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What the hell is going on with my tubs!?!?!?!?


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#21 FunG

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Posted 10 August 2020 - 01:20 PM

Pjammer, it's my fault for not mentioning it but the myc was discoloring yellow around the edges in the bins I had to pitch. It was overlay man, any bin that sits roasting hot at like 105f will develop it as I found out.

It makes sense that heat will generate from mycelium itself (cant remember how much) but the ambient heat generated by the fungi added into the external temps was just at my best guess enough to cause overlay. So to say it's rare would be correct cause I was having a wicked run at p.cubensis up until the temperature inside became so outrageously intolerable that it felt like a inferno. I really wish I had bought a thermometer to have taken a temp check cause then we could have established at which temp overlay occurs in cubensis.

And thanks alpoehi, I got the holes pretty much exactly aligned with one another without using a tape measure to make Mark's lol

Isnt 85f the max for pan myc before it dies? I thought they fruited between 70f-80f and just a degree below or above would cause them problems? Is this incorrect alpoehi?

#22 Alpoehi

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Posted 10 August 2020 - 01:44 PM

...

And thanks alpoehi, I got the holes pretty much exactly aligned with one another without using a tape measure to make Mark's lol

Isnt 85f the max for pan myc before it dies? I thought they fruited between 70f-80f and just a degree below or above would cause them problems? Is this incorrect alpoehi?

 

The pan is doing fine - it's Panaeolus Cyanescens Hawaii. It's also showing vigorous growth, now climbing alongside the plastic of the growbag upwards.

But when I want it to fruit I have to spawn a casing with a substrate that is not made from grain lol never did that before.

Yesterday I read a note from Asura that Pans will not fruit well when kept on grain only.

 

Actually I only wanted to test the spore syringe, now two months later this ... will post some pictures maybe even here in this thread bec of the heat ... it's hungry and the casing needs to be done soon.

It encourages me to continue with growing some stuff even under those conditions.


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#23 FunG

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Posted 12 August 2020 - 05:42 PM

Update

Its day 7 and the g.w.m is as colonized as it should get. If I take note of any vert growing I'll be sure to post a picture of it but so far everything looks to be in the clear. The mycelium is no longer in a frenzy trying to climb the walls and what not....

Temps are also way down.

I can safely say we can rule out vert and macgyver lives to see another day lol poor guy took blame for something he didnt even expose me to.

So I still say the growth I had was overlay due to the temperature and no f.a.e

I'll post more pictures as the g.w.m fruit I also have a golden teacher bin that's exhibiting no signs of vert and the growth looks very normal compared to the frenzy myc I was getting before cutting the holes.

Time will tell us if I was incorrect my friends.....the count down is on!

#24 FunG

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Posted 15 August 2020 - 11:38 AM

So I've gotten a bit of the questionable growth in my golden teacher bin (again) it appears to me to be the start of overlay......although not near as bad as before I cutt holes for f.a.e and to drop the temps.....

If anyone can tell me if this is disconcerning mycelium development for golden teachers I'd love to know. The myc is pure white, no yellow discoloration but it appears to be denser and more fluffy then say rhizmphoric mycelium which surrounds it, know what I mean?

Heres a couple pics of the gt bin it's on day 7
20200815_122103.jpg
20200815_122051.jpg

So is this type of myc a common characteristic of golden teachers as part of its genetic traits or a sign that my tub needs more f.a.e and lower temps? Cause the albinos or g.w.m do not have the same kind of mycelium development happening..... very different growth.....

Am I being paranoid?

#25 roc

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Posted 15 August 2020 - 12:37 PM

This is a strange one!

 

Back off misting considerably and see if evaporation triggers pinning.


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#26 FunG

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Posted 15 August 2020 - 12:48 PM

I havnt been misting....

Think I should remove the micropore tape to allow for more evaporation and airflow?

Is this type of growth common to substrates when the r.h is to high is what I'm also wondering....but the g.w.m are in the same conditions but are not developing overly dense mycelium like that in the gt tub.

Someone has to have experienced this before....I'm pretty sure I had patches in prior bins of this growth but they fruited fine, this is just more sizable then previous tubs I did....so I dunno what to expect or why it's happening.

As long as it's not vert that's the most important thing.

#27 Alpoehi

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Posted 15 August 2020 - 02:13 PM

Your GT's look strange indeed. When they continue growing into something like on the pic below left, it's too much water. The myc will protect itself from overwatering growing into sponge-like tissue absorbing large amounts of it.

That's what I had with my Ban Hua Thai a couplpe of months ago, but it does not make sense to me comparing behavior of myc in different strains.

And to add into the discussion about overlaying. It think it's not overlaying what I show here. Just too much water, in this particular case.2174e38d5958bd4678452ca6396c7b9d.jpg
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#28 FunG

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Posted 15 August 2020 - 02:32 PM

That is near identical to the myc forming on the gt tub, Thank you alpoehi.

Did it still fruit or does it cause problems? Cause I have no problem picking it off the surface if it comes down to it.
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#29 Arathu

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Posted 15 August 2020 - 02:41 PM

 

Cause I have no problem picking it off the surface if it comes down to it.

Hell if you do that try nocking up another sub with the mycelium you pull off the surface....

 

Subs of mine that did that I would usually case with something or other...coir....potting soil/verm....and etc...

 

I always tried to keep quart jars of sterilized casing mixes around for just such purposes.....

 

Sterilize at field capacity and store for when needed........

 

Hard overlay tubs and trays, if/when they pin, it's from the edges and sides.... IME

 

A


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#30 Alpoehi

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Posted 15 August 2020 - 02:47 PM

That is near identical to the myc forming on the gt tub, Thank you alpoehi.

Did it still fruit or does it cause problems? Cause I have no problem picking it off the surface if it comes down to it.

 

With this one I stopped moisturing and I got some yield.

But I think this strain in particular, that shows very agressive rhizo myc, it turns into this metastasis state when the growing conditions are not right.

In this case too wet. I cut some off with a knife it goes deep into the casing/cake. Makes no sense removing it.

I grew it 4 times and in all grows I had that problem. Even after I isolated and cleaned the whole thing in petrie work.

Could be also the genetics involved in that problem.


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#31 Arathu

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Posted 15 August 2020 - 02:59 PM

Agreed.....could very well be genetics.......if I remember correctly the fruits I did get were low in number but large in size...

 

I've seen B+ and GT do the same thing in tubs and on cakes......

 

These are really good candidates for moves to outside beds too....they will, in many cases, produce boomers outside.....

 

A


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#32 roc

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Posted 15 August 2020 - 03:11 PM

I agree that it could be genetics.

 

I would allow for more air exchange and hope that the evaporation from the substrate does trigger fruiting.


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#33 FunG

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Posted 16 August 2020 - 10:59 AM

Alphoehi, I added vermiculite into the coir after I pasteurized and drained it to absorb any excess water. I'm thinking if it was excess water then the g.w.m would both be showing the same signs (the b+ I did just prior to the gt's had the exact same condition) and all my bulk prep has been done similar in previous successful grows. This type of mycelium has only been a issue since just before the start of July and has only been a issue with gt and b+ at this point... once the g.w.m finish I'll be doing all albino's from now on until winter I figure. I am going to scratch the surface with a sterilized fork just at surface level and try to pull off as much of the excess myc as possible....the myc itself when torn off gives off a over powering mushroom smell so I hope this isnt a huge problem and the scratch is a fix.

Arathu and roc, I was thinking it could be genetics too but it's to odd that it wasnt a major issue in previous grows. And if burying them outside was a option I'd do it but I'm stuck in a concrete jungle.

I ment to post this last night, imma go ahead and see how much excess myc I can tear off the surface and hopefully the underlining mycelium can fruit.

Thank you all for the answers so far
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#34 FunG

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Posted 17 August 2020 - 01:33 PM

One of the g.w.m tubs has its first pin 12days in....two days early.

I cant wait to harvest spores for prints as this cubensis is going to go into mass production to make up for the gt's wbs b+'s temperature requirements. I wish I had thought about them earlier and it goes to show not all cubensis are equal as far as fruiting parameters are concerned.

I'm happier then a cube in horse dung that the albinos are pulling threw, cheers everyone.
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#35 Dabluebonic

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Posted 18 August 2020 - 10:03 PM

Your GT's look strange indeed. When they continue growing into something like on the pic below left, it's too much water. The myc will protect itself from overwatering growing into sponge-like tissue absorbing large amounts of it.

That's what I had with my Ban Hua Thai a couplpe of months ago, but it does not make sense to me comparing behavior of myc in different strains.

And to add into the discussion about overlaying. It think it's not overlaying what I show here. Just too much water, in this particular case.2174e38d5958bd4678452ca6396c7b9d.jpg


This information is gold. I've seen it in my last grow when the surface was too wet. The myc kind of bubbles out.
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#36 Alpoehi

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Posted 19 August 2020 - 05:16 AM

Alphoehi, I added vermiculite into the coir after I pasteurized and drained it to absorb any excess water. I'm thinking if it was excess water then the g.w.m would both be showing the same signs (the b+ I did just prior to the gt's had the exact same condition) and all my bulk prep has been done similar in previous successful grows. This type of mycelium has only been a issue since just before the start of July and has only been a issue with gt and b+ at this point... once the g.w.m finish I'll be doing all albino's from now on until winter I figure. I am going to scratch the surface with a sterilized fork just at surface level and try to pull off as much of the excess myc as possible....the myc itself when torn off gives off a over powering mushroom smell so I hope this isnt a huge problem and the scratch is a fix.

Arathu and roc, I was thinking it could be genetics too but it's to odd that it wasnt a major issue in previous grows. And if burying them outside was a option I'd do it but I'm stuck in a concrete jungle.

I ment to post this last night, imma go ahead and see how much excess myc I can tear off the surface and hopefully the underlining mycelium can fruit.

Thank you all for the answers so far

 

Adding verm is a good idea. Remember my pan grow I told of earlier?

I cased it with 3 pt. verm, 5 pt. straw pellets (dry), and 4 pt. horsepoop pellets (dry). 

The straw and the verm can hold a lot of water and I could get the right field capacity with it. I started with 3 ltr dry and added 4.5 ltr (!!!) water to it then pasteurizing 185 f for 3 hours.

So there is a lot of moisture in the substrate but not a single drop of water appearing (except some condensing water on the lid after casing).

 

But ... I got access to a place for it in the basement where it is exactly 70 f.

 

What I found out there are genetics that react very strangely to excess water. In particular when the myc comes into contact with liquid water, be it the one on the bottom, as I always have some water there in my fruiting chamber, and the pic shows excess myc growth when it came into direct contact with the water.

 

And also it happened that I got a spore syringe of Ban Hua Thai having genetics that react sensitive to these circumstances.

But the BHT I experienced the strangest trips with I ever had. I had visuals with BHT the only reference to is some trip reports I read about pans.

That's why I started a pan grow in the first place.


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#37 FunG

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Posted 19 August 2020 - 08:08 PM

I think you are correct about it being excess water alpoehi.

When I gently dragged the fork across the surface I realized how much pooling water was under that mess of mycelium. I had to absorb it with a bunch of paper towels.... it's just so damn odd that it just randomly became a problem when all my bulk prep was done exactly the same prior to this abnormal growth.

What I noticed about the g.w.m the surface of one of the tubs was submerged in water much like the gt tub but the gwm doesnt produce that funky mycelium, instead it can produce mushrooms while submerged, pretty neat.

So yea, I've had to pat dry the substrates of pools of water but I repeat how can it be a problem now when it wasnt earlier....it just doesnt make sense.

Hopefully my golden teacher tub recovers fine (I didnt dig the fork into the substrate, just lightly scraped the surface) so it wouldn't be considered a "deep scratch". It smelt like some potent mushrooms afterwards and looks alright.... I'll post a picture in 72 hours after I see some recovery, I just very well may have saved my golden teacher project from the dumpster *fingers crossed* and if it does work then there is a fix :)

Thank you alpoehi and everyone for keeping me in good spirits with the helpful advice, I wish you all good karma points cause I gotta tell ya's, I just about threw the gt bin out the 3rd floor window lol
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#38 Alpoehi

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Posted 20 August 2020 - 08:00 AM

Good Luck FunG.

No one wants to experience this anymore, anybody?

mycel.JPG

 

Here I made a cut. I could press the cut off piece and water dropped out, like from a sponge.

It turned into blue color and smelled like normal myc.

I shortly thought I had grown some psychedelic truffels or so .. then I threw the whole thing in the bin. This one did not fruit at all.

It was the time I soldered my first ultrasonic mist maker.

I had overdone it a little with it ...

 

cut.JPG

lolololol  :biggrin:

 


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#39 FunG

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Posted 20 August 2020 - 01:50 PM

You've been a great help alpoehi, thanks again. But I still have questions, what would suddenly cause this growth with my bulk prep all of the sudden? I know it's to much water but I didnt have this problem until recently, all past grows were successful and for this growth to just start happening one day is just odd, surley there must be more to it then just to much water..... the r.h is normal for self humidified monotubs but what else could there be other then temperatures but even then it's been much cooler then the tubs I had go south due to the same abnormal growth but during a heat wave......

Anyone care to throw in their two cents on additional factors causing this wonky mycelium?

#40 Alpoehi

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Posted 20 August 2020 - 02:34 PM

Well, I thought it could have been bacterial contamination. The first BHT grow I ever did had it. The 2nd had yellow secretions.
All done with MS inoculation from the same spore syringe.

The third that I have shown the picture of with the bubbles on the lower left I grew from a tissue sample I cleaned up in petrie work but it still showed unregular growth but not to such an extent.

Could be genetics involved in that particular strain, or bacterial contamination of spore syringe ...

What I still am asking myself: Could it have been wet bubbling? That's still an option to me.


Edited by Alpoehi, 20 August 2020 - 02:40 PM.

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