325 replies to this topic

[Juthro]

 The technologies are fairly new and not time tested.

 

Actually, the concept of PCP airguns have been around much  longer then the self contained brass cartridge.   Lewis and clark took a Girandoni air rifle on their cross country trip, and claimed it was one of their most valued possessions.   

 

They were also used by the Austrian army from about 1780 - 1815.   Their advantages are a high rate of fire, and no smoke or noise to give away the shooters position.  They are a pretty well proven design, and quite reliable.

[Myc]

@TVCasualty:

I am going out on a limb here but I've found that a person with your skills (and I've read a lot of your work here over the years so I think you're likely "one of Us") finds few insurmountable challenges when working with precision machinery.

It's a matter of having the proper tools - small screwdrivers, brass/ wood/ plastic mallets for procedures requiring light percussion, various punches for various types of pin removal, and dental probes of varying shapes for seal removal, spring tension, etc.

You'll need some varying grades of grease - many of which are used in bicycle repair stations (where I learned most of this precision setup work). Many threaded connections require light lubrication to prevent loosening over time. And you have to know that grease and lubricants are not always your friend - they have their place and application - not to be used on all surfaces and connection points wholesale. Lubricant's can both lubricate and attract/ trap debris - which can ultimately be a very bad thing.

 

I'm sure I'll build a proper bench as time goes on but necessity is the mother of invention and I've come up with some clever  work-arounds for difficult process.

 

That rifle sounds like a real super-cool challenge.

I got away from air rifles after I wore-out my first Daisy pump-action BB/pellet gun.

I had no idea that air rifles came in larger calibers. Lost of advantages over powder weapons given the shortageq of factory ammunition or reloading supplies caused by panic.

 

And I just finished sending an email to tech support at Hornady manufacturing.

Hopefully I'll have some advice soon and can continue the training session.

Edited by Myc, 09 July 2020 - 03:08 PM.

[Juthro]

The Benjamin Marauder is a modest priced, entry level PCP, but make no mistake they are the real deal.   For pest control, or for small game animals the .25 is a real good choice, IMO. 

 

Brand new they go for just under $500 that last time I looked.  Definitely a lot more money than your old Daisy Red Ryder.  But these can put squirrels, rabbits, and birds in your stew pot with no trouble at all if it came to that, and they are quiet enough that you could do so in an urban environment without attracting to much unwanted attention.  

 

[Direct Link]

 

[TVCasualty]

@TVCasualty:

I am going out on a limb here but I've found that a person with your skills (and I've read a lot of your work here over the years so I think you're likely "one of Us") finds few insurmountable challenges when working with precision machinery.

It's a matter of having the proper tools - small screwdrivers, brass/ wood/ plastic mallets for procedures requiring light percussion, various punches for various types of pin removal, and dental probes of varying shapes for seal removal, spring tension, etc.

You'll need some varying grades of grease - many of which are used in bicycle repair stations (where I learned most of this precision setup work). Many threaded connections require light lubrication to prevent loosening over time. And you have to know that grease and lubricants are not always your friend - they have their place and application - not to be used on all surfaces and connection points wholesale. Lubricant's can both lubricate and attract/ trap debris - which can ultimately be a very bad thing.

 

Thanks, and I wouldn't hesitate to dive in myself if I was set up for it, so what I guess I was trying to figure out is if it's worth my buying whatever specialized tools I'd need and spending the time learning what to do (and then doing it) or if it'd be more economical to let an experienced pro handle it since I probably won't need to use those tools again considering how long the original seals lasted.

[Myc]

I like the rewards which result from a job well done.

That being said it might just be worth a repair-man's time.

 

My personal approach has always been to own the tools. Often times the tool purchase can equal the value of the service man's time. Even if I don't use the tools that often I suppose I get some weird sense of comfort from owning them.

For example, this reloading station is actually pretty impractical for me to own. I would certainly never have purchased this machine. But now I feel some weird sense of obligation to get it back into service - even though I'm not really "in the market" for a bunch of ammo.

It's either this or I sit around bitching about masks and distancing. I prefer staying occupied - leaves less time for me to find something to gripe about.

[Juthro]

The seal kits for the marauders that I've had the pleasure of playing with are just a small bag with a bunch of O-rings.  I doubt it takes more than just simple hand tools to disassemble, and maybe a dental pick to to help work them out of their groves.   The fact that my nephew managed to do the job successfully makes me assume that anyone with basic mechanical skills can pull it off.  He's a good guy, my nephew, but he's no rocket mechanic, lol.

 

The seal kits were also quite reasonable, IMO, at less than $20 a kit.  At that price I would be tempted to get a couple, and keep a spare hanging on a hook, or sitting in a drawer somewhere.

Edited by Juthro, 10 July 2020 - 06:16 PM.

[Myc]

That's exactly my approach. Learn to perform procedure and procure extra parts.

 

I have a 2005 full-suspension bicycle. I also have a complete set of new frame-bearings so I can keep that bike alive for the duration of my life.

 

Dress those replacement o-rings with a thin coating of silicone grease and they'll last (virtually) forever. Put the grease on the ring and then wipe it off with a towel.All of the pores get sealed with silicone slowing oxidation of the o-ring - thereby extending life span. It also helps with seating of the o-ring (so they don't become wrinkled or distorted).

 

I was able to find my replacement parts for the reloading station online and made the order earlier today.

To Hornady's credit - they also called me this afternoon and provided a direct path to customer service along with a ticket number. Pretty good service given the circumstances.

I wrote them a polite email in reply to their phone call in relation to the service ticket number and thanked them for the phone call but I think once the parts arrive I'll be well on my way. 

[makinbones69]

Hornady is a helpful company man. I get all my target ammo and usually what I zero with from them. They offer fair prices and competitive powder in my experience with them.
Nice man I hope you keep getting into it. When I'm ready to load up my own rounds I'll know who to talk to.

What I mean to say is if Hornady were a hash company. It would be fair and not disappointing. So I'm a fan.

Edited by makinbones69, 10 July 2020 - 09:11 PM.

[Juthro]

I also have always had a good opinion of Hornady,  and their products.   I'm glad they are treating you well, Myc, and I'm excited for you, and your new hobby.   

 

Skills, and knowledge are some of the few things that can never be taken from you in this world. 

[Juthro]

So I guess I'm kind of off on my own tangent, and I hope Myc  forgives me  , but I thought airbows were also worth mentioning.

 

Think 450 fps with a 100 grain broadhead, and delivered through a carbine sized weapon.   These things can give 2" groups at 50 yards, and do so almost silently.  You definitely move out of the range of small game, and into the range of large.

 

Use your choice of search engine, and look up Benjamin Pioneer, and you will see what I'm talking about.

Edited by Juthro, 11 July 2020 - 12:44 AM.

[Myc]

No worries on keeping to the topic. It's mostly about not being bored to death and having some fun, new intricate stuff to study.

 

Interesting that you bring up an air bow.

Some friends and I have been dabbling in archery. My left arm has a beautiful yellow-green bruise running along the wrist. Lack of talent plus lack of safety equipment -- resulting in injury. Lucky for me it was ugly and painful but not permanently damaging.

We've also been throwing -- throwing knives. They look like fun but get boring pretty quickly.

 

Well I've managed to find another good company to work with for reloading supplies.

Midway USA was the company from which I had ordered the parts and I received a shipping notification saying that the order was packed and on its way!!!  Looks like my stuff will be here next week so I can keep going with this project.

Hah - just as a hoot I looked up that Benjamin Pioneer on Midway's site. They have it in stock.

Edited by Myc, 11 July 2020 - 10:49 AM.

[Juthro]

 

Hah - just as a hoot I looked up that Benjamin Pioneer on Midway's site. They have it in stock.

 

 

So, what did you think?  I think they are badass.  450fps is more powerful than almost all hunting crossbows on the market, and it allows you a fairly quick follow up shot if needed.   I wish they were  a little cheaper, but I still want one :)

[Myc]

If you visit their product listing on MidwayUSA - scroll down to the bottom of the page.

There is a vimeo video of a guy taking down a buffalo with the Benjamin Pioneer. I must admit that I didn't watch it past the second shot - I have a hard time watching things die unless I'm about to eat it. So I won't link or embed the video here.

You could definitely put meat on the table with that tool.

 

I was impressed with the high power and low-noise.

What's really ironic is that my dad was talking about owning a crossbow. I will be showing him the air bow for sure.

[makinbones69]

Imagine if the guy had missed and made the animal lame. If he had real balls he'd try that with a moose.... And buy a real gun
I could see them being neat but not very practical that's just me tho.

Edited by makinbones69, 14 July 2020 - 06:46 PM.

[Juthro]

I see your point Makinbones, and I'm admittedly not much of a bowhunter, but  I've seen some pretty big bull moose that were taken with a compound bow, and I think that airbow is quite a bit more powerful then any compound bow I've ever seen, and much easier to effectively use without a lot of practice. 

 

With that said, I'm still more of a rifle guy at heart, though I do like the idea of being able to go silent.

[makinbones69]

I see your point as well honestly. It's just as powerful and kind of the same as taking it with a bow which I don't disagree with.
I will say tho I'm no pro hunter but that is the reason that I won't hunt with a bow or crossbow now. I plan to in the future but am not there yet. For a person who has more skill than myself I'd say it's the same as a bow if not better and agree with you.

[pharmer]

If you visit their product listing on MidwayUSA - scroll down to the bottom of the page.

There is a vimeo video of a guy taking down a buffalo with the Benjamin Pioneer. I must admit that I didn't watch it past the second shot - I have a hard time watching things die unless I'm about to eat it. So I won't link or embed the video here.

You could definitely put meat on the table with that tool.

 

I was impressed with the high power and low-noise.

What's really ironic is that my dad was talking about owning a crossbow. I will be showing him the air bow for sure.

I have a hypothesis about wildlife not knowing they've been shot. I've seen it where they've been hit with an arrow and flinch a bit, run ten steps, look around for what just made that noise, and go back to eating right up until they get feint and pass out.

 

The hypothesis - just like us they sometimes get slapped with a stick while walking through the brush, often enough that they dismiss it if there is no accompanying noise like that of a gun or bowstring snapping. So once in a while you'll see them skitter a short distance after being arrowed but are obviously oblivious to any further pain after the arrow has passed through them. And the arrow is through them so quickly that "pain" might be the wrong description of the sensation they feel. (Assuming no bone gets broken)

 

This same principle should apply to a silent pellet.

Edited by pharmer, 15 July 2020 - 11:33 AM.

[makinbones69]

Dirty is dirty bow or bullet I agree. But I feel confident they know they've been hit fatally after the adrenaline wears down.

Edited by makinbones69, 15 July 2020 - 12:02 PM.

[TVCasualty]

After looking at ballistics studies, I'd definitely rather be shot with a 30.06 than by a hunting arrow. If I was forced to choose one or the other, that is. In that respect it's sort of like the upcoming election.

 

And if what we're hunting knows it got shot, or gets an adrenaline rush and runs away, it means we missed.

 

In that respect a rifle is more reliable since it allows much more precision targeting at a much greater range than anything that shoots arrows. But if you have the skill to get close enough and can hit what you aim at then archery is the way to go IMO.

 

In a full-survival, post-apocalypse situation traps and snares are the way to go. That goes for deer, too though a deer snare is designed to act as a leash to hold the deer in place (you finish the job with an arrow or bullet) vs. traditional snares that are designed to snap an animal's neck. Survival is a function of conservation of energy, and trapping is far more efficient in that respect than hunting. Primitive trapping can be practiced without actually doing it, and I would not engage in trapping outside of a dire survival situation.

 

Most traps (if not all trapping), and especially things like deer snares are highly illegal in any context other than literal survival, and when done wrong can be brutal, cruel, and nasty. But when one is truly starving then those become secondary concerns to a degree that's hard to appreciate unless one has experienced genuine starvation, which if severe enough can even result in people engaging in cannibalism. That is almost impossible to imagine from this distance (meaning while having a stocked fridge and pantry), but attitudes change after experiences like crashing a plane in the Andes or getting stuck in a blizzard near a famous mountain pass.

[makinbones69]

Exactly lol.