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Pharmahuasca


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#1 el_ronhub_bird

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Posted 09 July 2020 - 03:05 PM

Ok people, I've gotta very important question for you all; what is a proper dosage for pharmahuasca? Both harmalas and DMT. I don't know how important it is but it's probably best for me to put it out there; the DMT is derived from MHRB and the harmalas are derived from Syrian rue seeds. I'm going to be guiding a friend on a journey so I need to get this right. Thank you very much topiates
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#2 Norman

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Posted 09 July 2020 - 03:59 PM

I’m no purist by any means but I can’t recommend extracted DMT for ayahuasca. Weird jangly incomplete trip.
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#3 BecomeTheOther

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Posted 10 July 2020 - 10:52 AM

Depends on what how strong of an experience you are going for,

Did you extract the harmalas yourself?  is what you have harmala, harmaline, or a mix?

 

With those questions answered we should be able to get you a solid starting point!



#4 Norman

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Posted 10 July 2020 - 03:12 PM

Common dosage is 3-5 g rue and 7-10 g MHRB or the equivalent in extract.

#5 pharmer

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Posted 10 July 2020 - 06:45 PM

Puhleez grind, tea, and filter the livin' shit out of both those ingredients. Unpleasant things happen to your innards if you don't

 

I've done that mix and had an awesome trip. If you get it right you'll remember, or at least be greatly affected by it, for a long time



#6 el_ronhub_bird

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Posted 11 July 2020 - 02:25 PM

Depends on what how strong of an experience you are going for,
Did you extract the harmalas yourself? is what you have harmala, harmaline, or a mix?

With those questions answered we should be able to get you a solid starting point!


I did not extract the harmalas myself but they were extracted from rue, not caapi. So it's a mixture of all 3.

#7 el_ronhub_bird

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Posted 11 July 2020 - 02:28 PM

Puhleez grind, tea, and filter the livin' shit out of both those ingredients. Unpleasant things happen to your innards if you don't

I've done that mix and had an awesome trip. If you get it right you'll remember, or at least be greatly affected by it, for a long time


The DMT and harmalas are already extracted. Are you saying i should filter them further?

#8 el_ronhub_bird

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Posted 11 July 2020 - 02:43 PM

So we've settled on a succession of changa sessions as opposed to the pharmahuasca. I do appreciate all the input though guys, and please continue to share. Because I will eventually get into the pharmahuasca sessions when the time is right and i can experiment until I figure out optimal dosage and ratios. I decided to go with changa (as a surefire plan) as opposed to experimenting with pharmahuasca dosages because my friend is in need of a psychedelic therapy session so it's just not the right time to be experimenting. But like I said, let's keep this thread going because I will need the information somewhere down the road. And someone may need it before I do. Oh and here's a pic of the changa i made

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#9 ElrikEriksson

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Posted 11 July 2020 - 11:27 PM

You can take syrian rue extract orally 45-60 minutes before starting a changa session to get better effect from the changa.

 

That's how I discovered I absolutely freaking love to take harmine with mescaline and then take more again 2 hours in, because I planned to smoke DMT at the mescaline peak and I like to have oral harmalas in me when I smoke.

The second harmala dose made the mescaline go so high I didn't need DMT though :laugh:



#10 pharmer

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Posted 12 July 2020 - 08:50 AM

 

Puhleez grind, tea, and filter the livin' shit out of both those ingredients. Unpleasant things happen to your innards if you don't

I've done that mix and had an awesome trip. If you get it right you'll remember, or at least be greatly affected by it, for a long time


The DMT and harmalas are already extracted. Are you saying i should filter them further?

 

No need. You hadn't mentioned extracts and I assumed something I should not have. My advice would apply only to someone doing his own teas of plant materials.


Edited by pharmer, 12 July 2020 - 08:51 AM.


#11 el_ronhub_bird

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Posted 12 July 2020 - 02:24 PM

@pharmer-sorry i wasn't more specific. I was under the impression that pharmahuasca implied extracted or chemically pure substances. But it's not like our community has an officially sanctioned dictionary to refer to so we can only go by consensus definitions. If I'm using the term incorrectly, please let me know.

#12 el_ronhub_bird

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Posted 12 July 2020 - 02:30 PM

I’m no purist by any means but I can’t recommend extracted DMT for ayahuasca. Weird jangly incomplete trip.


What do you suppose causes the difference? Other alkaloids? Entourage effect?

#13 Norman

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Posted 12 July 2020 - 03:58 PM

I dunno. I guess it’s a whole plant thing like cactus versus mescaline. We evolved to use the whole plant and the plant evolved for all of its constituents to interact. I think it’s all too complicated to reduce to components and something is lost if you try.
It’s funny how people that have used synthesized DMT say it’s different than even the most refined plant extract even though they’re both technically pure DMT.

The nomenclature is all messed up. Back in the day pharmahuasca meant a pharmaceutical MAOI combined with a DMT source but almost nobody does that anymore. Some say it’s an ayahuasca analog if you don’t use vine regardless of your MAOI source. Some say you have to use psycotria and not MHRB.

I say do whatever works and don’t sweat the name.

#14 tregar

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Posted 17 July 2020 - 07:33 AM

Norman said:

I’m no purist by any means but I can’t recommend extracted DMT for ayahuasca. Weird jangly incomplete trip.

Norman is absolutely right, this dreamer has dreamed Ayahuasca with caapi and hawaiian psychotria over 65 times over the years, and it kicks the living %%[email protected]%$ out of any kind of extracted xtals....here's why, this person agrees with me, he is Julian Palmer, perhaps you remember him, he used to be active for over 10 years, then he started writing books...this is what he said, and I completely agree with him. Take true Ayahuasca with actual hawaiian psychotria leaf brew mixed with caapi (the caapi can be an extract or brew from vine) and it will have you crying for your mommy for 90 minutes it is so powerful...but extracted xtals even at amounts 2x to 3x (120 to 240mg) what a natural dose is found in 30g of the leaf (natural 60mg) will not even compare quality or strength wise:

 

From "Articulations, On the Utilisation and Meanings of Psychedelics" (2015) by Julian Palmer:
Modern day researchers, spearheaded by people such as myself, have realized that Jonathan Ott's calculations fall short of what most explorers need for a truly visionary experience. Even with a strong harmine/Banisteriopsis caapi dosage, 30-60mg of dmt is not sufficient to produce significant visionary effects in most people. So if fact, a dosage of 30-40mg of dmt is where tryptamine-like effects just begin to occur for most people, and 10-25mg dmt is not really noticeable above the gentle psychoactive effects of the harmine.
 
Each person is different and for some rare individuals, 30-40mg may be about as much dmt as they wish to take--but most people need at least 60-80mg for sufficient psychoactive effects and even at this dosage, you generally cannot expect a full-blown visionary experience, even when using a strong dose of 4 grams of syrian rue or 100 grams of strong caapi vine. Also, it should be pointed out that going beyond 4 grams of syrian rue (around 200-280mg of harmaline) or 100 grams of strong caapi vine (150--250mg of harmine) can increase the negative effects of these beta-carbolines--which include a feeling of heaviness, pressure in the head, inability to walk properly, more purging and perhaps more of an emphasis on bodily processes.
 
An oral dosage of 100mg of dmt is where the visionary qualities really begin to occur, for most people say when they are taking 3 grams of syrian rue or 80 grams of strong vine, and in context, 40-60 grams of strong vine is enough to fully mao inhibit most people.
 
I would say to neophyte explorers to tread carefully, and to slowly increase your dmt dosage in increments: perhaps starting at 60mg, going to 100mg, then 150mg. Some people are going to find 100mg of dmt to be exceedingly strong, and it will perhaps give them an experience they did not feel ready for.
 
It came to my attention after an embarrassing number of years, that taking freebase crystal DMT orally was not as potent, colourful, or clear as taking the equivalent amount of DMT in a tea that was brewed from the plant. For many years, I couldn't see how there could be a difference, but after doing some comparisons, it was obvious that the tea was much better, and the experiences resulting from the crystalline extract were inferior.
 
You could take twice or even three times as much DMT crystal as the equivalent in brew, and the experience from the crystal would never be as bright or full as that from the tea. Why could this be?
 
With extracted dmt, with chemicals used it would appear that some dimensions and qualities of the tryptamine molecules are compromised. Also, there is the factor of isolating the alkaloids from the rest of the plant. For example, there are very few people who say that extracted pure mescaline from the cactus is as potent of full bodied compared to when they take the tea made from the cactus flesh.
 
When making a tea from the whole plant, you are extracting the essence of the plant intelligence from its very flesh, not just isolating the alkaloids. In the alchemic method "Spagyrics" developed by Paracelsus, often considered the father of modern medicine, the ashes of the plant are commonly burnt and then blended back into an alcohol-extracted tincture. Friends who have experimented with this procedure report that a Spagyric tincture of Ayahuasca is much more potent than a normal tea prepared from the same amount of Ayahuasca vine.

 

 

Here is what dream leaf brew looks like after you boil 30 to 35 grams of hawaiian psychotria leaf for 25 minutes, then filter it thru a strainer, then filter it thru a cotton ball in a funnel (gets out all the irritating particles that cause nausea in the stomach and intestines). then boil it down to 2oz....incredibly strong..just like in the Jungle. I've had dream experiences where I could not move an inch after dream consuming...cause the visuals and visions were so dense with eyes open or closed for 90 minutes straight...I had to sit put in one place The Aya was so strong...quality wise it is incomparable to any kind of extraction. Totally blows it away.  Use it the way the Shamans use it. 

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#15 tregar

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Posted 17 July 2020 - 07:46 AM

:chucks: Just back away from the chemicals...(1) cacti, (2) Aya, (3) morning glory....they all kick ass without the use of chemical extractions...make a (1) tea, (2) make a brew, (3) make an acidic cold water extract (LSH in the morning glory seeds only survives in acidic water). YES, it may cost a little bit more to buy some hawaiian psychotria leaf...but it will be an experience you will never forget...it will be just like Jungle made Ayahuasca...you will be immersed from all directions in colors and visions...tracers that go onto infinity...none of this happens with xtal extracts...use the pure leaf brew...it will blow you away...and once you brew the leaf and filter it, let it sit in freezer till frozen, then move to fridge, and any leftover mud will move to the very bottom, just decant off the top orange active layer and consume that at the exact same time as you cappi---mix the two together--consume TOGETHER just as shamans do...this way it is the most active. Don't stray from the way the Shamans use it. 

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Details of cotton ball stuffed in a funnel filtering:
 
You should love the cotton ball filtering, it works for filtering out the debris from Ayahuasca, Cactus, or Morning glory seeds, when and if the cotton clogs, you simply replace it with another and continue filtering, may take 2, 3 or more cotton ball chang-ings, but your entheogenic brew will come out super clean and active, your stomach and intestines will thank you--no nausea! Yes, coffee filters are useless. Have dreamed this method of filtering for decades--get's all the nauseating particles out but leaves the water soluble actives in solution. Beats the heck out of useless coffee filters which will not allow anything to flow.
 
To use: just put one cotton ball in a large clean funnel to make it sediment free which reduces or eliminates nausea to the intestines...have two of these funnels with a cotton ball stuffed in them sitting in a large tall jar sitting side by side so that you can pour off liquid from funnel #1 into adjacent "funnel in a jar #2" to continue filtering once the 1st jar's cotton clogs up or slows down the flow too much, continue pouring off the funnel's contents back and forth changing out the cotton when or if it clogs.
 
When you are done with your cotton ball in a funnel filtering, take all your spent cotton and combine it in your hand into a single wad, make a fist and wring out any leftover liquid into a final funnel in a jar with cotton ball stuffed in it, to get every last bit of particle free liquid. You will want to use the larger size black funnels that you can find in your nearest automotive store, buy several of them.

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Edited by tregar, 17 July 2020 - 08:01 AM.

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#16 el_ronhub_bird

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Posted 17 July 2020 - 08:26 AM

I would love to work with actual ayahuasca and I'm sure i will at some point but i simply don't have the means at the moment.

#17 tregar

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Posted 17 July 2020 - 09:17 AM

Hang in there el_ronhub_bird, you will have the means one day. There actually is only 60 to 70mg in 30g hawaiian leaf, it was confirmed years ago by two people on different forum doing a small scale extraction. The dynamics of digestion is what plays a major factor, we may never understand why it blows extracted xtals out of the water, but it does I guarantee it.
 
Have in dreams hawaiian psychotria brought directly from Hawaii for cheap, just google "hawaiian psychotria" and you will find it when you have the means. The bay no longer let's anyone sell even caapi extracts or hawaiian psychotria, they suck big time. They won't even really let anyone sell certain cacti anymore either.

Edited by tregar, 17 July 2020 - 04:02 PM.


#18 el_ronhub_bird

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Posted 17 July 2020 - 09:24 AM

Have in dreams kilograms of hawaiian psychotria brought directly from Hawaii for cheap, hang in there el_ronhub_bird, just google "hawaiian psychotria" and you will find it when you have the means. Ebay no longer let's anyone sell even caapi extracts or hawaiian psychotria, they suck big time. They won't even really let anyone sell cacti anymore either....this is what happens when greedy power hungry CEO's with investors and stockholders to impress take over, the man ruins everything, always has.


I've actually already found a source for Hawaiian psychotria, and I'll be ordering some really soon. I personally cannot partake until I get off this blasted SSRI. I hope to be able to get off of antidepressants altogether through the use of psychedelics. I'm just not there yet. But thanks Tregar. I really appreciate your contributions to the community
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#19 Norman

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Posted 17 July 2020 - 02:27 PM

I’d steer clear of any MAOI’s if you’re on antidepressants. Bad things can happen.

And unfortunately - “ this is what happens” when greedy drug dealers find out how to extract from legal plant sources and start buying massive amounts and selling shit at shows and festivals to people that probably shouldn’t be using heavy psychedelics. The greedy CEOs would love to continue selling everything they can because it makes them money but when LE gets involved because of these idiots they shut it down.
Sorry, pet peeve.
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#20 tregar

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Posted 17 July 2020 - 03:41 PM

el_ronhub_bird said:

I've actually already found a source for Hawaiian psychotria, and I'll be ordering some really soon. I personally cannot partake until I get off this blasted SSRI. I hope to be able to get off of antidepressants altogether through the use of psychedelics. I'm just not there yet.

So glad to hear el_ronhub_bird, you will not regret it. Psychedelics (particularly Ayahuasca) got me off all drugs of any kind. She is a miracle worker. For the price of what people spend on chemicals, they could buy great quality psychotria. 

 

Girl in photo is Sophia Rokhlin, the co-author of "when plants dream". Damn good book on Ayahuasca. She wrote book with Daniel Pinchbeck, one of my all time favorite authors. The classic is "Antipodes of the Mind" with Prof. Benny Shanon, (Oxford University) on Ayahuasca who took her (mother Ayahuasca, master plant teacher) over 125 times.

 

http://www.friskyradio.com


Edited by tregar, 17 July 2020 - 08:41 PM.

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