 33 ((Barney's Farm)) :

DSD33side.jpg

 

It starts on the lower sun leaves then progresses upwards. When all the sun leaves are touched, the sun leaves on the branches start to show the same symptoms.

As a hydro grower, I never had these symptoms. 

Prior to showing the symptoms, the plants are in perfect health, no overdose, no deficiencies, no pests.

What I don't understand is that all plants are growing in the same substrate with the same nutes, and received approximately the same amount of water.

Suspecting a calcium deficiency, I gave them some CalMag 3 days ago, but to this day, no apparent changes.

 

Any idea ?


Edited by SillyCone, 28 June 2020 - 10:24 PM.


#2 SillyCone

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Posted 29 June 2020 - 12:03 PM

Here's an overview of the girls :

 

overviewfront.jpg

 

overviewback.jpg

 

This week I should receive the whole range of nutes in 5L/kg so that I can repot them all in their final home, Root Pouch grow bags. 5 of them in 95L/25gal pots and 5 of them in 56L/15gal pots... 

So I have a few days to figure out what's happening.

Help, bros and sistas  :tinfoil:



#3 PJammer24

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Posted 29 June 2020 - 12:17 PM

I'm a little surprised you went with a soiless mix outdoors... Typically, I would use a water only mix or a mix that I only supplement near the end of the flowering cylce for outdoor grows since I don't have the space constraints for pot size that you have when growing indoors... Organic water only mixes, when container size is adequate, produces the highest quality flower in my opinion.

 

It makes sense that you would lean toward this approach since you have extensive experience with hydroponic grows where you have to provide the nutrients but you should look into water only organic mixes in the future since you can go big on container size outdoors... It all started for me with subcool's mix... It produced great results despite my having used containers that were on the small size with my first attempt... I have never considered another approach since, though my mix has been adapted slightly over the years... Most recently, I included soil from a drained pond that was super rich... The pond had been filled with tiny pan fish, you would catch one on every cast... Not only were they defecating in that pond for years, when it was drained they died and decomposed... Needless to say, adding it to the bottom of my hole and cutting it into the soil mix on a smaller scale throughout resulted in excellent results!



#4 SillyCone

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Posted 29 June 2020 - 12:39 PM

It's not a soiless mix ??? 

It's a mix I got from my LGS with a little coir added for the structure...

And all the nutes are organics and mixed in at transplant, so I mostly use plain water (the liquid boosts are mostly melasses and other supplements.)

 

But you point to something interesting, all my issues appear only on plants which have been transplanted with this mix, the others are in a classic CANNA light mix... Hmm, I might swap all 13 bags of Pro Mix with the CANNA one...

 

Other than that, I really don't see where could that problem come from...



#5 PJammer24

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Posted 29 June 2020 - 02:26 PM

promix is considered soiless... coir is continued soiless also... promix contains very few nutrients on its own and is comprised mainly of peat with some other additives...

 

  • Canadian sphagnum peat moss
  • Peat humus
  • *Coir / coconut fibre (*Canada only)
  • **Polymer Gel (**USA only)
  • Perlite
  • Limestone
  • Controlled release fertilizer
  • Mycorrhizae - PTB297 Technology

from a simple search of "pro-mix soilless" on google:

 

"Is Pro Mix soilless?

With the increased popularity of indoor gardening, the term hydroponics has been associated with peat-based soilless growing media like PRO-MIX. ... "Lettuce started in soilless growing medium and then planted into hydroponic system."

 

 

You have to provide nutrients when watering with soilless substrates like coir, peat, etc... pro-mix included... A soil based substrate will have many, if not all, of the nutrients needed within the mix... You could potentially use the pro-mix as a base while mixing other organic nutrient sources in to give your self a soil type substrate but promix alone would be considered to be soilless. It blew my mind years ago when I was informed off this also...

 

edit: Looking at the ingredient list, there are some added nutrients but that doesn't change the fact that there is nothing in the mix that would constitute as soil.. It is a growing medium, it is a substrate, but it is not soil...


Edited by PJammer24, 29 June 2020 - 02:27 PM.


#6 SillyCone

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Posted 29 June 2020 - 07:53 PM

promix is considered soiless... coir is continued soiless also... promix contains very few nutrients on its own and is comprised mainly of peat with some other additives...
 
"Is Pro Mix soilless?
With the increased popularity of indoor gardening, the term hydroponics has been associated with peat-based soilless growing media like PRO-MIX. ... "Lettuce started in soilless growing medium and then planted into hydroponic system."
 
edit: Looking at the ingredient list, there are some added nutrients but that doesn't change the fact that there is nothing in the mix that would constitute as soil.. It is a growing medium, it is a substrate, but it is not soil...

Ok, then, I agree with that.
But then none of the "mixes" sold in the growshops (at least here in Europe) are really soils.

 

You have to provide nutrients when watering with soilless substrates like coir, peat, etc... pro-mix included... A soil based substrate will have many, if not all, of the nutrients needed within the mix... You could potentially use the pro-mix as a base while mixing other organic nutrient sources in to give your self a soil type substrate but promix alone would be considered to be soilless. It blew my mind years ago when I was informed off this also...

 

Which is exactly what I did with the whole range of Guanokalon nutrients, in the form of powder mixed with the substrate before transplanting.

There should be everything a plant needs in there : N,P,K, micros, carbohydrates to feed the mycorrhizaes, humic and fulvic acids, etc. I'll also add some worm castings in there in the final transplant.

They are in perfect shape until this happens.

I've never seen this symptom, and in order to solve it, I need to know what it is...

I don't see how it could be a nutrient deficiency, more like a lockup ?

I'll adjust my water's pH, though the plants seemed to like it like it is up to now so I doubt it'll have a great effect.

Has anyone ever seen this ?


Edited by SillyCone, 29 June 2020 - 08:01 PM.





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