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First year poppies. results and opium questions


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#1 gardenersnail

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Posted 17 July 2020 - 10:55 PM

--I am very sorry if this is in the wrong forum, I am still very new to posting here --

 

so I after coming across this site a year ago in my quest for pain relief I started growing.

it was a small experimental patch with a few varieties of poppies, mostly as a proof of concept before I dedicate my entire garden space to it.

I got pretty good results after playing around with soil and seeds, a good mix of a few different types of opium poppy to see what worked best in my climate and soil. some nice big heads and enough usable material for my next experiments into processing.

I'm starting basic and followed the instructions from sheepherder, Mr. Clean, samuraigecko, I was able to extract a nice big black ball of tar.

 

I had a bit of a unexpected result in that the purely water extraction came out as a rock hard lump while the 50/50 with alcohol came out as a gooey putty that refused to harden no matter how long I left it to dry, no Idea what caused that.

 

now heres the important bit. the endgame of this entire project was to make a 'smokeable opium'. long story short I cant take codeine orally as it causes me extreme stomach cramping and more pain than it gets rid of (see sphincter of oddi dysfunction for more info). unfortunately I dont seem to have succeeded leading to me making this thread.

 

while I did confirm that the product I came out with does indeed contain codeine and other opiates (and it was painful to make sure) I cant for the life of me get it to smoke correctly.

I am using a pretty nifty glass pipe I fashioned from a dab tube and a round bottom flask with a hole drilled into it. but the opium just seems to charcoal and while it does smoke I feel nothing from it. my main two theories is that Ive either cocked up the refinement process by missing a step or doing something wrong, or that im using too much heat (but its the only way I can get it to smoke at all)

some of what ive read their should be very little residue, but as ive said im getting charcoal (tried powdering the opium and having it in small balls), im I right in thinking this is bad?

as for the heating part of the process I am very confused, if heat destroys opiates then how can I smoke this?

I was hoping someone with experience in making smokeable opium could help me out. 

 

 

a further question mostly just to satisfy my curiosity, is there anyway to extract the opiates into vape liquid?? (propylene glycol) I am no chemist so no idea if its impossible but I cant find any reference to this even being attempted. what I did smoke didnt taste great (a bit nutty and harsh) and I really think it could improve the smoking experience.

 

really any help would be greatly appreciated 


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#2 YoshiTrainer

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 12:26 PM

I think opium burns at a higher temp than say MJ? Maybe try a torch lighter? I've never had good tasting opium, always harsh too. Besides milking we tried tea, maybe a possibility for you? Never tried using alcohol during extraction, just warm water and low temp evaporation. Good luck w/your pain management and be careful, this stuff can grab you and not want to let go!
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#3 wharfrat

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 09:08 PM

check out the vaults.. lots of info in there  :biggrin:  https://mycotopia.ne...pies-opium-etc/

 

 

oh, and yes, this is the correct forum to post in... thank you


Edited by wharfrat, 18 July 2020 - 09:09 PM.

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#4 gardenersnail

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Posted 19 July 2020 - 01:15 AM

check out the vaults.. lots of info in there  :biggrin:  https://mycotopia.ne...pies-opium-etc/

 

 

oh, and yes, this is the correct forum to post in... thank you

thank you Mr. Admin


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#5 gardenersnail

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Posted 19 July 2020 - 01:23 AM

I think opium burns at a higher temp than say MJ? Maybe try a torch lighter? I've never had good tasting opium, always harsh too. Besides milking we tried tea, maybe a possibility for you? Never tried using alcohol during extraction, just warm water and low temp evaporation. Good luck w/your pain management and be careful, this stuff can grab you and not want to let go!

 

from what I can tell the O is supposed to vaporise rather than actually burn which is why I think im not getting an effect from the smoke. I was actually using a kitchen caramelising torch but I think its heating it too high but while I can find a hundrad threads on how to make pipes they are all very aloof when it comes to actually smoking the stuff.

sadly tea is again orally taking the codeine and causes the same pain as eating or taking pills so its a no go. I'm really trying to find a way to bypass my stomach all together.

thank you for the advise though, I know it can be a slippery slope into addiction, and I appreciate your concern.


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#6 gardenersnail

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Posted 19 July 2020 - 01:38 AM

110341705_1176912625989238_2623261768591086371_n.jpg a picture of my setup for context



#7 coorsmikey

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Posted 19 July 2020 - 10:09 AM

Its been so long I don't remember which direction to go for smokable. The ph of the extraction makes a difference though meaning that slight acidic will result in a salt and slightly basic will end with a freebase. One is better for oral consumption and the other is better for vaping. I just don't remember what is what and there is a ton of info to sift through to get a refresher. That's one heck of a rabbit hole.


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#8 Coopdog

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Posted 19 July 2020 - 02:51 PM

You seem cautious enough, but I have to toss out a bit stronger of a warning, with a true life experience. My friend had a broken back, and she was on heavy meds for many years. Due to changing laws, her doc sent her to a pain management clinic. They UA'd her and found marijuana in her system and cut her off cold turkey from her meds. Needless to say she was in agony with nowhere to turn. I told her about opium tea with tons of warnings and cautionary tales as well. She was dead within a month. One cup too many, or a little stronger than she thought. It all varies by potency by quite a bit, and she had all the warnings in the world. Once she found a way to go about it she loved the stuff and raved about how much better she felt on the tea instead of the pharma meds. I was devastated and since then I don't recommend poppies to anyone. So there ya have it, and I will not inject anymore into your thread. Sure hoping you find a way that doesn't cause you addiction or the worser fate. Peace...


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#9 gardenersnail

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Posted 19 July 2020 - 09:07 PM

You seem cautious enough, but I have to toss out a bit stronger of a warning, with a true life experience. My friend had a broken back, and she was on heavy meds for many years. Due to changing laws, her doc sent her to a pain management clinic. They UA'd her and found marijuana in her system and cut her off cold turkey from her meds. Needless to say she was in agony with nowhere to turn. I told her about opium tea with tons of warnings and cautionary tales as well. She was dead within a month. One cup too many, or a little stronger than she thought. It all varies by potency by quite a bit, and she had all the warnings in the world. Once she found a way to go about it she loved the stuff and raved about how much better she felt on the tea instead of the pharma meds. I was devastated and since then I don't recommend poppies to anyone. So there ya have it, and I will not inject anymore into your thread. Sure hoping you find a way that doesn't cause you addiction or the worser fate. Peace...

thank you for the concern and I'm very sorry to hear about your friend. 


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#10 makinbones69

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Posted 21 July 2020 - 07:43 PM

With that disorder wouldn't a more powerful opiate be worse symptoms from sphincter of oddi as it also relaxed the muscles in the body more I'd say. Im curious why codeine would and other opiates wouldn't cause the contractions of the sphincter to the bile duct or whatever. Good luck man be safe!

#11 gardenersnail

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Posted 21 July 2020 - 11:23 PM

With that disorder wouldn't a more powerful opiate be worse symptoms from sphincter of oddi as it also relaxed the muscles in the body more I'd say. Im curious why codeine would and other opiates wouldn't cause the contractions of the sphincter to the bile duct or whatever. Good luck man be safe!

I really wish I had an answer for that too. thats just what the doctors current theory is because of the symptoms but I couldnt tell you if theyre right. all I know is taking intravenous morphine doesnt cause the pain but codeine tablets dose. might be something to do with it being absorbed so close to the duct but thats just a guess. everything would be so much easier if I could just drink poppy tea or if opium dens were still a thing but its a no go.



#12 makinbones69

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Posted 21 July 2020 - 11:30 PM

Interesting that's what I was wondering. So you've had experience with other opiods synthetic and natural that do not cause pain correct? If so proceed if u need to I fukn love heroin and dilauded man. But got away from it been damn three years now. I've relapsed probably 7 times in that period. But am finally seeing the light at the end I been clean the last1.5 years of the 3. Just be careful man it's a doozie.
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#13 makinbones69

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Posted 21 July 2020 - 11:31 PM

Maybe it's just synthetic opiods fuck with u if morphine or heroin doesnt
Also clean from opiates and methadone I mean. I still do other drugs all natural tho

Edited by makinbones69, 21 July 2020 - 11:37 PM.


#14 gardenersnail

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Posted 22 July 2020 - 10:45 PM

Maybe it's just synthetic opiods fuck with u if morphine or heroin doesnt
Also clean from opiates and methadone I mean. I still do other drugs all natural tho

it only used to happen sporadically when I was young when I took codeine, but after chemo it started happening every time, even now years later it still does. I did eat some of the tar I made and it caused the pain so I think its just something about codeine that doesnt like me, but I really have no way of knowing. I have considered heroin but its just not something I want to mess around with, I feel thats not a sustainable habit, not to mention It takes enough self control with just the milder effect of lesser opiods and I just dont trust myself with the hard stuff. I dont need to be knocked out like heroin would, I just need to get rid of the pain enough that I can function and most importantly sleep. a mix of benzos and Ibuprofen is the best Ive got, but I think a pipe of opium when need would be less risk and more effect



#15 pharmer

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Posted 23 July 2020 - 08:54 AM

Have you tried over the counter antihistamines for a sleep aid? works great for me and has the added benefit of synergizing with opi's. I use less opi's when paired with antihistamines and the relaxation effect of it makes sleep possible when a migraine might otherwise keep me awake.

 

I'm with you on the codiene vs. innards.  When it doesn't make my guts feel dead it makes pooping a rarity. Ergo, no codiene for me

 

If you talk with enough people about pain and how they manage it you'll see that there's just no hard and fast rule about what works for most people. Seems a personally tailored approach is what's right.

 

Back on topic: I grow poppies as well. Got a bumper crop of Gigantheums this year. The cool and wet start this spring treated the seeds and seedlings very well.


Edited by pharmer, 23 July 2020 - 10:13 AM.

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#16 terbium

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Posted 28 January 2021 - 02:43 PM

It is safer to work with pure alkaloid in that with pure material you can know exactly the dosage that you are using. With poppy tea it should be simple to isolate the pure alkaloids.

 

I like chlorpheniramine as a sleep aid, the antihistamines that are marketed as sleep aids I find distasteful.


Edited by terbium, 28 January 2021 - 03:08 PM.


#17 pharmer

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Posted 29 January 2021 - 10:36 AM

With that disorder wouldn't a more powerful opiate be worse symptoms from sphincter of oddi as it also relaxed the muscles in the body more I'd say. Im curious why codeine would and other opiates wouldn't cause the contractions of the sphincter to the bile duct or whatever. Good luck man be safe!

It's not what they do to your sphincter (really, how many times have you heard that one???)

 

It's what the opiates do to your guts. It inhibits proper function which has crud sitting around in your bowels much longer than they should.

 

I'll also guess that the tea acts as a diuretic as well. That would dry out your guts and cause those rabbit pellet like turds to form and not move much.


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#18 GORF

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Posted 29 January 2021 - 11:18 AM

Pharmaceutical companies have strived to increase Thebaine content in domestic varieties of poppies.

It is very useful in the production of oxy and other pill products using laboratory techniques. This breeding results in poppies that have very low codeine and morphine content.

Be aware of the genetics of your plants. The failure of your experiments most likely is due to these decades of breeding by Big Pharma

#19 makinbones69

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Posted 29 January 2021 - 11:55 AM

Well that makes a bunch of sense. Opiates always made me constipated but never sick like what the other member was describing. I can tell you I used to drink miralax powder with coffee every morning while I was on benders and it helps alot. So go get u some mira lax and give it a try.




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