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Barley Spawn


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#21 rockyfungus

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Posted 16 December 2020 - 09:56 AM

Here's my barley/vermiculite concoction. Should I have used a verm barrier on top?

I didn't shake this at all, from what I recall from the PF tek. Didn't bother re-reading it, as I felt I know enough at this point.

Anyways pictures are worth more then words, looks like I can use up all this barley I got!

 

LMbarley.JPG


Edited by rockyfungus, 16 December 2020 - 09:58 AM.

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#22 Auhron

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Posted 16 December 2020 - 11:49 PM

The verm layer for PFtek on top was (if I'm remembering correctly) primarily to prevent contaminant spores from reaching the nutrient rich grains.  The verm layer also helps to hold moisture before and after the cakes have been "birthed". 

You are working with agar though, not going straight to grain with a spore syringe. Also using your barley as spawn.  Your level of involvement is well beyond the intention of the PFtek.

 

Looks like good spawn to me.

 

Show me spines on that Lions Mane!!!!! I must live vicariously through you until mine is ready to fruit!!!! j/k My lions mane popcorn spawn is going to Masters Mix tomorrow. I sterilized my substrate today, it is now cooling.

I have a good amount of lentils kicking around, they get really really sticky and gooey if overcooked. I'm going to use them in a similar manner as you have done here with your barley. Yes I know they are a legume and not a cereal grain, but I'm tired of eating them so I'm going to feed them to my mushrooms.


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#23 jrh

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 07:29 AM

I have a good amount of lentils kicking around, they get really really sticky and gooey if overcooked. I'm going to use them in a similar manner as you have done here with your barley. Yes I know they are a legume and not a cereal grain, but I'm tired of eating them so I'm going to feed them to my mushrooms.

 

How do you use lentils? I have some soybeans, and I tried those alone as a spawn and the mycelium never took hold. Do you mix lentils with verm? Or add lentils to a grain to give little punches of protein?



#24 Auhron

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 07:58 AM

I have so far used Lentils for spawn twice: once with B+, once with Oyster Mushrooms. 

 

When I did it the first time (for the Oysters) I just used them straight up, typical soak overnight, drain for 30 minutes, Pressure cook. the mass of lentils was unbreakable. But the Oyster Mycelium loved it. I had to manhandle the mass (through the grow bag) when I transferred the jar into softwood substrate. Not ideal for spawn because it was awkward to break up but the price was right.

 

The Second time, for the B+ I had about 10% verm in the jar with them. other than that they got the same treatment. The verm helped the lentils be less bricklike, still far from ideal.  Growth rate for the  B+ was MUCH slower than the oyster, so much so that I probably wont use it for the B+ again.  I'm going to increase the verm level by a another 10% for my next go.  It was mentioned in my Blue Oyster Mushroom thread to try adding the verm, and again in this thread. if 10% verm was a minor improvement, I'm hoping there is a sweet spot to find.  Oyster Mycelium will eat almost anything from what I've read.  Also, my lentils still have the hull on, not sure if that made a difference but I figured it would be worth noting.  

 

 What type of mushroom mycelium did you try to grow? maybe it was the strain you were working with deciding it didn't like soybean. 



#25 jrh

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 09:13 AM

It was a cube, or trich, or both. I'll give the soybeans another shot, alone or with verm or oats, once I'm convinced I have clean cube mycelium.

#26 rockyfungus

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 11:01 AM

The verm layer for PFtek on top was (if I'm remembering correctly) primarily to prevent contaminant spores from reaching the nutrient rich grains.  The verm layer also helps to hold moisture before and after the cakes have been "birthed". 

You are working with agar though, not going straight to grain with a spore syringe. Also using your barley as spawn.  Your level of involvement is well beyond the intention of the PFtek.

 

Looks like good spawn to me.

 

Show me spines on that Lions Mane!!!!! I must live vicariously through you until mine is ready to fruit!!!! j/k My lions mane popcorn spawn is going to Masters Mix tomorrow. I sterilized my substrate today, it is now cooling.

I have a good amount of lentils kicking around, they get really really sticky and gooey if overcooked. I'm going to use them in a similar manner as you have done here with your barley. Yes I know they are a legume and not a cereal grain, but I'm tired of eating them so I'm going to feed them to my mushrooms.

I hope I get decent spines this time. I really have a low tech method that seems to work. I wanted to try a fruiting chamber this time, but if it's not broken I have a hard time fixing it (or breaking it more).

 

I wait for my bags to show little poms, cut an X near it. Then as they start exiting the bag I put a grocery plastic bag on top and spray the bag as needed. Any water that gets on the poms will bruise/bacterial blotch, so my biggest issue is keeping everything hydrated without getting too much water on the fruit. I have a bag of lions mane and king oyster finishing up, hopefully they fruit in a week or 2.

Oysters always throw me off, still don't know if I need a true cold shock. Or if my basement is cold enough! I tend to cycle between fridge and basement till it fruits...I may case this time to see if it helps with flushes.


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#27 Auhron

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 11:14 AM

I cold shocked my Oyster fruiting block both times. To be honest I think that some kind of higher fungal overseer made it grow so I'd get hooked to this hobby. beginners' luck  :cool:  The second flush cold shock was literally just my basement getting WAY TOO cold because winter can get stupid where I live. Maybe it was meticulous attention to detail... 


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#28 rockyfungus

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 11:24 AM

You are growing blues IIRC?

We may need to trade some genetics. Never tried any of the classic oysters, just Kings.


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#29 Auhron

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 12:19 PM

They are definitely Oysters. the culture started when I swabbed a Blue Oyster Mushroom for spores because it's gills were all wet / crushed... none of mine grew to be blue though. at any stage. Growth pattern and fruiting temps seem consistent with what Blues should be, just not the color. I cannot explain the color thing. In lower light levels they were greyish - in higher light levels they fruited  brown.



#30 rockyfungus

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 12:35 PM

Interesting, I haven't done much research, but they are mainly just pigmented differently?

I just went to put that barley into my wood bags, and my finger went right through my pasteurized bag as I loaded the spawn!!!! First time that has ever happened with bags upon bags. Really upset...Guess I'll have to redo the experiment.



#31 rockyfungus

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Posted 13 January 2021 - 12:04 PM

Re-tried a barley-verm mix. I used the exact ratio of the PF TEK, instead of 1:1. Wasn't very happy with the consistency going into the jar,  colonizing decently from a self made syringe. (checked on agar and was clean).

Unsure if seeing true darkening of substrate, or if it's just a bit wet.

barleytest.JPG



#32 rockyfungus

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Posted 01 October 2021 - 08:17 AM

Most of my barley experiment over the year have failed. Every attempt at drying and calculating hydration have been too wet.

Grinding the Barley and subbing it for BRF works to an extent.
Moisture content seems harder to control.

Went back to a true BRF cake that I’ll nocc with GLC or LI in a few days. I’ll be back with growth.

#33 rockyfungus

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Posted 02 October 2021 - 02:38 PM

By true BRF I mean barley flour.

I’ve been using the PF tek for ratios and it seems a bit different from magic for the masses. Nonetheless I don’t think verm to flour matters a whole lot as low nutrient agar proves.

Anyways… I converted from volume to weight. Volume is the most whack way to measure solid objects.

PF tek: 140ml Verm, 40 ml BRF
Barley: 20g Verm, 35g barley, ~60g H2O

#34 rockyfungus

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Posted 13 November 2021 - 01:32 PM

I don't freaking know. No clue why I said it was barley. I think based on look...Ready to toss this shit. Any other uses? Must just be old and bunk.

 

Tempted to try the grain soak for agar/lc. I think I know how it'll turn out but may give me an idea how contamed this shit is. 

malt.JPG

grain.JPG

dead.JPG

3 weeks and I don't want to wait any longer. It made it there and hasn't changed in a week?

 

 

 



#35 Myc

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Posted 13 November 2021 - 02:11 PM

Two Row malt is some really good stuff if you're making a Pilsner or Light Lager variation.

 

As stated above:

The grains have been sprouted and oven-dried (malted) so the starches and sugars are made more readily available for extraction.

 

You have enough malt to make a small batch of beer.

If you're not going to use it, I would offer it to the birds before I tossed it - but that's just me.

 

I've used Brewer's Spent Grains also. I used a 50/50 mix of spent grain / vermiculite with no supplemental additives.

Cubensis seemed to do quite well for 2 flushes before the harvest size dropped-off.  I got three flushes from a spawn bag before I tossed the project.

But you have fresh malt so it will be LOADED with sugars. In order to use it you'll have to mill the malt to expose the grain, mash-in, and extract wort for beer. Then use the spent grain for fungal propagation.  Most agar recipes rarely exceed 3% sugar in solution for promotion of higher fungi. Agar or liquid culture should not taste sweet.

Wort for beer is often 14 degrees Plato - sweet like sweet tea. This means that the solution contains roughly 14 percent sugar by weight (roughly 5 times the sugar required for fungal propagation). This may explain the inhibition in colonization that you're experiencing. 


Edited by Myc, 13 November 2021 - 02:19 PM.

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#36 rockyfungus

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Posted 13 November 2021 - 02:52 PM

Are you brewmaster yet!

Dammit I guess I could brew for those that drink. I just been there done that and made some nice browns, porters, ales, etc. I really can't drink anymore and didn't want another project. I'll just post it for free on craigslist or see if any neighbors need it.

 

What's the shelf life on those bags? The brewery tossed it so I assume it's expired? Not a very pleasant smell, expected more cereal smell. 



#37 Myc

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Posted 13 November 2021 - 03:07 PM

If it has been kept dry.....I don't know how long it lasts.

Making beer 20 barrels at a time, I rarely have any sit around for that long. I go through malt at a rate of approximately two tons per month (roughly 80 bags or more). That Two Row should smell rather pleasant - enticing enough to eat. If not, it is likely contaminated. Mold loves the stuff.

A local farmer comes by to pick up spent mash for feeding cattle and chickens.

 

A farmer might be able to mix it in as a feed additive for animals.

 

edit:

I'm just a Junior Woodchuck Brewer. Not a brewmeister just yet.

Three guesses as to who rakes-out spent mash. ;)


Edited by Myc, 13 November 2021 - 03:20 PM.

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#38 Arathu

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Posted 14 November 2021 - 10:13 AM

Long ago and far away.....I asked a brewmeister, we were sitting at a table together in a fest tent in fact when I found out who he was, questions about brewing bier........this was in a small town in Bavaria actually.......

 

He looked at me, then asked me if I was going to marry his daughter.......and laughed. Pretty sure he was responsible for the wall of wooden kegs that we were drinking, and refilling, our liter mugs from.....

 

I can make a decent batch of ale, good wines and mead, and spirits too......I just don't drink that much anymore..... and any tonnages I might refer to must be held to fictitious or anecdotal drama.....

 

I can, however, brag that not once has my blueberry wine made it into bottles numbering over a dozen (from 6 gallon batches) because people that knew I made it never let it happen.....back when we were still allowed to have parties and such...

 

I really liked Germany and the other parts of Europe I was able to experience.....it's too bad there are governments and religions........sigh

 

I'm betting the other people of the world are probably really cool too.............. and have amazing mushroom's, plant's, and brewing recipe's......

 

A


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#39 Myc

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Posted 14 November 2021 - 11:11 AM

LOL  Re: Brewing

The guys I'm learning from are all younger than I..... so no daughters to marry.

They let me hang out because of my skill(s) - I have a strong back and a weak mind. ;)

 

 

Rocky,

If you're looking for cheap bulk spawn I would recommend Rye Grass Seed.

Arkansas Valley Seed Inc. - Denver, CO.

avseeds.com  -- (877) 90-seeds

 

I've spoken to these folks and they sell rye grass seed to mushroom farms for spawn. The seed is chemical and adulterant free. Totally safe for gourmet fungal spawn.

The stuff I have is "Perennial Ryegrass, Linn".  I buy it by the 50-lb bag for home use. And it takes me two or three years to use all of it (unlike malt - lol).

Either annual or perennial seed will work perfectly. The only difference is the size of the seed body itself. 


Edited by Myc, 14 November 2021 - 11:18 AM.

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#40 rockyfungus

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Posted 17 November 2021 - 01:58 PM

Thanks for that link I'll check it out when I get through 100 more lbs.

 

I dumped one jar as it hasn't moved in maybe 2 weeks. It was basically colonized except for what was pushed against the glass. Unless it had congealed together.
Either way going to let the other jar run. Might as well try one last batch with whole grains. 10% brewer grain and 90% oats.


Edited by rockyfungus, 17 November 2021 - 01:58 PM.





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