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Panaeolus Questions


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#21 Akari

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Posted 03 August 2020 - 08:46 PM

I'm confused about the "recover" part.

 

You colonize a tray, then break it down?



#22 Jrotten

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Posted 03 August 2020 - 08:57 PM

I'm confused about the "recover" part.

You colonize a tray, then break it down?

No. I create a liquid culture from an agar wedge. I put my whole sub together in a bag including a little bit of grain. I put that in a myco bag and sterilze the bag. Then I use a 60ml syringe with 14g needle to withdraw the liquid culture into the syringe, then I inject that sterile LC into sterile substrate. That colonizes in about 10-15 days. I then break that bag up and put it in trays. I give it 5 days to recover after that.

For pans you want a substrate less than 2 inches and you have to have a casing layer but you want it to be 5mm or less according to everyone that I follow. Using straw and manure you have a little work to get a level substrate which is important and the same goes fro the casing layer.

I’m using small trays, but either way you can see how there’s an issue going from that bag to a fruiting tray.

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Edited by Jrotten, 03 August 2020 - 08:59 PM.


#23 PJammer24

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Posted 04 August 2020 - 08:50 AM

Adding more spawn with a weak, slow culture will still help... If you use twice as much spawn and the jars are fully colonized, you have twice as many inoculation points from which colonization starts... Having double the spawn cuts colonization time in half even if you are working with slower genetics.

 

Obviously, working with fast colonizing genetics would be ideal, however, if you have spawn that you colonized with slow genetics... Using more spawn will help get the substrate colonized prior to contamination... The genetics won't be so slow that it can't recolonize each individual grain prior to that grain getting contaminated and if you use a ton of grain, the myc on each individual grain has to colonize a smaller amount of substrate... Increasing the spawn ratio will absolutely help you colonize faster... The slower the genetics, the more spawn you will need to use...

 

It would be best to start with aggressive genetics but if you have adequate spawn of the slower genetics, it should do the trick when enough is used.


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#24 rockyfungus

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Posted 04 August 2020 - 04:41 PM

Ever noticed with bad genetics that shaking pans @30% the  grain that won't recover. Much prefer that then having sub fail.



#25 PJammer24

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Posted 05 August 2020 - 08:23 AM

Ever noticed with bad genetics that shaking pans @30% the  grain that won't recover. Much prefer that then having sub fail.

If the jar doesn't recover, obviously you wouldn't use it... I am talking about fully colonized jars that are slow but do colonize... If you use more of the slow genetics that still colonize, it will offset the slow colonization speed and help out run the competition.



#26 rockyfungus

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Posted 05 August 2020 - 08:27 AM

How long roughly? Because maybe I'm not patient enough.

Heard Pans were aggressive but all my attempts were crawling.



#27 Jrotten

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Posted 05 August 2020 - 10:29 PM

28 days spore to spore I think is doable. I don’t know that I could. I’m an awful journaler

#28 Elf Salvation

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 01:55 PM

I have grown alot of pannaleous. Doing bulk horse/cow/composted hay.. I would put a layer of past. Sub down and sprinkle the colonized grain spawn lightly and top with another layer of past sub. Let's the fungus run. Rather than mix grain with sub like cubes, just damages the pan myc.
One quart of pan grain spawn can go a long way. I figure grain in the middle of two layers of sub prevents contaminates and using less grain, cakes would work to, the mycelium runs strong and the grain spawn is trapped in the middle with healthy myc.
They fruit great in a fully fogged greenhouse Martha. Even fanned and misted monotubs.
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#29 YoshiTrainer

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 03:55 PM

I just put a 1/4 pint of MS pan agar started on 7/28 to grain/sub last night. Hopefully it eats the qt in a week or two.

#30 Asura

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 05:41 PM

Pan cyans do not usually do well with high amounts of grain spawn. It has the opposite effect of what you

would see in a cube grow. Usually ends up with little to no yield and very small fruits. High amounts of

grain can prevent them from ever leaving the vegetative state. This is what I've seen after many years of

growing these pretty much year around, exclusively.

 

My grows typically use around 250g of grain spread across almost 3kg of substrate (enough for two

3 quart trays).

 

@rockyfungus, it's best to do a bunch of work up front to find a fast, wispy culture. Do a bunch of plates

up front (like 9-12) and you will at least get 1 or 2 candidates. For me, it's always been a mistake taking

a slow culture forward.


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#31 Elf Salvation

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Posted 09 August 2020 - 01:00 AM

https://mycotopia.ne...-pan-tropicals/

Here is a little log of the tropicals I grew years ago in monotubs. Sadly i believe they got verticillium, they kept growing though. Did get prints but suspect they will have the very on them too.
Was gonna try to screen the spores with 20,13,5 micron mesh. Or treat them with cold bleach water. Well see if I can get a vert free culture.
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#32 Elf Salvation

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Posted 09 August 2020 - 01:04 AM

https://mycotopia.ne...ub-style/page-2

Mono tubes of sandoze domesticate formerly known as Large Florida Pan Cyans.
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#33 Elf Salvation

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Posted 09 August 2020 - 01:10 AM

https://mycotopia.ne...e-pan-vietnams/

Old pan Vietnam grow.
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#34 Jrotten

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Posted 09 August 2020 - 02:32 AM

Wow.  Seeing pan canopies like those makes me feel like I should either try much harder or give up and I'm never sure which! 



#35 Akari

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Posted 09 August 2020 - 02:37 PM

Pan cyans do not usually do well with high amounts of grain spawn. It has the opposite effect of what you
would see in a cube grow. Usually ends up with little to no yield and very small fruits. High amounts of
grain can prevent them from ever leaving the vegetative state. This is what I've seen after many years of
growing these pretty much year around, exclusively.
 
My grows typically use around 250g of grain spread across almost 3kg of substrate (enough for two
3 quart trays).
 
@rockyfungus, it's best to do a bunch of work up front to find a fast, wispy culture. Do a bunch of plates
up front (like 9-12) and you will at least get 1 or 2 candidates. For me, it's always been a mistake taking
a slow culture forward.

 

Noted

 

 

 



#36 Elf Salvation

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Posted 09 August 2020 - 04:39 PM

Wow. Seeing pan canopies like those makes me feel like I should either try much harder or give up and I'm never sure which!


Just bulk spawn your colonized spawn bags to pasteurized dung/composted hay.. even using spawn bags of dung just need to sprinkle a little between the top and bottom layer. Now when I make the tubs I try to be wring out the dampness on the sub. I like to cover the spawn say in monotubs I would lay down clean news paper or wax paper on top for trays in the martha just cover with black piece of plastic till colonized. When I case them I water them to saturation of the casing layer. Harvest in a week and saturate them again, pump sprayer. Fan three or more times a day with mono tubs. Mono tubs just have plastic sheeting taped over tops with slits holes cut in the plastic sheet. Using the martha greenhouse I was even having to drain water from tubs and they fruit like mad.
Now even when I inoculated the tropicals, little grain spawn to spawn bags of dung they would fruit invite, dumped one of the spawn bags into a tray and fruited in greenhouse.
The sandoze I first grew like 2006 produced seven flushes some caps as big as silver dollars.
I won't bother with goliaths. Either week or completely impotent.




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