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Indoor ovoids and freezers


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#21 wharfrat

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Posted 20 September 2020 - 08:40 PM

Trying again to colonize from wild sourced mycelium. Has anyone tried commercially available Ovoid spores to agar or straight to grain jars? I was thinking this might be a better way to start

welcome to topia.. great topic, i am moving this thread into the magic mushroom forum


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#22 Celestialexplorer1

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Posted 20 September 2020 - 08:55 PM

That’s what that bag there is. I’ve been putting it in a mini fridge at night and mini mono by day. The myc is still moving.
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#23 Arathu

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Posted 30 September 2020 - 04:23 PM

Freezer definitely kills em on agar........

 

A



#24 DickMoby

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Posted 15 October 2020 - 05:53 PM

Iˋve screenshotted a succesfull grow from a guy called Ovoideocystidiataman, gotta look for it on my phone tomorrow and will post them here, that should solve the mystery.

Got some spores of ovoid here but too many projects atm, looking forward to see how it goes for you guys



#25 Celestialexplorer1

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Posted 15 October 2020 - 08:00 PM

64D81C13-5B31-41AD-8B2D-5991E73D2884.jpeg this is a 7lb bag of ovoid wood chip spawn and I know I’m going to be putting together a bed outside soon but also thinking about doing a small indoor attempt here soon when things slow down with other projects.
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#26 Arathu

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Posted 16 October 2020 - 04:33 AM

Hell yeah try to get both done before the hard freeze sets in.....can't wait to see some fruits from both.....

 

Good work man!

 

A



#27 DickMoby

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Posted 16 October 2020 - 07:05 AM

I tried to edit the pictures together, its not completely even but here they are.

 

there were more pictures of the mature fruits but I didnˋt screenshot those and Iˋm no longer on this

 

platform.

 

PSX_20201016_135349.jpg

 

PSX_20201016_135448.jpg



#28 Celestialexplorer1

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Posted 16 October 2020 - 07:35 AM

Is that a complete indoor grow? If so how did you go about initiating pinning?

#29 DickMoby

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Posted 16 October 2020 - 07:54 AM

Thats not my grow, I mentioned on the message before that one that its from a guy called Ovoideocystidiataman, just to clarify, Iˋm not posting other peoples stuff and say those are mine.

 

He told me that they pinned indoor but he put them outdoor in a tub afterwards, guess he was afraid to mess it up and thats why he put them outside.

Tho they pinned indoor.

All the info I have is in those pictures, except a couple comments from him earlier.

 

I screenshotted it to have it saved for when Iˋm ready to give them a try



#30 DickMoby

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Posted 17 October 2020 - 04:45 AM

Here something I found on another platform

 

https://www.research...d_Prakitsin_Sih

 

It's a downloadable paper that says an overnight freeze is enough



#31 smellitstinknot

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Posted 17 October 2020 - 06:21 AM

Plenty of people have tried the freeze method for Ovoids including myself. They do on occasion fruit after a freeze but it isn't consistent enough to be considered a trigger . I believe freezing conditions are just incidental and something they can survive in nature as is the case for other temperate species. The most successful indoor grows of any of the wood lovers appears from those who are able to keep the temps in the 55-65f range. This increases metabolism in wood lovers leading to earlier fruiting. For species which can take 6 weeks to fruit at the best of times this is all the more important. Cold shocks down to 45f etc just slow metabolism and delay pinning. Yes freezing temps occur in nature but that doesn't mean they're a trigger.

 

In Australia we're lucky enough to be able to hunt wood loving mushrooms (P.subaeruginosa) at various altitudes. The interesting thing is that even when rainfall is evenly distributed between high/low altitude (1500m ASL - sea level)  it depends on respective temps as to which areas fruit first. In seasons where the hills see a rapid drop in the 40's which many hunters rave about as a trigger to kick off the season it's actually the warmer coastal areas which fruit several weeks earlier provided temps average below 70f.

 

As for achieving a temp range of 55-65 it's actually tougher to do this with unmodified fridges since the thermostat falls outside this range. If you live in an area where night temps drop below 70f a good balance is to run the fridge on a timer. Have it on during the day and with the door slightly cracked just enough to achieve the desired temp range. This also allows ample FAE. Of course FAE inside a fridge means condensation and iced up coils. Having the fridge shut off at night for 8-12 hours should allow for an adequate defrost. Introduce your mycelium to the fridge once substrate is fully colonized including the casing layer + at least a week or two of consolidation.

 

If you can hold temps steady for 4 weeks you will typically see fruits. I've never managed to fruit a sterile grow and am of the opinion certain microbes may play a role in fruiting. Having said that there is literature to suggest some of the caramel capped wood lovers may fruit in sterile conditions. Primordia on agar has also been observed. Any quality untreated potting soil should serve the purpose of an active casing layer. There's also evidence to suggest mushroom mycelium is able to modify the grow media in order to culture organisms beneficial for fruiting. Light cycle appears to be of least importance with wood loving species and anything in the 6500k-7000k range on a 12/12 cycle will suffice.

To further reduce fruiting time certain substrates appear to be more favorable. As one example it appears straw seems to cut down fruiting times significantly over woodchips.


Edited by smellitstinknot, 17 October 2020 - 07:14 AM.


#32 DickMoby

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Posted 17 October 2020 - 07:26 AM

Some strains of Ovoideo fruit every year after being frozen for some time.

Did you check the linked paper and the picture that I posted from Ovoideocystidiatamann ?

 

"The most successful indoor grows of any of the wood lovers appears from those who are able to keep the temps in the 55-65f range"

 

The grows from Ovoideocystidiatamann and the one from this paper are very successful grows, theres no need to downplay that.

Who at an home environment has a second fridge that is temp controlled in this temp area or wants to do complicated things with one over the course of 1-2 weeks to keep a normal fridge at a specific temp range, until it fruited?

 

people have shown that the freeze does work while other methods failed, why argue against the at this moment only working known method ?

 

The failed grows might have had other issues like a lack of fae or hidden contam or something else.

 

I've shared successful grows of other people with all the neccessary information and all I get is stuff to make that info bad.

Those people have had success while you didn't fruit them successful so it's really unecessary to argue against that.

 

Another thing is, the fruiting conditions of wood lovers can't be generalized, Azur/Cyan are different species with different needs, what works for ovoideo might not automatically work for other wood lovers aswell.

Another wood lover is Gym luteo that fruits at room temp without any temp drops.

Hericium and other edible species the same.

 

I know you won't like me after reading this but sometimes things have to be said



#33 Celestialexplorer1

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Posted 17 October 2020 - 01:29 PM

Broke down my 7lb ovoid bag and my 4lb cyanescens bag into tubs. My subseco bag and subaeruginosa bag is almost done and I have some aztecorum spawn almost done as well. Serbica bag is moving ever so slowly but surely
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#34 Arathu

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Posted 17 October 2020 - 01:40 PM

Broke down my 7lb ovoid bag and my 4lb cyanescens bag into tubs. My subseco bag and subaeruginosa bag is almost done and I have some aztecorum spawn almost done as well. Serbica bag is moving ever so slowly but surely

Nothing but good vibes........

 

A



#35 smellitstinknot

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Posted 18 October 2020 - 02:32 AM

@DickMoby

Seems you've seen my opinions and see them as some kind of attack on the information you've provided. I never said people haven't seen fruits after freezing and thawing substrates just that it isn't a readily repeatable method for success. That's obvious else there'd be many successful grows logged by now.

Who at an home environment has a second fridge that is temp controlled in this temp area or wants to do complicated things with one over the course of 1-2 weeks to keep a normal fridge at a specific temp range, until it fruited?


Everyone who wants to cultivate temperate wood loving species indoors in controlled conditions that's who..
It really isn't at all complicated to crack a fridge door and set a defrost timer. If you think that's complicated a poor mans pod fruiting chamber must seem like rocket surgery to you.

I've shared successful grows of other people with all the neccessary information and all I get is stuff to make that info bad.


That info is still there for others to read. I've learned from these grows and formed theories for my own attempts so don't think I don't value the work others have put in to attempt to cultivate the species. How is bringing differing ideas and experiences to the table making that info bad?

There are commonalities among different species such as full colonization as a major pinning trigger. Another commonality is that metabolism is slowed at lower temps. That means slower colonization and if your substrate isn't fully consolidated a delay in pinning until it is. My point is that an approach of colder is better to initiate pinning is taken with the caramel capped wood lovers and this approach in my experience has lead to failure more often than success. Believe it or not there was even a time when cold shocking P.cubensis was a thing.

people have shown that the freeze does work while other methods failed, why argue against the at this moment only working known method ?


It's not a readily repeatable method. The species fruits not only in the spring but also in the fall without requiring a freeze. Take a look at some outdoor grows in the PNW thread over on the other site if you doubt me. It stands to good reason that if they will fruit in the absence of a hard frost outdoors it certainly isn't a primary trigger.

The failed grows might have had other issues like a lack of fae or hidden contam or something else.

The failed grows had issues we haven't yet been able to address. FAE certainly isn't the problem else we'd have had Ovoid cultivation down to a fine art a decade ago. I believe a microbial element may be responsible. Also genetics play a role.Time could be another factor since even outdoor beds don't always fruit first season.

Another thing is, the fruiting conditions of wood lovers can't be generalized, Azur/Cyan are different species with different needs, what works for ovoideo might not automatically work for other wood lovers aswell.


I never generalized fruiting conditions of all wood loving species. I've grown many species including Gyms and am well versed in their differing growth requirements. Azurescens,cyanescens,allenii and subaeruginosa share the same fruiting parameters where conditions are concerned. P.ovoids are a more distinctive species but they will fruit in the same temperature range as the former and have proven to take a long time to consolidate. I have cultivated them here in Australia successfully outdoors and they will fruit in winter (equivalent conditions of fall in PNW) at the same time our caramel capped wood lovers do.

Edited by smellitstinknot, 18 October 2020 - 02:33 AM.


#36 DickMoby

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Posted 18 October 2020 - 07:06 AM

That's a tough one, my laptop died a few days ago and I'm doing everything on the tablet.
Quoting does only work for full messages, not parts.
I'll probably not reply to every single point but try to cover most of it.

First thing I want to say is,
I'm glad we're having a talk about this.
From other platforms I'm used to people starting nasty fights over everything or just ignoring things when they get interesting.
Even here many people ignore my comments.

I'm not offended because you don't appreciate info that I posted, I'm lets say dissapointed because those grows of other people are successful and all I see is arguments to downplay those successes.
An addition to that is that I noticed you edited your comment while I was typing mine, now it's quite a bit longer than before and I only did read the shorter version until now.

"They do on occasion fruit after a freeze but it isn't consistent enough to be considered a trigger"
In my mind a lowered temperature that starts the fruiting - while if kept on room temp it doesn't fruit - is a fruiting trigger because without that temp drop they don't fruit. - A freeze is a temp drop

At this point I'm not saying a freeze is the only way to get them to fruit, a freeze over night to be able to fruit them at room temp just seems to be the much less complicated, time consuming and more efficient option compared to up to a month in a "modified" fridge.
The time until they pinned was way shorter after the freezing period.

Without wanting to fight with you dude but the following is kind of a generalization.

"The most successful indoor grows of any of the wood lovers appears from those who are able to keep the temps in the 55-65f range. This increases metabolism in wood lovers leading to earlier fruiting. For species which can take 6 weeks to fruit at the best of times this is all the more important. Cold shocks down to 45f etc just slow metabolism and delay pinning"

We know that what for some wood lovers works, works for them, not (automatically) for others aswell.
Nature finds there way, it's possible that Ovoid mycelium, due to the different fruiting climates adapted to the environment and has the survival mechanism to fruit after a freeze to spread spores but naturally would "rather" fruit in a temp above freezing point.
After the freeze it even grows on room temp while it normally (from what I've read) wouldn't fruit at room temp from alone.

Ovoideocystidiatamann's grow was without a casing, due to that I think it's not necessary to apply a microbial active casing to inhibit fruiting.
From what I've read for me it seems to be important to keep that thing soaking wet the whole time while at the same time giving it alot of fresh air.

Of course different Ovoid substrains collected froom different areas of the world could also have different fruiting requirements but also maybe not, the whole topic is alot of speculation but I think in the posted grows there are hidden key details that are important that we just don't see at the moment.

No bad blood mate, I'm here to learn and share.

Because of the amount of bullshit info out there and those broken online bully trolls (not talking about this thread here) I sometimes choose a sharper wording on some topics to clarify that specific things are pure theory or just the opinion of some people and not more.

This might be the reason that people ignore my comments but I don't want to change in that perspective, should I rather parrot the same not proven stuff and sell it as facts to fit into a group of people and to win them as "friends"!?... - no answer to that question needed lol

Have a good one

#37 Arathu

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Posted 18 October 2020 - 07:56 AM

If they are allowed to grow a nice dense mycelial mat in fairly warm weather then given a "winter" (these never really froze deep but were cold for over a month)

 

post-113856-0-23557100-1518878731.jpg

 

And then moved into a "spring" of sorts, so 50-60F, with high humidity and plenty of air......

 

They absolutely will fruit indoors, from small cups, to shallow tray's and very likely tubs as well.....

 

Started by stem butts and colonized chips on cardboard in the tray....

 

An environmental control chamber would be a great tool albeit resource intensive and costly to maintain.....

 

IMHO it is better to leverage mother nature's changes (as in FREE) as opposed to forcing the conditions but it can certainly be done....

 

Above are Ovoids in a shallow tray growing on a mixed woody substrate with potting soil mixed in....cased with Naturscapes mulch....

 

A


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#38 Arathu

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Posted 18 October 2020 - 08:33 AM

Something else I look at is the range of a typical yearly cycle in the species native habitat.......

post-113856-0-90859000-1520382305.jpg

 

If I'm going to program a PLC or another type of digital controller to create a simulated environment then an annual data set (one year in Oregon where the azure grows for example, data and graphic from a website possibly NOAA, here it's for example not analysis) might be something to use as a baseline for the controls initially....once we understand what the species wants then you can fiddle around with changing it......

 

Again creating an environment that radically deviates from the current natural conditions can be/is a costly thing.....Still I've always wanted to score on an old beer&beverage store with a nice big walk in cooler....with floor drains.....and waterproof shelving units.......

 

I'd be selling sheepheads and oyster mushrooms fresh through a drive through........

 

A



#39 DickMoby

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Posted 19 October 2020 - 11:41 AM

Wanted to take some time to think about my answer.
I'll keep it short tho.

That's a nice grow!
If someone has the opportunity and the space to keep them in those conditions for the whole time and also has the patience to wait then that's a good way to do it.
It's the first I did read about them growing without a freeze.

Thinking as a cultivator who always wants to do things as efficient (time and recources) as possible, I'd want to figure out a constantly working freeze TEK to safe time and to be able to just put them in a chamber or maybe even a monotub after the freeze and fruit on room temp.

Nonetheless nice grow and good work!
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#40 Celestialexplorer1

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Posted 19 October 2020 - 10:59 PM

I’ve been trying to fruit a bowl of cyanescens wood chips cased for about 8 mo in one of those mini mini refrigerators that hold like 4 coke cans with the door cracked and a clamp lamp on it misting when needed sometimes making it rain sometimes letting it dry a bit more trying to find the sweet spot with no real luck yet. It’s finally season so I transferred the bowl outdoors to make room for other indoor woodlover projects. Have a bigger mini fridge I was thinking about trying out with a small tote at the bottom with disc foggers and air stones. Ended up filling the mini fridge with cultures, plates and LC jars so I’ll have to figure out what to do with that stuff first. I did see a temp controlled wine cooler at Walmart for 40$ that can go from 40-65f so I think I’m gonna just pick that up... even has racks and full ventilation already. Seems better than the mini fridge.

Edited by Celestialexplorer1, 19 October 2020 - 11:02 PM.

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