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Pressure cookers and Grain question


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#21 rockyfungus

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Posted 28 August 2020 - 08:58 PM

We're getting off topic.

 

It has it's place, sorry for my hyperbole. I'm fond instant dry yeast for my pizza. Really cool that they were able to "domesticate" yeast and package it with different coatings. IDY vs ADY etc.


Edited by rockyfungus, 28 August 2020 - 08:59 PM.

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#22 LIFELESSDEAD

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Posted 03 September 2020 - 05:55 AM

Just want to add and ask of my own concern as well. I'm totally new to this but decided to start with my instapot. So far I've made a ton of agar with no contams and also some grainspaw, again with no contamination i can tell. Not sure if I made it right (moisture content)
My added question would be, is there bacteria that takes a longer time to grow as I do have agar and grainspawn that's been sitting for at least a month and it still looks the same the day I made it. Even though it was only made to 12psi

#23 FunG

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Posted 03 September 2020 - 07:11 AM

At 12psi the jar will be under vaccume....once the seal is cracked or the tinfoil removed then gas exchange will begin to occur and that's when bacteria will germinate if theres any active capsids remaining.

You can seal a jar at 12psi and have it look fine but like I just said, you'll only know if its successful once you initiate gas and fresh air exchange so that the microorganisms can begin germinating.

#24 LIFELESSDEAD

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Posted 03 September 2020 - 08:20 PM

Oh, I see. Well ok I do have fae filters on these jars so technically they have been getting air right?
Also bad news, my left over agar that's been sitting is developing mold, but the ketchup cups I poured a are still good. Do those cups prevent that air exchange?

#25 FunG

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Posted 03 September 2020 - 08:43 PM

Have you removed the tinfoil from the jars? Cause it usually gets vacuumed to the jar preventing f.a.e and gas exchange....so if you left the tinfoil on then I wouldn't worry about anything being able to germinate, it's still under vaccume.

I'm not sure about the cups you're talking about, do they have snap on lids?

#26 LIFELESSDEAD

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Posted 03 September 2020 - 11:19 PM

No but the foil is on kinda loose.
The ketchup cups do have snap on lids. I do have mycelium growth as well in the cups I'm working on.

#27 rockyfungus

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Posted 05 September 2020 - 05:20 PM

I've never had issues with agar, grain, LC, any sterilization with an Instant Pot at 12psi. Just chuck an extra 30 minutes on to be safe. I do grains at the max time which is typically 2 hours.

I even used to instant pot without venting and now to be a bit safer I'll vent for 10 minutes before I put the weight on.

I've switched to a real PC, but the Instant Pot is my favorite because you don't have to watch it. Just can't fit anything in it.

Instant pot is great for agar, and sterilizing syringes, bags and jars get questionable to fit, but had plenty great flushes of gourmet and cubes with it.


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#28 TVCasualty

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Posted 05 September 2020 - 05:33 PM

At 12psi the jar will be under vaccume....once the seal is cracked or the tinfoil removed then gas exchange will begin to occur and that's when bacteria will germinate if theres any active capsids remaining.

You can seal a jar at 12psi and have it look fine but like I just said, you'll only know if its successful once you initiate gas and fresh air exchange so that the microorganisms can begin germinating.

 

Huh?

 

 What do you mean by "under vacuum?"

 

And by "capsids" do you mean endospores?


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#29 FunG

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Posted 05 September 2020 - 07:02 PM

The tinfoil is usually suctioned right into the lid of the jar creating a airtight seal over the filter patch....atleast mine do. Then a vapour lock on the jar lid is when it's under vaccume, that's why I crack my lids open a notch.

Endospores/capsids

Yes

#30 PJammer24

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Posted 05 September 2020 - 10:39 PM

At 12psi the jar will be under vaccume....once the seal is cracked or the tinfoil removed then gas exchange will begin to occur and that's when bacteria will germinate if theres any active capsids remaining.

You can seal a jar at 12psi and have it look fine but like I just said, you'll only know if its successful once you initiate gas and fresh air exchange so that the microorganisms can begin germinating.


Huh?

What do you mean by "under vacuum?"

And by "capsids" do you mean endospores?

I second...

Hunh?

I have never had a spawn jar create a vacuum where the foil sucks down... in fact, the foil typically falls off more easily than I would prefer...

No clue what you’re talking about, please explain... I’m genuinely interested to understand what you think you’re talking about...
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#31 LIFELESSDEAD

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Posted 05 September 2020 - 10:53 PM

Has anyone tried using the yogurt setting on a instapot to pasturize subsrate?

#32 FunG

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Posted 06 September 2020 - 05:24 AM

Pjammer

The tinfoil after a pressure cooking cycle at 15psi should not fall off the jar, it shrinks to the jar creating a airtight seal.

If it's still lose on the jar then I doubt your PC's are operating at 15psi but you guys use popcorn spawn, do you not?

#33 peacefrog

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Posted 06 September 2020 - 05:37 AM

I have never seen that either personally. Agar, grain jars always have loose foil after sterilization. Comes off pretty easily once I am ready to spawn/inoculate with one hand.

The foil is only there to protect the moisture content of your substrate. If not using modified lids, there is really no need to use foil (but I always do just out of habit). Especially if the jars are way above the water line.

And the foil does not “create an air tight seal”. I have personally used 2 layers of foil only before cause I had no lids and was too lazy to get my [email protected]$ to the store lol. And there was never a tight seal.

My 2 pennies.

Edited by peacefrog, 06 September 2020 - 05:47 AM.


#34 FunG

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Posted 06 September 2020 - 08:52 AM

Maybe it's the brand of tinfoil I'm using but yea, it defiantly shrinks to the jar/lid to form a airtight seal or else my grain jars wouldn't last as long as they do.

And the jars being under vaccume is what happens when they get vapor locked. I innoc threw the filter port in my jar lids and most of the time there is a hiss and quick pull on the plunger when it almost sucks the plunger in..... its brief but the same thing happens to lc's under vaccume....they'll suck a entire syringe in....so yea, properly made jars will be under vaccume and tinfoil for me really does shrink up to the jar and stays tight in a fixed position...

No clue why no one else experiences this....there is some cheap tinfoil that's super flimsy that doesnt seal well onto the lid, I had jars go dry waiting to he innoc'd once when using that specific brand that's why buy the expensive stuff. But yea, the foil should not be coming out loose on the jars, if it is, something is wrong.

#35 TVCasualty

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Posted 06 September 2020 - 10:47 AM

Your experience with foil on jars is unique.

 

Even with brand-new lids with intact rubber seals I'd get jars that wouldn't seal and form a vacuum (when I was making preserves).

 

LC's are notorious for sucking out all the contents of a syringe, but they only form a vacuum if PC'd with the lids on with the rubber side down (and even then they don't always seal). BRF jars would only do that if PC'd with rubber side down too, which is why they're supposed to be up in that case as forming a vacuum in a BRF jar is best avoided.

 

And what does "vapor locked" mean?



#36 peacefrog

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Posted 06 September 2020 - 11:04 AM

Perhaps you could post a pic of this situation?

What brand of foil do you use? If it truly does “seal” a jar air tight then this company is missing out a great opportunity to put the canning lid industry out of business lol.

But yea, the foil should not be coming out loose on the jars, if it is, something is wrong.

What went wrong? If something went wrong how come countless cultivators have grown countless flushes of mushrooms when the foil comes off loosely?

#37 FLASHINGROOSTER

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Posted 06 September 2020 - 12:55 PM

My only experience with a vacuum would be with a liquid culture. One plastic lid sealed with a rubber gasket and using .22 micron filter and rubber injection port had enough of a vacuum to form an indent in the middle. Nothing to do with the foil however

 

Show us a picture


Edited by flashingrooster, 06 September 2020 - 01:00 PM.





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