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Some assistance please. Have I encountered the Dreaded White cotton mold here?


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#1 Paradoc

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 04:22 PM

Heya Folks. I’m kinda stuck on what to do about this jar of b+ that does not look like the others.
Has anyone got an idea if this white cotton-y stuff in here is the Dreaded White Mold?
Again, I’m looking for experienced eyes to lemme know.
These have been colonizing since the 7th. I usually have an aquarium heater under a closed tub, but today as I Removed this jar-I noticed it must have burned out. Temp was (+/-) 75*F. Cooler than the 78-80* I normally have going on.
The other 4 jars I nocc’d up with this weird one look fine. Bright white webs of spidery looking growth goin’ on..a beautiful thing.

I truly appreciate any help you all can provide to (still) a noob with Identifying what this is And advising on whether it’s a possible airborne contagion or if I can grow it out.
*OR if I should grow it Outside to prevent spreading something nasty.
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I began only in March this year and have had overwhelming success and a failure or 3. And in that time I’ve not yet been able to return the many favors I’ve been granted here. Some day soon, I will.
Thanx in advance, all.
Peace~

#2 pastyoureyes

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 04:43 PM

Looks weird, not something I've encountered before as far as I can tell. Bacterial maybe? If it's only one jar maybe best to pitch it.

#3 TVCasualty

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 04:45 PM

Put it outside. It's next to impossible to ID most vegetative mycelium to species just by looking at it (whether it's mushroom or mold mycelium). But the goopy marshmallowy-looking stuff is not the good kind of myc.

 

Try to wash away any uncolonized substrate when you do since those parts will quickly get overtaken by mold.

 

It could be from airborne spores (and a too-thin verm layer?) since it's concentrated at the top, or it could just be a few mold spores that got injected with the good ones, or from a mistake in sterile technique made while inoculating it.

 

I wouldn't get too concerned about tracking down the cause for the occasional bad jar or two since those will happen occasionally.

 

I'd also suggest continuing to incubate at 75 degrees (always, at least for cubensis). Fruit them at that temp, too.


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#4 FunG

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 04:50 PM

That cake is infected with bacteria for sure, that's why the mycelium has "walled up" as a lack of a more scientific summary.

It happens when mycelium is attempting to segregate its food source from competing organisms like molds and bacteria.

Go ahead and open it up outdoors as suggested and take a little whiff, guaranteed it will be raunchy as fack.

You can also see where the sludgy looking pf mix is, that's bacteria.
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#5 pastyoureyes

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 06:27 PM

I had the same thought as TV about the verm barrier being compromised. I always pay extra attention to that step when making cakes.
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#6 coorsmikey

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 06:58 PM

I got my money on the high temps from the heat mat causing that funky growth. I don’t think it’s “Walled up” on the bottom from a bacteria infection but rather from sitting to close the heat mat before it went out.


Edited by coorsmikey, 26 September 2020 - 04:19 PM.

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#7 Paradoc

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 09:49 PM

TVC, FunG, coorsmikey and to all providing insight...Thank you. A lot.
Thanx for the tip about inoculating at 74* instead of 80. Every other jar of about 60 (except for one) colonized perfectly at the 78-80* temp. I’ll not replace the aquarium heater that apparently broke & colonize at a lower temp.
But I defer to more experienced folks here...Hey, 6 months ago, I began with buying some spore syringes and a Two Tub ‘kit’...since It seemed to have everything I needed, I also used their advice to warm the water under colonizing tub to between 78-to 82*F for step 1. And *I have always fruited at 75-76*F (@96-98% RH) or so...no additional heat source for Step 2.

My guess about why this may have happened is right in line with TV’s assessment-after I read it..Too thin a vermiculite layer and/or I goofed on inoculation and Compromised the sterility of *something to some degree....Sad, But True.
(Being honest, I DID vary a bit in my inoculation technique-so my being rushed while doing it didn’t help either)
As I am using the pre-made brf type jars so I can’t control what I get, but don’t doubt there wasn’t enough vermiculite on top of the jar considering how close to the lid this stuff grew. To think I’ve successfully used about 60 of these so far, I really can’t complain.

Since I just saw this today, my first reaction was to Isolate the jar...until I could summon help. So it’s been Outside since I first posted.
Tomorrow I’ll glove (and mask) up, and being outside, take this out of its jar, wash off what I can, as suggested, and perhaps create an isolation FC for it.

*Should I bother with trying to salvage what I can from this cake, and try to fruit it, or would the resultant fruits be possibly “bad” ?

I sincerely thank everyone for their really prompt replies. It literally means I won’t miss a beat.

Even if this IS a total loss, knowing what to do certainly saved the project...
And, yes...It does stank...I was hesitant to smell it until I got feedback on what this was but...whewww.

Peace all. And be well. Thanx again.
P~

#8 Paradoc

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Posted 26 September 2020 - 04:03 PM

Heya all. So I examined the other 4 jars I had in with this bad one and, we’ll...Full Failure-All bad.
All jars look highly unusual and downright weird eventhough they were good just 2 days ago.
I’m not emotionally up to dealing with that just yet, but I did take the (pictured above) jar outside.
Opened it, at arms length, and saw this; Milky White growth. Kinda thick, it looked wet & Icky.
Any evidence of vermiculite at top of the jar had been ‘assimilated’ by the thick, milky white growth there. Inside the jar was quite a lot of moisture. Certainly more than I’ve seen in other projects.
I do admit that it took me about a week to notice the tops of 4 of 5 jars was loose before I tightened them. I also didn’t use the same inoculation method that worked awesomely many times before and I rushed. And I could have done better...I rushed. I got sloppy....OK; I’m over it.
(I know I know...my bad 500%
I’ll provide the other pics for the benefit of General knowledge for anyone at all who can use and maybe learn from it...soon as I photograph them.
*Inside of above pictured jar:
BAFCDFB8-4CE8-4F51-A86A-D0FB3E3894CF.jpeg

For now, I’m gonna prepare to bleach-clean the tubs in which these colonized.

Thanx all. I hope my negative experience here can help someone else to have a positive one.
I GOOFED ON THE BASICS. There, I said it.

Be well. Peace~

#9 TVCasualty

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Posted 26 September 2020 - 05:10 PM

When I began messing with fungi, every single attempt I made to grow over the course of an entire year failed with horrific contamination. Weeks of work, countless hours listening to the cooker weight rattle, days of eager anticipation all for nothing, again and again. It wasn't until later that I realized how valuable that experience was since I've seen it all when it comes to contamination or poor technique.

 

Fungi test commitment, and eventually everyone wanting or trying to grow them gets tested. If you pass by sticking with it no matter what then they reward you by making your biggest problem figuring out what to do with all the mushrooms you'll be harvesting.


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#10 Paradoc

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Posted 26 September 2020 - 07:08 PM

Thanx, TV. You’re right. I’d considered the fact that in the overall 6months I’ve taken up this rewarding hobby since my 1st project, and being at it nonstop since-this situation is my first REAL hiccup of 4 back-to-Back projects. It’s not Failure ifYa learn from it. I did.
I lost maybe $45 and a month+it’s *benefits. Compared to what you described, it’s nothing in the grand scheme of things.
And if anything, it’s strengthened my resolve to do better next time.
Fortunately my almost finished b* project has blessed me with a bit of reserve.
My next step is to clean. The tubs and the area. My fc is 30ft away, separated. Then regroup. And then? Back at it after a rest.
My thinking was to eliminate the variables of making my own jars and it was sound.
In reading through your reply, I kinda cringed realizing all the folks who devoted, literally, years to allow folks like me-a relative newbie, to have an easier time of it all. And I thank you and all the other mycomaniacs who value and cherish the fruits of this labor of love.

Regarding my mycoMess white mold situation; in your Opinion is it worth to keep? Or by virtue of this contamination is it a goner dead?
To be honest, I’d feel uncomfortable consuming anything that grew from this. But it’s why I ask for your take.
Your feedback is, and has always been, invaluable.
Thanx
Peace~

#11 TVCasualty

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Posted 27 September 2020 - 12:10 PM

If the mushrooms themselves are not contaminated then I tend to go ahead and eat them, but only after drying them completely. If I really wanted to trip and wasn't sure if they were too funky I'd make a tea but also only after they were fully dried.

 

But if a substrate hasn't fruited yet and looks suspect (but mostly okay) I tend to toss it outside but if it's mostly to totally FUBARed (more funk than myc) then I PC the jar again before cleaning it out. If it fruits outside and they look clean then I'd consume 'em like described above.

 

That said, If your intuition is telling you not to eat some for whatever reason, heed it. There will be other opportunities in the future (if you stick with it!).


Edited by TVCasualty, 27 September 2020 - 12:11 PM.

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#12 Paradoc

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Posted 28 September 2020 - 10:19 AM

Thanx for that, TV. Makes sense. For now I’ve put all 5 affected jars in a cardboard box and moved it away from my FC.

I hearYa loud and clear about whether these are or may Not be useable. Since I inoculated these on 9/7 & they are, otherwise, almost done-I’ll “birth” these outside while wearing gloves & a surgical mask(may as well) and go from there...cautiously.
The pictured jar does smell funky, the others not so much. The goopy white stuff in it seems to be still growing so that one is most likely done-done. The other 4 are in various stages of “not normally what I’ve seen”
Regardless of how *affected these are, and until I know if it’ll spread to other cakes, I’ll fruit them away from everything else.

The upside? I learned something. In all honesty, it’s why I began this-in Fact, it served a purpose.
Most likely I’ll try to fruit these outside if it’s possible to.
Life is all about learning to get back up Once more than you get knocked down. It’s a simple philosophy.

I hope to post a pic showing these out of their jars...unless this weird mutation turns me into a zombie. I’d hate that.

The overview knowledge you provide helps me move in the right direction with, at least, some more confidence than I had before.
Thanx
Peace.
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#13 Paradoc

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Posted 18 October 2020 - 06:04 PM

Update on the bad White weird cotton-y Mold issue about which I began this thread;
I gloved up and finally birthed 4 of the 5 affected cakes. That 1 (pictured above) with the wet white goopy stuff just had to be wrapped up & tossed out. Instinct told me not to mess with that 1.
I then built a (cheap) mini FC and put these 4 badly deformed cakes into it. There was quite a bit of “in the jar growth” on a few. As seen here, some are producing fruit. The 4 I’m experimenting with are not solidly cylinder shaped as none were 100% colonized at birth. Still not knowing what I was dealing with, I wanted to see *if these grew it, and ‘would this issue improve or change BY letting it grow.
When birthing, I Removed everything that hadn’t colonized which is why these look so odd shaped...even dunked a few...why not?
The following pics are what I’m looking at today. The 2 fruiting more normally have been moved into my main fc.(seen here first) Their fruits look more normal growing from what remains of the *non affected part of its cake.
**If any of you guys have input, feedback, advice or comments...I’d sincerely appreciate it all.
My Two concerns are; *Are these, in any way, contagious...Does peroxide help...how?
*Is there any way to tell if the resultant fruits from these are...bad, deadly, poisonous or icky?
HerYa go...Best to worst.
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*One *positive? I’ve not detected any funky smells Except in the jar I threw away.

Once again, I seek opinions and guidance. I’m encouraged to see some semi normal growth, but I’m also perplexed by that compressed fruit with the blue on it.( It had a twin, it’s the last pic)
I was told by a wise sage here on this forum, that when assessing & dealing with these mutants, to exercise patience and common sense. I did best I could which led me *not to toss them all out and to play with'em t& let them grow in an isolated fc so I could hopefully expand my knowledge base.
I also hope this helps someone else.

Is it possible I may salvage some of this project? If so, I owe it to the help received here.
Thanx a lot folks.
Stay safe, Stay balanced and Be well...Smile, it confuses people.
Peace~ECBA68C7-0228-4C4B-ADD2-7CC195507797.jpeg

#14 coorsmikey

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Posted 18 October 2020 - 07:10 PM

I think you have pretty much done most have the "Salvaging" already and successfully have some mushroom now. You might get a few more to pop out. Are the contagious? Absolutely if they make you smile then they are super contagious. In the proper set and setting with the right dose is safe to eat.

I stick with my original advise back in the beginning. That heat mat is not your friend and you could have had much better results without it.

I got my money on the high temps from the heat mat causing that funky growth. I don’t think it’s “Walled up” on the bottom from a bacteria infection but rather from sitting to close the heat mat before it went out.


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#15 Paradoc

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Posted 18 October 2020 - 08:30 PM

Thanx very much for taking a look coorsmikey...Although I must say I don’t use a heat mat. I feel that’s too direct a heat source.
I do, however, use an aquarium heater to warm up a tub of water-into which I have another tub with the colonizing jars. I maintain a temp between 78* to 80*F. I’ve successfully managed excellent results until this time (I’d estimate 50 jars without issue)
*This water heater broke sometime during colonization. These were actually colonizing at about 74*F Because water heater went out.
Since I began researching general cube growing criteria, most of what I’ve read suggest having the colonizing temps slightly warmer than room temp and Fruiting temps at, or about room temp (mid 70’s) Based on that, I opted to use 2 tubs to get 78* temps colonizing.
(My best guess-conclusion is rather that I somehow Compromised the sterility of my inoculation phase....I rushed)

I do appreciate your input. As I mentioned I did as much as was ‘feasible’ and that which made sense but got kinda worried about, what looked some white fuzz on one of the large mutant bent fruits.
This is a b* variant (ms) from SW. Compared to the GT I tried a few times, I find the b* variant to be quite vigorous.

My next move is just closely observing how these grow out.
I’m glad your take on all this is a net positive. I recall the advice about washing off the cakes which is what prompted my move to remove anything on the cake that didn’t look like ‘normal’ mycelia growth...YaKnow, the webby bright white stuff.

Again, Thanx.
Peace~

#16 coorsmikey

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Posted 18 October 2020 - 08:47 PM

Ok Then! Thumbs Up! Carry on.


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#17 Paradoc

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Posted 19 October 2020 - 07:48 AM

Thanx so much on this coorsmikey. Do you also feel colonizing should be done at about room temp and not 78-80*F?
TVC mentioned to both colonize And fruit cubes at about room temp..I realize this is a very basic point...but I’m still in the basic stage.
Is it your opinion, as well, that Both colonizing and fruiting should be done in the 70*F range? You seemed to feel Heat was the issue, so I wanted your opinion.
ThanxDude
Those semi-normal looking fruits exploded in size & I had to harvest them.
Just took these pics to show/share & critique.
These are, so far, the weird looking fruit I picked off.
*Is it ‘mormal’ for a stem to split open like mine pictured? Also Do these below look *off in stem color? Or...Do these look “within the realm of ok?” They are quite heavy.
)59168E3B-9789-460D-9D39-C7DA835F91D1.jpeg

Again, much thanx to everyone who took the time to assist.
Peace all.
P~

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