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Excelsior's Grow Log (the First)


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#21 FunG

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Posted 18 September 2020 - 09:06 AM

And do you have a picture of your spore prints coorsmikey? Cause I somehow doubt you would actually be collecting anything worth while in a sealed environment since caps are known to hold onto the spore load when the humidity is to high and there for f.a.e is required.

If you're printing in a sab then you still have f.a.e from the wide gaping holes.

I'm going to be taking some gt spore prints in the next 5 or 6 days and I'd be more then happy to show the difference between caps left to drop in a sealed container opposite of the ones with the lid cracked open.

I just went threw hell trying to get g.w.m to print something worth while of collecting and leaving the lid sealed was the issue.

The guy who taught me about printing was also responsible for aiding fsre while it was active and he knew his p.cubensis as well as cultivated azures so he did know his stuff. Spores drop better then others and temps+r.h+f.a.e were all factors he said and after toiling with the g.w.m I agree with what I was taught cause I wouldn't have got prints if I didn't take those environmental viarbles into accountability.

And you dont need to print inside of a glovebox, I get perfectly clean prints while doing the work in open. I've sent enough out and no ones chewed my head off yet about bacteria or viruses and when I say a bunch I mean I use to be a supporter and contributor to both the fsr's until whatever the fack happened to them, happened. Lost contact with them....but I'd love to get ahold of Anand so he could either come set me straight about what he said or a whole lot of others. He'd know the exact temp/r.h/f.a.e requirements for getting stubborn p.cubensis to drop.

I think I'm a little more active cultivating then some on here, the fun around here never stops so I make alot of observations about p.cubensis specifically.

#22 xlcor

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Posted 18 September 2020 - 09:59 AM

This is why PJ always calls you out! Where do you come up with this stuff? I do spore prints in a sealed environments  flawlessly. So have many other experienced folks. Seriously where you get your info that you regurgitate like its the one word of god?  Sorry to call you out like this but you should consider how your posts come across to people with actual experience. Maybe the newbs believe you. Please word your posts a lil differently like including IMO or "What I read and interpreted". If you can't say things that align with true unadulterated experience then back it up with citing stuff that actually jives. That Meth stuff will mess you up in ways you don't realize until the damage is done. It will make you think things are real that are not.

 

 

I try and just let thing ride as I know most folk can just see right through what your posting and hopefully learn from you that meth is bad! Stop posting misinformation.

 

There's two ways to arrive at a good, decisive conclusion: experimentation and/or good speculation based on good information. As a total beginner myself, I'm obviously not fit to say what the state of information is in our hobby, but if anyone could point me to a source regarding the necessity of a glovebox for spore printing then I'd be obliged. My greatest concern is controlling sterility, and that's the appeal of a glovebox. FunG's concern is the trade-off of air flow/circulation for sterility in terms of maximizing the quantity of spore dropping. Without decisive experimentation, his information is as good as anyone else's, and I don't see anything obviously wrong with his speculation. Please correct me where I fail in my thinking.

 

If FunG is saying that no cubensis cap will ever print in a glovebox, under any circumstance, because of FAE, well that's obviously wrong. But he isn't saying that. He's talking about printing the greatest number of spores. I don't see why his FAE objection is nonsense on the face of it. If it is nonsense, can better information be supplied with a reference? Just for my own personal education, because I am interested in learning.

 

It's self-evident that caps will print with or without a glovebox. Without systematic experimentation, I don't understand how anyone can say that there is One Correct Position between being a glovebox proponent, agnostic, or critic. That's not what you're saying mikey, but you do treat FunG as if that's what he's saying. The basis of that criticism seems to be that he doesn't modify his statements in the exact same way nobody does. Sidestreet's excellent "MAGIC FOR THE MASSES" doesn't provide sources for why a glovebox is recommended and also doesn't modify the recommendation with an In My Opinion. I quote from page 53:

 

 

As always, it’s very important to work in a clean environment when taking spore prints. A single spore print will allow you to grow many, many mushrooms, but if you can’t make a clean print then it is worthless to you. For this reason, you can’t just make prints on your kitchen counter if you want to grow with them. You will need to use your clean workspace and you’ll want to use your glove box.

 

This language is no more-nor-less egregious than what FunG has said. I would be equally confused if someone told Sidestreet that, actually, he is Bad for not slapping an In My Opinion on that statement. This is enough to convince me that FunG probably hasn't violated Mycotopian cultural norms of speech, except in going against the pro-glovebox-for-printing orthodoxy.

 

Going against the orthodoxy, and especially in the way that FunG does, is actually the fuel of the scientific process. The major claim for glovebox-printing seems to be that it controls sterility, and that probably isn't in dispute. FunG's claim is that a glovebox inhibits air flow and air circulation, which I think probably also isn't in dispute. What's in dispute is FunG's argument that the trade-off of flow/circulation (especially in areas of high humidity) for sterility might actually inhibit the quantity of spores you're capable of printing. This needs testing, and it might also be something unique to FunG's situation. That uniqueness is precisely the origin of the peroxidated sterilization techniques, and so not even that is necessarily a flaw in his argument. It is probably a mitigating factor that FunG ought to look into, as should we all. To uphold the orthodoxy, based on the same quality of data by which FunG departs from it, is not in the spirit of science.

 

The last point I want to address is the apparent shaming of FunG for his substance use. I will only make light note of the apparent hypocrisy of such a practice, on a forum dedicated to substances (psychedelics) that are culturally and legally relegated to the same realm as his substance of choice: meth. I don't like meth. I've had family- children- whose lives were irreparably damaged by the meth use of the people around them. Meth is Not Good. I don't need the example of a relatively chill, helpful, friendly, informative dude on the Internet to show me that meth is bad. To dismiss his claims, which again seem to be based on the same quality of evidence by which everyone else makes the opposite claim, and attempt to impugn inferiority upon his claim based on irrelevant personal shortcomings is unscientific. If it weren't for meth-heads and speed junkies, I very seriously doubt the 1900s would have been such a prosperous century of discovery, at any level of research. Uncle Fester, from the underground, and Paul Erdos of the mathematical community both proclaimed the wonders of methamphetamine.


Edited by xlcor, 18 September 2020 - 10:51 AM.


#23 coorsmikey

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Posted 18 September 2020 - 01:58 PM

I do have pics of my spore prints, the are plenty already posted from lots of previous auctions and lots of people that could chime in on the quality as well.

@xclor. Very valid points on my behaviors. Thank you for calling those out. I do need to handle ongoing issues that have been going on like this before you started observing, more professionally. That’s exactly why we have the infraction system in place. I should just use that rather than calling out someone in the open and this all could have been avoided a long time ago.


Edited by coorsmikey, 18 September 2020 - 06:27 PM.

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#24 FunG

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Posted 18 September 2020 - 02:09 PM

I wouldn't have said a glovebox is not a requirement if for the past 17 years the prints I was taking were contaminated.

But that's not the case, and I only ever took prints in open air. They're always clean, even when I rented a moldy basement apartment I used the same practice of printing in open air as outlined by free spore ring canada minus I thought using jars was outdated and opted for Tupperware containers. How on earth am I wrong if no one ever complained about contams in 17 years? That's all I want to know.

#25 xlcor

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Posted 18 September 2020 - 04:54 PM

I do have pics of my spore prints, the are plenty already posted from lots of previous auctions and lots of people that could chime in on the quality as well.

@xclor. Very valid points on my behaviors. Thank you for calling those out. I do need to handle ongoing issues that have been going on line before you started observing more professionally. That’s exactly why we have the infraction system in place. I should just use that rather than calling out someone in the open and this all could have been avoided a long time ago.

 

What I'm most concerned about is that we seem to agree I make valid points, regarding FunG's claims and their validity, and then that talk about using the infraction system. Why should there be moderator action for FunG challenging the orthodoxy with as-good evidence? If I'm reading too much into that, which I should hope I am, then I apologize and I'll rightly take my licks as having been wrong. I'll happily do so on nothing more than your good word that I am wrong, that you actually didn't intend to mean taking action on FunG for spreading "misinformation" that's as valid as the Mycotopia orthodox.

 

It's not my intention to call out anyone, nor to point out specific behaviors. The longevity as a behavior doesn't matter. The actor doesn't matter. I'm not a professional observer. What matters is the fundamental category error of labeling one thing as misinformation while letting slide all sorts of other things with quite the same character. If there is something particular to this topic, to these words, which exempts it from my criticisms then please do let me know. What I am, is I am very concerned with thoughts. Thoughts are important. Dissent is important. I wish to see science flourish and for nothing, not even the orthodoxies of science, to stand in its way. More importantly, I am fallible, and so if I am wrong anywhere, please do correct me.



#26 wharfrat

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Posted 18 September 2020 - 06:03 PM

I hate posting so many times in a row, my apologies if anyone's annoyed by this. I decided to birth and dunk the cake. Here are some pictures.

 

 

Should I be concerned about the brown stuff on the top and the thinner area on the side? It smells of pure mushroom, no bacterial contamination, but I'm having newb panics about yeast and/or cobweb mold (respectively).

this is your thread, you can post as much as you like, no worries  :biggrin:

 

the cakes look great, the brown stuff is nothing to worry about, probably discoloring due to metabolites. the mycelium looks healthy. Your environment looks a bit on the dry side

keep it humid, but give it some fresh air at least once a day, but 2 or 3 times is better.. you can spray the cakes directly and keep the vermiculite moist. I would suggest using perlite, it holds moisture just as well

but don't get all mucky. If you are not in a tub, get one now and put them in it, they will dry out in the open air.

 

 

edit: my bad,  i see you already explained your fruiting chamber  :wink:


Edited by wharfrat, 18 September 2020 - 06:07 PM.


#27 coorsmikey

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Posted 18 September 2020 - 06:26 PM

Perhaps its all in the wording and perception, but Do it like I said, It will not work any other way, when there are other tried and proven methods out there still being used to this day by experienced growers, that directly contradicts the "one and only way" is just bad advice. It does sound like misinformation and I get complaints and reports about it weekly. There is a lot of clean up that you also don't see as in half the stuff in this thread that was removed from view. I would say you don't know the whole story or the history. I chose to say something about this time as what I don't speak up about I permit, right? Its your thread until we see it as unfit content so I respect you calling me out. Did I intend to mean I would take action on FunG for "Misinformation"? I did mean that as clearly, calling it out to stop is not effective, and putting my character on the line to do so is not worth it, when a simple infraction would do it and I wouldn't have to explain myself here.

 

But where is the good evidence that you speak of? There is no infraction or rule violation challenging the orthodoxy. There are however, rules about posting about selling drugs, Spamming, Giving bad advice, and Trolling. Some of are are subjective but when they start forming a pattern and repetition it becomes easy for the observers ( and Moderators) to group the actions that fall in the gray area as in the same th.at are in violation since it is subjective. The points have been made, there is clear chance for anyone reading in to audit their behaviors to suit those rules, guidelines and contribute to the overall vibe that we try to maintain. I'm not gonna continue hashing this out here though, Anyone is welcome to PM me with genuine concerns though. In order to get the full picture out would not be appropriate to lay out every detail from the past  out in the open which I'm not going to do. If you're looking for a debate, you would be better off finding someone else, as I don't have the attention span or anything to prove.

 

Well except maybe I need prove that my prints done in a sealed environment work just fine, and that most people would prefer those prints than ones done in open air in a moldy basement. That doesn't require much attention from me.


Edited by coorsmikey, 18 September 2020 - 08:03 PM.


#28 ElPirana

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Posted 18 September 2020 - 07:59 PM

I need to make a glovebox so I can get some prints for continued cultivation.


I don’t usually have a good place to take sterile prints, so what I do is use a small or medium size plastic tote, shoebox or bigger. I clean the inside well and then put the lid upside down, set the foil on the lid, place the caps on the foil and then install the tote onto the lid. There isn’t any air movement inside the tote while the spores are dropping and it’s easy to place somewhere out of the way while waiting. I’ve been able to get some really nice prints this way.
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#29 wharfrat

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Posted 19 September 2020 - 01:41 PM

 

 


I don’t usually have a good place to take sterile prints, so what I do is use a small or medium size plastic tote, shoebox or bigger. I clean the inside well and then put the lid upside down, set the foil on the lid, place the caps on the foil and then install the tote onto the lid. There isn’t any air movement inside the tote while the spores are dropping and it’s easy to place somewhere out of the way while waiting. I’ve been able to get some really nice prints this way.

 

that right there is the best way to take spore prints  :thumbs_up:


Edited by wharfrat, 19 September 2020 - 01:41 PM.

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