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What the hell is going on with my tubs!?!?!?!?


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#1 FunG

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Posted 31 July 2020 - 11:32 PM

Well, the time is upon me. Disgruntled and grey haired fung is all but about to admit defeat.

I recently spawned two bins of golden teachers, spawn was healthy and there was no crazy viri infecting the cultures so I know it's not my spawn but for some damn reason I cannot for the life of me get my tubs to fruit.

The temperature inside probably succeeds 80f which I read is known to be problematic for p.cubensis but I've never had them be this finicky about their fruiting temps.

I guess my last resort is to make true monotubs with the holes and see If that cuts down on the inner temps enough to get a fruiting crop. Heres a tub of gt's that's pinning but not looking very healthy.

My question is this, is there anyone else experiencing the same problem as me do to temps? Or do people think its something completely different on my hands? I know my source of spores are clean and the spawn was defiantly clean as well but this leads me to believe that my crazy b+ may not be infected with a viri after all.



Rargh! Fung needs answers! Desperately. Any and all help would be greatly appreciated, I have 6more liters of gt on wbs and 10L of gwm on wbs ready to go but I dont want to spawn them until I know what the issue is.....it was plenty hot inside my tubs during my most recent crops and they all pulled threw, so what's causing this?

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#2 Alpoehi

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Posted 01 August 2020 - 07:18 AM

The product of my guesswork is: Your tub is by far too dry. I would skip all FAE concerns, place an ultrasonic mist maker into it until there are at least some waterdrops visible on surface of the sub.

You can also give an icepad from the freezer into it when misting. I haven't tried that but I read in a forum the chilled air from the icepad stimulates growth.

And keep the lid closed. Open it frequently for fresh air exchange.
Evaporating water is cooling down a bit so give it water to evaporate.

I had the same. All pinning nothing growing. The core of the sub has gotten too dry. I skipped my last grow for that reason. IMO the best way to handle here is dunking it, but who wants to dunk when it already has started pinning? For that reason, never let it get too dry from the very beginning, misting frequently. Summer months are challenging.

Btw I skipped growing in the summer, due to extensive heat.
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#3 roc

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Posted 01 August 2020 - 07:19 AM

Substrate material?

 

I've found 80 to be problematic and like that 70ish range. Crazy fast colonization at 80 but a hell of a time with fruiting due to what I believe to be stress and the possible introduction and beginning of bacterial contamination. High temps in the fruiting stage tend to dry things out.

 

This one is a hard call!


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#4 roc

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Posted 01 August 2020 - 07:23 AM

Great advice Alpoehi!

 

We posted within seconds of each other and I couldn't agree with you more.

 

I'm lucky enough to have a 73 - 75 temp in my spare bedroom during the summer months so I don't face the high temp challenge you mention.



#5 Alpoehi

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Posted 01 August 2020 - 07:24 AM

Ha! That was synchonicity.
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#6 sandman

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Posted 01 August 2020 - 10:47 AM

Its looking like verticillium dry bubble disease Lecanicillium fungicola. Your grow room is probably saturated with the spores after having an infected grow and it is now plaguing you.

 

It is a persistent contamination and the spores are sticky and last for many months hibernating.

 

Your substrate could just be perpetually infected by the room air.

 

It spreads via spore prints from contaminated caps all across the OMC.

 

The caps are where the organism goes into sporulation mode so prints are a major spread on the OMC.

 

This has crippled million dollar commercial farms across the world. It's serious problem.


Edited by sandman, 01 August 2020 - 10:56 AM.

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#7 FunG

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Posted 01 August 2020 - 11:03 AM

Well then.... that would explain why my grows are going to hell.....

But I grew in the summer fine before.....it must be this apt, i get the sun all day and at night you can feel the heat from the day sinking into the apt.

Another reason for me to despise summer!

Thank you all for putting my poor tormented mind at ease....the reassurance is what I needed.

I'm sure if i make up some monotubs and allow for more f.a.e it will greatly lower the inner temperature of the tub since the heat generated by the mycelium is enough to send it over the edge I'm finding.

Where would I be without you people, thank you again.
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#8 TVCasualty

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Posted 01 August 2020 - 11:59 AM

 

 

This has crippled million dollar commercial farms across the world. It's serious problem.

 

Whoa, this is news to me. Bad news.

 

Have the commercial operations come up with any protocols or ways of dealing with it that seem to work, or at least help keep it in check?


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#9 FunG

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Posted 01 August 2020 - 12:51 PM

I doubt it is vert but thank you sandman.... the temperature is beyond what it should be for p.cubensis, way beyond...so much so I cannot stop the mycelium from growing, it's like its stuck in constant vegetative growth more so then exhibiting the condition you outlined for me.

But if it is vert, then damn macgyver and such cause he was having "problems" with his grow all the way up to his sudden disappearance.....only way vert could have entered my OP threw a viri infected b+ but if I recall my b+ spawn was heavily infected with yeast...so I too doubt that I came in contact with such a disease....

Chalking it up to excess heat and not enough f.a.e

I was using unmodified tubs with the seran wrap cover and just by sticking my hand in I could feel "hot" humid air abit more so then I recall in previous summer grows.

#10 Alpoehi

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Posted 01 August 2020 - 01:36 PM

I just have moved to an apt like this. 80 deg all over the place. Just spawned a growbag with pan myc under these conditions. The heat is causing the myc to grow fast and the growbag is warming up.
It's only a matter of time and I may have bacteria or yeast in it. Or the myc remains so healthy that it can defend itself. But in that temp, I doubt it.
When you have trouble for a longer period of time and all of your grows will not fruit properly, sandman is probably right. At least he pointed out another contamination source.
The last grow I discarded, and the one before I dunked when the pins stopped developing. I dunked for 1 hour only, just to see if some fruits grow to full size and how they would look like. Out of it came two clusters of perfect BHT.
Worth the effort, the rest I tossed.
Damn heat, it was a clone I put much work into it.
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#11 FunG

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Posted 02 August 2020 - 03:57 AM

That's one thing I'm fortunate enough not to encountered with the high temps is bacteria. Substrates are all fully colonized bricks that smell of fresh mushrooms but the surface temperature has been sitting well above 80f....probably averaging anywhere from 90-100f which is just reaking havoc on the cube. Specifically golden teacher and possibly the b+. I do recall growing gwm under near and very close to the same temps just before summer hit and they pulled threw. Maybe they can handle the high temps better then gt and b+.

Well, I've got my work cutt out for me. Time to align the holes and cutt them out and get a real monotub going....that's also something I've been doing different during winter is not modifying the tubs for f.a.e and in my previous summer grows I had holes for f.a.e.

I'm such a moron for not thinking this one threw but it's still a learning curve and a new one to me.

#12 Dabluebonic

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Posted 04 August 2020 - 06:38 AM

Having the same issues fung. My tub has been colonized for days but the surface moisture seems to keep it from knotting. Im going to crack the lid on my unmodified tub a bit more to maybe encourage more surface evaporation.

Im gonna guess shifting the lid around when RH is fluctuating will correct the issues im having. I literally had pools of water on my substrate!

Edit: super stoned when i didn't read the while thread, but my tub is HOT when i go to fan it. Maybe thats another reason im not seeing any action. Time will tell

Edited by Dabluebonic, 04 August 2020 - 06:43 AM.


#13 PJammer24

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Posted 04 August 2020 - 09:47 AM

Since you had issues with a previous grow, I don't think this is the case, but I often suspect poor fruiting genetics in situations like these...

 

How did you come up with your virus theory for the last grow? What is this based on? It seems unlikely but not impossible.

 

I prefer to fruit between 68f and 72f... In the summer, sometimes temperatures increase to75f but i try to stay at 75f or less...

 

Trying a dunk is not a bad idea. If you are getting pins that are not maturing or very few pins, water in combination with heat that is not well suited to fruiting could also play a role.

 

Mushrooms are grown in a dynamic system... It is often a combination of factors that lead to a specific reaction... Too much FAE resulting in dry substrate as an example... If the heat is around 80f and that was the only issue, it would likely be fruiting with them stretching and reaching maturity more quickly. There is often more than one thing going on in situations like this...

 

While vert does not stand out to me as a possible cause, I have learned over the years that sandman typically knows what he is talking about and not to write off his comments.


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#14 FunG

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Posted 04 August 2020 - 11:42 AM

The heat was well beyond 80f cause I had no holes for f.a.e . Worked great during the winter but as soon as mid june-july hit I began having these issues. There was no issues before then and the b+ i grew that i suspect may have contained the vert were said to me by the sender that it contained a viri infection causing mutations..... but i dont know if that's true myself cause i never heard of viruses passing threw into the spores themselves. Plus the spawn was contaminated by yeast but it still fruited but i suspect that may and only could have been anytime vert would be introduced into my habitat.

If i only had a thermometer inside the bins that cooked on me I'd be able to give a precise temp but it was very hot to the skin. Defiantly not a favorable temperature for mycelium.

I just carved out holes into two bins, I'm going to be spawning 10L of wbs between the two and its G.W.M they seem to handle higher temperatures alot better then the gt and b+. It wont take long to see the results.... hopefully this works.

#15 TVCasualty

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Posted 05 August 2020 - 03:35 PM

Edit: super stoned when i didn't read the while thread, but my tub is HOT when i go to fan it. Maybe thats another reason im not seeing any action. Time will tell

 

How does it smell?

 

Noticeably-hot subs tend to be contaminated with bacteria. The "aroma" of bacterial contamination will not be subtle, so don't go sticking your nose right up to it.



#16 FunG

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Posted 07 August 2020 - 08:17 AM

So cutting out some holes seems to have greatly helped the surviving pins.... had I not cutt out the holes I doubt any of these would have matured.

20200807_090838.jpg

The substrate was already pretty much f'ed by the time my common sense took hold so I wasnt expecting much but it seems to have resolved the heat issue. I started two more tubs of g.w.m with holes in them. I'll post updates to this thread as things happen.

Maybe unmodified tubs are a bad idea for people in high temp climates.
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#17 ElPirana

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Posted 07 August 2020 - 10:20 AM

Glad to hear your making some progress on this. All the failures can be discouraging for sure.
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#18 FunG

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Posted 10 August 2020 - 11:49 AM

So excellent news! The outside temperature is 29c and the hottest it got in July was 35c so the temps are up there but the good news is they're down inside my bins since I cutt holes and applied my preferred filter material micropore tape.

Heres the bins of g.w.m covered by seran wrap (holding in the humidity pretty well by the looks of it)

20200810_122950.jpg

And heres a peak of the inside, no sign of vert so I can rule that out as of now.

Tub A
20200810_122921.jpg

Tub B
20200810_122745.jpg

So far, so good. Both those bins were spawned exactly 7 days ago so if all goes well I'll be expecting the gwm to pin in the next 7 to 10 days and be mature in 14-21days from there.

It's actually taking me longer to fruit p.cubensis then it is to run a jar of spawn which is pretty weird. But my cuboard probably gets to 85f on the hot days so that explains that.

Another observation that I've made on my end is that the myc does not appear to be as aggressive as it did when the temps were super high.....you want aggressive myc but not the kind that over colonizes itself.....anyone seen what I'm talking about before? I believe it is overlay, I'm 90% certain it is what was happening due to the high heat.

Peace people, what's a mushroom ring without a OP? Lol
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#19 PJammer24

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Posted 10 August 2020 - 12:17 PM

overlay only occurs with strains that require a casing layer... Overlay is not simply any thickening of the myc.. Many people do not have a clue about overlay and will say that it is occuring when it is not. There will be a thickening to the point that water will not penetrate and often the myc will begin to yellow... It is very uncommon with cubes and many will say that it does not happen. After over a decade, I have not experienced anything that I would consider true overlay. Some genetics and conditions have caused thicker mycelium but it has never progressed to the point of yellowing or completely locking out water...

 

if you find credible sources online, you will see that overlay is limited to strains that require casing.

 

From a thread on shroomery... This is also what Roger Rabbit has been saying for years and he is a more credible source than myself:

"Overlay happens to casing layers in certain species not including cubensis but rather species that actually require a casing layer "

 

here is a quote from Roger Rabbit himself:

"If the mycelium is dead and matted, no.  However, overlay is extremely rare, especially with cubensis.  999 times out of a thousand around here, full colonization is confused with overlay.
- RR"

 

He is about as knowledgeable as anyone on the OMC...

 

overlay typically occurs when you are using a nutritious casing layer. Casing layers should be non-nutritious. It will also happen when your casing layer is too dry... Again, this is with strains that require a casing layer... Even with those strains, it is rare, with cubensis even more rare.


Edited by PJammer24, 10 August 2020 - 12:19 PM.

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#20 Alpoehi

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Posted 10 August 2020 - 12:22 PM

Good to see that FunG. Looks balanced to me.

I still have a growbag with pan myc and I hung it on a screw into my cabinet.

It's 85f and I don't want to place it on a wooden plate.

One has to be creative in the heat.






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