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Considering Introducing to Younger Sis..


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#1 RainbowCatepillar

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 03:30 PM

Hello Myco Family! Hope everyone is doing relatively well considering how crazy things are. Sending love to you all..

I want to hear your thoughts and opinions on this: so my younger sister is 15, turns 16 in December. She has been struggling with depression and body image dysmorphia for a long time. It's gotten to the point where she says she wants to get on antidepressants because she's "desperate to feel something different" other than her usual despair..

So I got the bright idea that when I grow some shrooms, I may introduce her to microdosing. Of course I have reservations considering her age and likely stage of brain development, but I figure since she'd be taking antidepressants which aren't guaranteed to work or be without side effects, the Big Pharma route isn't any more promising..

What do you guys think? Would it be irresponsible of me to take such a risk? I know the shrooms won't cure her, but perhaps quieting down her brains Default Mode Network will show her that another way of being is possible..

Thank you for taking the time to read this. Any opinions are helpful..
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#2 Skywatcher

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 04:58 PM

I really can't comment on the choice of introducing micro dosing to your sister. You need to make that call. Would it have a positive effect ? I have never done micro dosing and only know what I have read about it here and in links people have posted.

 

What I do know about is how once someone with a fragile state, dealing with depression, gets on the pharmacological merry go round, the potential for disaster is amplified as well as the potential for improvement. There is often a change of doctors after someone gets started, who usually want to start over with their own particular blend of medications, and no where near enough monitoring during the treatment or switch.

 

This can cause a complete panic and withdrawal from something that was having some effect, while waiting for a new med's to build up to an effective level. In younger people you can add in a whole new level of unpredictability and side effects.

 

My sister was on that mis-managed merry go round for depression and bi-polar swings. She did not survive it.

 

I personally doubt that microdosing could be as harmful or potentially destabilizing as mis-managed pharmacology.


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#3 Myc

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 05:13 PM

Micro-dosing may have a positive effect. Certainly no less anecdotal than using anti-depressants. But I'm not a doctor.

 

Mega-dosing - which was my chosen approach - is not so recommended. It works but you really have to hang on and be able to process no matter how good or bad things get.

Life is just a series of chores. Without doing the work first - the results are never achieved.

One good mega-dose can make a person painfully aware of their (deliberately chosen) shortcomings. For some folks - outside of a therapeutic setting - this can be too much to handle. Our ignorance and the exposure to that ignorance - can be a heavy, devastating load. Especially when we find out that we are personally responsible for our choices - and perception is a choice.

 

Do I advise someone to go free climbing, skydiving, or mountain biking? - Sure, I do.

But it's not for everyone.

High-risk sports and adventures are not for the faint of heart.

You gotta want it bad for yourself. Otherwise, you're in some dangerous territory. Gotta be able to cry and laugh simultaneously.........and then dismiss it all as illusion.


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#4 TVCasualty

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 05:41 PM

Microdosing is fine for maintenance but to break out of that state of mind, possibly permanently, I'd go with at least 5 grams for a first dose, ideally soaked in lime juice to eliminate most if not all body load.

 

That's what I gave my sister when she was 14 for her first trip, but in my defense I was 17 at the time so wasn't an adult with questionable judgment giving drugs to a minor since I was still technically one, too. And she asked, so what could I say? No? Then she might tell mom and dad, so...

 

I did my first trip at 17 and I ate a whole 7 gram bag by myself and it saved my life (literally). My sister had a great time on hers, as many people do when they go big the first time since they don't have the experience that makes those who do get the "pre-trip jitters" (or fear, anxiety, or paranoia) so long as the setting is chosen well (in my case it was indoors, comfortably laying down in total darkness and silence like how I read to do it, lol). My state of mind for my first time was suicidal (as in very close to actually doing it), and afterwards I wasn't anymore.

 

My sister's first trip was at home with our parents out of town, and I stayed with her the whole time (but I ate 14 grams that night since I was still unclear on the how-to's of trip-sitting so was tripping harder than she was). We spent part of the trip wandering around the house like we were seeing it for the first time, and our dog and two cats followed us around the whole time we were out wandering in the yard, making for great companions who we both thought were looking at us like they were wondering what the hell was up. Our dog also kept watch over us which made us feel very safe since he was a very well-trained guard dog (and he was a Rottweiler).

 

 

The greater the need, the greater the result. So have her focus her intent for the trip on what she needs. And you never get a second chance to make a first impression, so it's an opportunity that IMO should not be missed by getting a partial impression thanks to a too-low dose. And if nothing else remember to avoid those mid-range doses where most of the trouble happens. Go 5 or higher or else no higher than 2 (avoid 3-5 grams, at least for now).

 

No matter how much she takes it's not going to harm her, but to prevent other issues from becoming problems stay sober and don't eat nearly three times her dose while acting as her trip-sitter like I did, though we both had a great time.

 

My vote is to go big the first time. It can, no it WILL change the world. Well, the one she's in, at least.


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#5 Moonless

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 05:43 PM

If you do introduce her to mushrooms as a healing method I sure hope she is receptive to them. You can introduce them to her but she will ultimately make the choice to give them a chance or not. IMO to really give them a chance to heal she would have to go off SSRI so she can feel their effects. She is pretty young, you might want to consider waiting for her to get out of high school/ and invite her to do them with you as a first start.

 

None the less you might want to emphasize that mushrooms taken with intention are more powerful healers than mushrooms taken as a drug. I know that you could show her the magic of mushrooms with intention.

 

Whatever you choose, best wishes.


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#6 TVCasualty

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 05:45 PM

 

One good mega-dose can make a person painfully aware of their (deliberately chosen) shortcomings. For some folks - outside of a therapeutic setting - this can be too much to handle.

 

The younger we are when we go big for the first time, the easier on us it seems to be in that regard since we haven't built up very much emotional baggage to deal with yet (usually). I can't imagine being in a worse state of mind than the one I was in when I dove into the deep end head-first (so to speak) for my first trip.


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#7 Guy1298

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 09:50 PM

Well, mushrooms have helped me a lot. I don't really think microdosing would be a solution to depression and body dysmorphia though. It might make things feel a bit nicer, depending on how carefully it was used.

 

I remember before I used mushrooms I had an insecurity around the size of my butt. Sort of odd that a guy felt that way, but I did. I was a bundle of odd insecurities, not brought up in a loving family, I suppose. Maybe it was in my genes to be a bit off, could explain the dysfunction that exists in my family, schizophrenia, anger, abuse, racism, misogyny, pedophilia... you name it, it's in my family. 

 

I do remember that insecurity being one of the first things to go when I started using mushrooms. And it was the eventual catalyst for feelings of euphoria and all-embracing love. 

 

I'd hesitate introducing mushrooms to anyone though. 

 

My brother who's older than I was depressive, so I brewed him cactus. A few months later, he was totally fuckin' paranoid, thought people were watching him through his phone's camera, etc. Did the cactus have a part to play? I don't know. Maybe. For my brother, I think it was necessary that he did whatever he could do. He was having crying fits, suicidal thoughts, he needed something to change the world he saw. Fortunately, he bounced back. Is life better for him? I don't know. A lot still has to change for him, I think. Years of neglect can't be undone so quickly. Being human is quite difficult, ain't it?


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#8 Myc

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 10:28 PM

I don't know how to explain it in coherent terms and I'll probably never attempt to do so again other than here:

 

Mushrooms seem to be "helpers" - they want to help.

 

Cacti seem to be wild-cards - euphoric, ecstatic, energetic/sedative............and other conditions of which I"m aware but have no personal experience. Your story has been added to the personal log. I once was faced with a negative experience while voyaging with cactus - a child-sized figure was following me around the house and whispering awful thing to me in Spanish. English is my first language but I understand, read and write Spanish. I won't repeat the things it said and I've never met it since. That was the only negative experience - ever. (Imagine us in a tent in the back yard with me telling this story with a flashlight shining upward from under my chin and typing the run-on sentence of the ages while cackling madly.)

 

Good LSD seems to be very similar to cactus  - set and setting.

Where in my experience you can get away with "abusing" mushrooms.and acid  (i.e. "overdosing)  Mushrooms may punish you but they will not kill you. Cactus on the other hand..........

 

It's spiritual thing - if you disrespect the spirit or the gift - you might have a price to pay.


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#9 Juthro

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Posted 06 July 2020 - 02:57 PM

This is a sticky question.  I will not in good conscious recommend anyone to help dose a minor, microdose or otherwise,  and I most certainly would not do so in writing on the internet.   With that said, I was around your sisters age when I first tried mushrooms, though for me they were purely recreational at the time.

 

On the flip side of that, I would also never in good conscious recommend anyone (minor, or adult) to take any of the mountain of antidepressants that are currently on the market.  IMHO, I think they are not helpful, and often harmful.  

 

I apologize for not giving a straight answer, but I don't know if you can with this question.

 

Peace, and good vibes to you, and your sister.

 


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#10 mushit

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Posted 06 July 2020 - 03:57 PM

All good advice above.

I am also in favor of introducing them to her, but with her consent.

 

Another thing I would try is St. Johns Wort.  It is a great antidepressant.

It cured my daughter.

 

Sorry for being off topic.

Now back to our regular programming. :rolleyes: 


Edited by mushit, 06 July 2020 - 03:59 PM.

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#11 Boebs

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Posted 06 July 2020 - 04:47 PM

I started picking wild cubes for the same reason. I was homeless at 15 and started eating them. Had nothing but a tent. Mushrooms helped me see there is so much more to life than the approval of others. I am very grateful for what they showed me.

I say bring it up and see if she is interested.

Make it a comfortable no pressure situation.
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#12 ElrikEriksson

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Posted 07 July 2020 - 12:17 AM

Microdosing is fine for maintenance but to break out of that state of mind, possibly permanently, I'd go with at least 5 grams for a first dose, ideally soaked in lime juice to eliminate most if not all body load.

This is what I would do too, and I'd make it just me and her together with me sober or on a dose I could very easily keep myself together on.

Make it clear that its medicine, not a party drug, but its perfectly fine to enjoy it.

Both full and micro- dosing produces 1-2 weeks of antidepressant effect, but to get change done a full dose will do it in a fraction of the time microdosing would.


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#13 TVCasualty

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Posted 07 July 2020 - 09:40 AM

If you do introduce her to mushrooms as a healing method I sure hope she is receptive to them. You can introduce them to her but she will ultimately make the choice to give them a chance or not.

 

This is an important point to emphasize. It's definitely not an experience to impose on anyone who does not want it, or is even unsure of whether they want it. If they're unsure, more homework is in order (and that's another thing I forgot to mention).

 

In my case, I sought the mushrooms out (I actually sought peyote but ended up getting fungi). After telling my sister about my experience, she asked me to get some for her. I never pushed it on her. Thinking about it further, she might actually have been 15 at the time (a year makes a big difference at that stage).

 

I sought peyote because I'd done my psychedelic homework and mostly read stuff about peyote, so that's what I was after. When I got mushrooms, I read as much as I could about them so I at least knew going in that they were safe from a medical perspective, so I went for it like I might not have if I'd read things about them like I read about a lot of synthetic drugs or crap like cough syrup.

 

At that point in my education, all drugs were just "drugs," and it seems to me that the first and most important thing to learn about the self-administered drug scene is that if we don't want to lose our mind, end up in jail or the hospital, or die then we need to understand what we're getting into with EVERY drug we consume, before we consume it. This is self-evident to intelligent and experienced adults, but is a learned skill that those of us who are experienced have a moral obligation to teach the curious, especially if we also promote the consumption of some-but-not-all drugs for medical, spiritual, and/or recreational purposes.


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#14 Coopdog

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Posted 07 July 2020 - 01:48 PM

I am not much for giving anyone their first dose of psychedelic stuff. You just never know what it can uncover that might be lurking just under the surface. Seen it go bad a few times. That being said, I have done it for people after I get a feel for what kind of mind they have. By that, I mean if they have a truly expansive and seeking sort of mind that has absorbed many interesting things and sees beauty and ugliness but doesn't get obsessed with either, and someone who handles their tough times fairly well, (and I know this is a great simplification) then I might just go for it. 

 

However if I can see a person is too caught up in the unimportant details,, or OCD over things that I would not be, or who suffers exceptional anxiety or mood swings, or tends to act out in tense situations, I probably would not. Giving someone their first dose is a huge responsibility, but the pharma route... OMG what a nightmare that was for me, and I would not wish it on anyone. Bottom line here, you have a big and very important decision to make. I pray that whatever way you go, that it comes out positive for you. 

 

EDIT: I am on the side of 5 grams or so rather than microdosing, providing you have a great set and setting where the two of you will be safe. 


Edited by Coopdog, 07 July 2020 - 01:49 PM.

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#15 TVCasualty

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Posted 07 July 2020 - 04:08 PM

One other point that might be worth mentioning is that the vast majority of us obtained our initial psychedelic experiences all by ourselves (or among equally-clueless peers) and often with no credible info or guidance to approach them with. I broke all the "rules" of tripping because I started tripping before I read about such things. So did almost everyone I know who trips, and we all survived intact and usually had consciousness-expanding and positive life-changing first experiences.

 

While most people are very leery of giving psychedelics to minors (apparently doctor-prescribed speed is fine, however), I imagine that if given an educated, fully-informed choice that most parents would choose to be the ones to give their own kids the drugs their kids were curious about trying (and doing so in a controlled environment, like at home) vs. letting their kids find and consume the drugs on their own, maybe even out in public somewhere where all sorts of serious issues can arise, especially for the inexperienced. The same applies among siblings so long as the one doing the guiding is educated and accurately informed about the drugs they are offering advice about (or providing).


Edited by TVCasualty, 07 July 2020 - 04:09 PM.

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#16 Boebs

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Posted 07 July 2020 - 05:10 PM

I spent alot of time researching mushrooms in my area, bought books to help identify, spore paper to make sure.
I searched for 2 years before finding a good field..
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#17 RainbowCatepillar

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Posted 09 July 2020 - 04:37 PM

Thank you guys for your thoughtful responses! This is something I'll think long and hard about before making any decision. You have all brought up great points worth considering and I thank you so much for caring about the wellbeing of my sister.. :)

I'll keep you guys posted on what happens as the situation develops..

Sending good vibes to you all!!
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#18 BrotherDekatessera

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Posted 21 September 2020 - 09:57 PM

Hello Myco Family! Hope everyone is doing relatively well considering how crazy things are. Sending love to you all..

I want to hear your thoughts and opinions on this: so my younger sister is 15, turns 16 in December. She has been struggling with depression and body image dysmorphia for a long time. It's gotten to the point where she says she wants to get on antidepressants because she's "desperate to feel something different" other than her usual despair..

So I got the bright idea that when I grow some shrooms, I may introduce her to microdosing. Of course I have reservations considering her age and likely stage of brain development, but I figure since she'd be taking antidepressants which aren't guaranteed to work or be without side effects, the Big Pharma route isn't any more promising..

What do you guys think? Would it be irresponsible of me to take such a risk? I know the shrooms won't cure her, but perhaps quieting down her brains Default Mode Network will show her that another way of being is possible..

Thank you for taking the time to read this. Any opinions are helpful..

in cultures where psychadelics are still a sacrament, they would be given around that age.

.. but most american kids are basically retarded at 15.

 

but as for 'brain development" etc.. that age is more than fine, optimal tbh.

 

another good question is does she have any traits that speak of latent personality disorders? psychadelics can make things like schizophrenia bloom.

 

an even better question is do you even believe in terms like "body dysmorphia" ? because the reality is that there is no such thing, its just a fancy term the pharmapsych industry made up to clinical-ize womens natural worry about their mating characteristics.  my point is, are you giving her shrooms to help her understand that, or are you "treating" body dysmorphia? because if thats how you are approaching it its not going to help her long run, its just going to reinforceher already problemaic belief  that she needs additives on a regular basis to handle what it would be healthy to just get over and move on. this is the true power of psychadelics.. not microdosing. i have nothing against microdosing for other reasons, but it restricts an actual psychospiritual healing tool to a daily crutch. 

 

psychadelics can fix psychological issues through he power of the trip they provide. why reduce them to what amounts to a daily pill that dulls reality instead of going full on and learning from the mushroom how to deal with reality without a daily crutch? 

 

In my humble opinion after 20+ years of treating cannabis patients and administering psychadelics to people, I would say dont even get involved unless the goal is to help her put herself back together and understand that she is tripping (pun intended) over nothing. if the goal is to treat an imaginary disorder, it will be doing more harm than good. things like this, i.e. how the presentation and context of psychadelic treatment is more important than the psychadelics themselves. this is even more exaggerated with mushrooms because not only is this going to impact her subconsciously in a serious way, but it will do so in tandem not only with psychadelics, but neurogenesis, thereby literally hardwiring it in to her. 


Edited by BrotherDekatessera, 21 September 2020 - 10:02 PM.


#19 TVCasualty

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Posted 22 September 2020 - 08:56 AM

In my humble opinion after 20+ years of treating cannabis patients and administering psychadelics to people, I would say dont even get involved unless the goal is to help her put herself back together and understand that she is tripping (pun intended) over nothing. if the goal is to treat an imaginary disorder, it will be doing more harm than good.

 
 
Isn't that the same thing? That is, doesn't treating an imaginary disorder involve helping someone put themselves back together and understand that they're tripping over nothing, assuming the disorder is actually imaginary?
 
 
And how do you "treat" cannabis patients? What's the difference between a cannabis "user" and a "patient?"
 
 


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