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PSA from "Republican Voters Against Trump"


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#21 riseabovethought

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Posted 23 October 2020 - 11:57 AM

'Lesser of the 2 evils' sounds like a bad reason to give out this job, but hey, what could possibly go wrong?  I think anarchy is the only way home now.  And dont let the word scare you, it just means without a king.  It means no man should rule another and that freedom really should reign.  The land of the free could mean something again.  But Im not sure how to kick them all out of office for fraud, for not representing us, and fine the 600 richest American billionaires that same amount they received in Covid-19 stimulus bill relief that they didnt need, and then redistribute that money to Americans who need it.  That would be a small step in the right direction, but again, dont hold your breath.  You have a much better chance of getting beaten to death while protesting police brutality.  The irony is astounding.


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#22 Juthro

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Posted 23 October 2020 - 02:39 PM

'Lesser of the 2 evils' sounds like a bad reason to give out this job, but hey, what could possibly go wrong? 

 

So you would prefer the greater of 2 evils?  


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#23 FLASHINGROOSTER

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Posted 23 October 2020 - 06:19 PM

When I think of revolution Syria comes to mind, years of destruction and death, a civil war that caused the largest mass migration since WW2. No question that Assad is a terrible dictator, but I bet you could find millions that would want to rewind the clock back to when they had a functioning country. The thing with a revolution is there is going to be more than one side seeking to grasp power, and once they get it, almost immediately they become the thing that they were violently against.... Take the Chaz experiment this summer for example. They formed a police force, and put up barricades (walls) to control the flow of people coming in and out.

 

 

All this talk of revolution, just be careful what you wish for, it can still get much worse in ways we have never imagined

 

The powers that be seem to have us in just the right spot. It's not bad enough to warrant risking losing it all, but not good enough that people feel secure

 

Lately with the lock downs, financial robbery and the inability to earn money, has combined to push some people closer to crossing that line. But you still have to wonder if its all really worth it. It's frustrating for sure but I am not ready to jeopardize it for a violent revolution quite yet. I understand that everyone lives in different area's so folk likely feel differently. Some of yall may be harder hit by unemployment and poverty, although I am watching the city near me start to die too, albeit mostly due to declining market prices in the energy sector since around say 2013

 

Removing money from politics would be a good start, as well we should take a second look at having career politicians like Mitch and Nancy. I still believe that the system can work because it was built on a good foundation, over the years we have slowly eroded the power people had over their government. As long as the partisan politics distracts us from the systemic issues that both sides perpetuate, nothing will get solved. It's a good trick, have everyone believe that the system will get better every four or eight years when their guy gets in.

 

So you might ask how do we start to adjust that, voting for people that we actually support is something people need to start doing as well. I recently towed the party line to make sure a certain side won rather than vote for the independent that I really wanted to, it felt like a wasted vote to do so as I knew the person would not win. I even told my friend that did vote for the independent that he threw his vote in the garbage. If I could do it all over again a guy would like to believe that their vote would have been different but that's easy to say now sitting here typing. I was pressured by fear of the other side retaining power and bypassed the idea of my personal vote meaning something.

 

Voting for an independent seems like a waste but if we don't sow those seeds the fruit will never grow. In a perfect world the government would be entirely independents, voted in by their constituents to represent their local problems. Not what we have now that is a battle of two sides, towing the party line in an effort to hold power over one another. You can add a couple more parties into the mix but the issue of towing votes still remains. Two parties seems like a rip off but the additional parties added in other countries usually just end up being more extreme versions of left right dichotomy anyway


Edited by FLASHINGROOSTER, 23 October 2020 - 07:01 PM.


#24 Juthro

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Posted 23 October 2020 - 07:12 PM

I would agree with you to a point, Rooster.  Something needs to change so that there can be more than just option A, or B, but right now choosing option C IS a wasted vote, as there is no realistic chance in hell that any option C could win an presidential election.

 

I'll tell you the same thing I told Alder, you come up with a plan that can work, and I'll listen to it, but until then the lesser of two evils it is. I'm not willing to accept the worst of two options just to make a point, especially when so much is at stake..

 

 



#25 FLASHINGROOSTER

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Posted 23 October 2020 - 08:24 PM

The question is brother how do we break that cycle? Given the same chance even I said I would likely tow the line again even though I am saying not to.

 

Come next election all the people on the other side will have the same feeling and the independent's will never be, then the next election same thing, it just repeats itself.  I wish I had an answer, convincing people to vote independent probably starts with a few million dollars of advertising and ad manipulation to try to topple a major political party. Then you run the risk of banding together with others creating your own party to "defeat" the ones in power. It's a bit of a conundrum. Mostly I am just thinking out loud man

 

No worries governor, I will try to convince you after this election Juthro :wink: I think I might be onto something. :hookah:

 

plus it's only a week or so to go anyway, I totally agree it's too late to change enough peoples minds


Edited by FLASHINGROOSTER, 23 October 2020 - 08:28 PM.

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#26 Arathu

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Posted 23 October 2020 - 10:50 PM

I can't vote for these clowns, I have a reputation to maintain....

 

MORE people need to waste their votes on Libertarians ....IMHO of course...

 

Damn I love this country!

 

A


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#27 Juthro

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Posted 24 October 2020 - 03:03 AM

I support your right to make the vote you think is correct, Arathu, and I respect your opinion, but I'm not going to follow it.

 

I love this country too, brother  :hug:


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#28 Arathu

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Posted 24 October 2020 - 08:32 AM

I support your right to make the vote you think is correct, Arathu, and I respect your opinion, but I'm not going to follow it.

 

I love this country too, brother  :hug:

And it is mutual Juthro.....and THAT's the America that I remember and desire to see again.....we plugged at each other and our choices/thoughts UNTIL the election......the we went back to being AMERICANS all together....

 

You know....as in UNITED STATES not hateful divided selfish FOOLS......the Chinese and the Russians are still watching (shit PARTICIPATING), as are many others......

 

Modern warfare does not involve explosives and John Wayne styled CHARGE scenes......it's coming through the internet, NEWS channels, and these god damned cell phones.....

 

:hug:    I'm all about freedom and liberty for ALL......globally in fact!

 

A


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#29 riseabovethought

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Posted 24 October 2020 - 10:30 AM

 

I'll tell you the same thing I told Alder, you come up with a plan that can work, and I'll listen to it, but until then the lesser of two evils it is.

 

What he was saying 

and what Im saying is

that the lesser of 2 evils

IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH!

[Direct Link]


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#30 Juthro

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Posted 24 October 2020 - 01:18 PM

 

 

I'll tell you the same thing I told Alder, you come up with a plan that can work, and I'll listen to it, but until then the lesser of two evils it is.

 

What he was saying 

and what Im saying is

that the lesser of 2 evils

IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH!

 

 

OK, so then you, Alder, and I all agree on something.  So how about that plan to make it better? 

 

'Cuz knowingly allowing the greater of two evils to win because your not satisfied with how the game works is pretty close to cutting off your nose to spite your face, IMHO of course.

 

You're banging the same drum as Alder, for sure, but it's still only bitching about the way it is, and not offering any real options.  So just like I told him then, I'll say to you now, if banging that drum is what you feel is the right thing to do, bang away.   Just don't expect me to march to the beat.

 

Peace

 

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Edited by Juthro, 24 October 2020 - 01:31 PM.

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#31 newmoon

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Posted 24 October 2020 - 02:08 PM

The choice at present is between a corporatist, bigoted warmonger and a corporatist, bigoted warmonger who's also promoting the continuation of failing policies on the pandemic and the economy, white supremacist eugenics, the murder of political dissidents, and the accelerated destruction of what's left of the natural environment; I feel no affection for any politician or political party, but this wasn't a hard choice. There's no other option this time around, one of them is going to win...

 

It's nice to talk about how both parties are corrupt and evil, and they are, but it's hard for me to understand denying the difference and its importance between the two.


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#32 ElPirana

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Posted 24 October 2020 - 08:22 PM

What a rotten situation overall. I’ve never been one to be able to vote for the lesser of two evils, so I voted 3rd party for the first three elections that I was able. I lost heart in the whole damn thing and didn’t vote at all in the last two presidential elections. I can understand the point of view that one candidate will lead the country into ruins faster than the other, but at the same time if we just continue this way election after election, then we are all still ultimately culpable for the bad shit that’s inevitably coming. Maybe withholding a vote is actually something that we can do, something that says we don’t buy into any of the status quo. It’s a small thing, but it still seems better than participating and giving them anything.
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#33 Juthro

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Posted 24 October 2020 - 09:09 PM

I can understand the point of view that one candidate will lead the country into ruins faster than the other, but at the same time if we just continue this way election after election, then we are all still ultimately culpable for the bad shit that’s inevitably coming. Maybe withholding a vote is actually something that we can do, something that says we don’t buy into any of the status quo. It’s a small thing, but it still seems better than participating and giving them anything.

 

With all due respect, ElPirana,  IMO, not voting, or tossing your vote away where you know it can't win is what the front runners want. 

 

Choosing to not participate isn't going to bring the change you want, it just perpetuates the problem.  We need more people that actively vote, and need them to do so in local, and especially in primary elections,  that is the only way to bring real change with the system we have to work with. 

 

Also, if the greater of the evils wins, and truly runs us into ruins, there may not be future elections to worry about not voting in.  Look at the ass hat that is running the show right now, and think about all the negative shit that he, and his henchman have done over the last 4 years, do you really think that letting him be reelected is not going to be a rinse, and repeat of the last 4 years?  Do you think the country can survive that?

 

But I respect that your vote is yours, and yours alone to do with as you see fit.  I'll still call you a brother no matter your choice.



#34 TVCasualty

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Posted 25 October 2020 - 10:06 AM

Uncanny.

 

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#35 FLASHINGROOSTER

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Posted 25 October 2020 - 10:24 AM

  Respecting each others right to vote or not vote or whatever is what it's really all about right. Accepting who win's and trying to come together to find some common ground.

 

It's easier to see the effect the ruling party has during their presidency but I  think equally important, and largely underestimated is how the opposition reacts. Rodger and Fox went all in against Obama running stupid shit like the birther conspiracy, it created this form of very dishonest journalism that had become divorced from its true function. Granted that erosion was well on it's way by that time.  Being effectively critical of the government had been lost, MSM was now in bed with them practicing biased flamboyant reporting on both sides.  So flash ahead to the 2016 election and it looked liked the poles had switched. Now Fox was going to grant soft coverage to the president and CNN, CNBC, ABC ect were all going to adopt Fox's stance of tabloid style journalism, one sided opposition.

 

Political talk show host, Bill Maher said we are the revolution

 

That has me a little scared of what is to come. Watching the four years of wholesale rejection of his presidency it's been wild. I agree not sure I can stomach another four years of half the country exploding at the seams trying to deal with it. The opposition has dug in deep so one can't help but worry, how hard is that pendulum going to swing when the democrats regain power, and in what form will the rights rejection come. More people peacefully protesting in the streets perhaps? We might be pining for the good old days when it was just citizens versus police

 

Does the rejection of the opposition seem to be scaling up or is this an isolated incident that will disappear with the orange man? Right wing opinion media has really grown on the internet so the voice of dissent are there, the talking heads are ready to start flapping. Claiming this time they are the revolution 

 

 Hopefully am just blowing out nonsense smoke, speculating. More thinking out loud

 

Here's to hoping things will be fine either way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

One small election prediction, no matter who wins, the media is going to be following Donald Trump for a while after the election, he is their addiction

 

 

 

 

 

 



#36 TVCasualty

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Posted 25 October 2020 - 11:50 AM

 

 

I'll tell you the same thing I told Alder, you come up with a plan that can work, and I'll listen to it, but until then the lesser of two evils it is.

 

What he was saying 

and what Im saying is

that the lesser of 2 evils

IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH!

 

 

 

Of course it's not good enough. But refusing to compromise and taking what is arguably a revolutionary (possibly literally), uncompromising approach is a dangerous proposition in the U.S. at the moment (among other countries).

 

That's because a country with increasing Fascist tendencies will tend to have a Fascist revolution if things destabilize enough to allow such, and the far-Right seems to me to be a lot closer to starting their version of an actual revolution than any manifestation of the Left is.

 

And evil exists along a spectrum (if we grant that it exists at all as something other than an abstract construct), so while the lesser of two evils is still technically evil it doesn't mean all examples of evil are equivalent.

 

This becomes clearer in a different context, which is why I like the analogy of this election being like a choice between getting shot in the face vs. in the leg. If we're forced to pick a body part to get shot in and can't otherwise avoid it then no one in their right mind would hesitate for even a moment to choose the "lesser" evil of being shot in the leg. The problem seems to be that those who demand the right to choose neither and not get shot at all are denying the fact that they MUST get shot in either the leg or the face regardless of their preference for neither, so to pick neither or not pick at all is to implicitly choose a shot to the face.


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#37 Juthro

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Posted 25 October 2020 - 03:38 PM

How to talk to your MAGA friends, and family.

 

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#38 TVCasualty

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Posted 26 October 2020 - 07:23 AM

Since it looks like the obedient Handmaiden chosen to take the Supreme Court back to the 18th Century will be confirmed today by the cabal of sociopathic traitors who are destroying the country for personal gain it almost doesn't matter anymore whether Trump is reelected or not.

 

The damage that's already been done is bad enough and will take a long time to fix (assuming that fixing it is even possible), but Barrett's confirmation is the bitter icing on the Trump hellcake that will likely ensure that the damage continues to get worse long after the GOP loses control of Congress and the White House. It's hard to clean up a disaster while it's still unfolding, and the way things are going we may never get the chance.


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#39 newmoon

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Posted 26 October 2020 - 09:02 AM

The political parties in the USA don't care if you vote 3rd party or if you don't vote; this is part of their strategy to win (the Republicans, primarily). For example, see this article in the WaPo "Trump just comes out and says it: The GOP is hurt when it's easier to vote" discussing Trump's statement about expanded access to voting:
 

“The things they had in there were crazy,” Trump said. “They had things — levels of voting that, if you ever agreed to it, you’d never have a Republican elected in this country again.”

 

Thinking that low voter turnout or third party votes will damage the state's legitimacy assumes that the ruling parties care about a popular mandate, which they don't; the Republicans in particular care about winning by whatever means possible, and if that includes you not voting then, well, joke's on you. If you want to shift the political landscape towards something better I think the most effective way is to organize at the local level, with your neighbors and communities, and then work to make change and take over the political party of your choice from the local level up...

 

 

Flashingrooster: you're setting up an equivalence between far-right (Fox et al) and center-left (CNN and such) media, but I don't think that holds up at all: Fox is/was largely trafficking in falsehoods, and CNN for the most part isn't. The role of the media should be to oppose those in power, or at least to try to dig up dirt; the problem with Fox isn't that they were doing this, but that they were making shit up.


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#40 Juthro

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Posted 26 October 2020 - 03:36 PM

Another add from the Lincoln Project about don the con.

 

[Direct Link]


Edited by Juthro, 26 October 2020 - 03:37 PM.





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