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Will they germinate? The Old Spores Thread...


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#1 Freaky

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Posted 12 October 2020 - 09:52 PM

Took the spore library out of it's storage container to get a view of what I'll be working with on this adventure back into the hobby. I never catalogued them and there are some where the labels are off (sharpie on plastic). There are plenty to work with until I grow bored.  If they're just too old to germinate and grow on any type of medium after hydrating then they'll make some really kickass framed artwork.  Some have handwritten messages from old friends here at Topia when they mailed them and it was nice to read through those again when going through everything.

 

 

Some pics first:

Spore Library.jpg

the youngest of the spore library and enough to have fun with attempting to germinate.  November 2004 was the oldest I kept (one of my own) with most dated 2005 through 2006.  Any older than that didn't look well taken care of and also looked like the ones I had worked with when I first started back in the late nineties early 00's so just tossed them. Those were my pre-Topia prints anyway.

Mikey - there's a few dixie prints in there  :meditate:

I think the one that surprised me was a Kreeper print but not sure if it's dark enough.

 

 

PF Albino - PFA prints.jpg PFA prints2.jpg

These are the only prints I truly, deep down, want to find a way to come alive again. Of any in the library these are the ones I want to succeed with.  These are most likely dirty but the fact I can still see the white/translucent print gives me hope.  I printed these on acid free paper - per Hippie3's suggestion during my grow with these.  Chances are slim to none, but somewhere on that paper I have hope that they'll make a come back.

 

PE print March, 2005 - Shedthemonkey gifted to me from Hippie3 Shed's PE from Hippie3.jpg

I'm going to frame this.  I think there may be a link in the old archives or even the new from Shed's grow and of his laminated printing technique. I've always treasured this print and now it will be part of the myco hobby room. If I can locate those links I'll post them.

 

 

These prints are definitely going to need hydration before they can go to any type of medium. I'm going to work with the biggest, darkest prints in the stacks to start with in the hopes that quantity of spores helps my success rate. I'm doing a lot of research and reading also, please share your experiences and any links if you would like.

 

I will be experimenting and trying many different approaches. I'm okay with failure and expect it as well as welcome it. There is always something to learn even when things don't work.

 

I look forward to others input and ideas as well as their critiques. So please, don't be shy, we're all in this together.

 

Also, part of the fun of this will be that it will not be done in front of a flow hood. I'll be using a Still Air Box or SAB. I have to replace my sterilizer/pressure canner as my AA's were dumped along with all my other large items from the past. So the first few attempts will be through simple steam sterilization practices for the hydration steps.

 

I'll update once I get some spores to sterile water. 

 

Looking forward to sharing some home mycology fun with everyone and it's so good to be back and doing what I love!

 

If you've wondered where I disappeared to; I didn't have legal trouble or anything like that lol. All was well and good, just had 3 kids to raise on my own and that, with work, didn't leave me with time or a home environment I was comfortable in growing with them in and their friends coming and going as well. It was easier to step back and enjoy those years watching them grow into independent, free-thinking, self-sufficient young adults who I am very proud of and knowing my hobby and love of Topia and mycology would be there again when the time was right. This is that time now and for the future.  

 

 

 

 

 

 


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#2 DickMoby

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Posted 13 October 2020 - 04:48 AM

Decided to answer here and not on the other post.

 

Looking forward to see how it goes.

If you want to work with fresh spores parralel to that project, I could send you PE6, Transkei and a Teacher print, those I still have a bunch of.

Got a ton of single prints and could also send some half prints of other Varieties.

____________

 

Not sure if you know about the presto 23qt, it's badass and doesn't cost much, I'm using it like many other mush people to sterilize my grain and I personally sterilize my bulk in there too.

 

 

Following you on your journey!

Cheers



#3 Mrs.Hippie3

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Posted 13 October 2020 - 08:42 AM

You said you have dixieland freaky? Dial8 i do believe has been looking for some.. how many do you have and can you spare one to him?
The prints I have left are old too some dating back to 03 but I still have my flowhood.. I'm hoping to eventually start the spore ring again and replenish my stock with fresher ones so you can help out with that and replenish your stock as well
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#4 Freaky

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Posted 13 October 2020 - 10:15 AM

DickMoby - thank you for the offer! I ordered some syringes to work with fresh spores while I have fun experimenting with these old spores from the library.

Mrs.Hip - I will have to check again for how many Dixie prints were in there but I can say specifically there is one from Dial8 with a nice little note he wrote when he sent it. So I’d love to send you any/all of the dixie prints to work with for a better chance at success given I am out of practice and without flow hood.

I’ll catalogue for us and if there are any specific prints anyone wants to work with on this adventure I would love to send them out.
I want this to be a community involved process.

Also, there are some exotic prints - if anyone is advanced enough and wants to tackle some old cyan prints I will happily send.

This isn’t by means a free print give away - these prints are likely ’dead’ with a high chance of contamination.

If there is any interest from anyone who would like to work with very old prints, I would like to share.

Mrs. Hip (MaH) you’ll be getting quite a few of these.
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#5 DickMoby

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Posted 13 October 2020 - 10:44 AM

Got you.

 

The offer remains tho.

__________

 

I'm pretty new here and don't want to be too forward, of course prefer the old friends and better known members,

I'll get a bigger order of petris in a couple weeks so theoretically I'd have some room on the side for sporework.


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#6 Freaky

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Posted 13 October 2020 - 11:20 AM

That’s awesome! You’ll definitely be included and can select from the prints which you’d like to work with. I’ll update once I catalogue so those who want to work on some old prints can choose. It’ll be a first come first serve minus any Mrs Hip wants and the dixies are already spoken for.
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#7 Mrs.Hippie3

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Posted 13 October 2020 - 01:50 PM

Cool thanks freaky! I will let dial8 know.. only other strain im personally looking for are h3s
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#8 YoshiTrainer

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Posted 13 October 2020 - 01:54 PM

Hello Freaky,
congratulations on the raising of your 2-legged herd, it is an amazing and tough process!

I've had some luck reviving old spores by adding 1g of plant charcoal per 500ml water per Cats&Bats recommendation. It worked 2 out of 4 tries. Another tip (Don Shadow?) had to do with force hydrating spores in a syringe. Spores and water in a syringe but have the barrel cap in place instead of the needle then depress the plunger a little to increase the pressure in the syringe. Maybe a vacuum sealer and a jar w/water and spores could work too?

Good luck, I look forward to reading your NEW posts. :)

#9 ElrikEriksson

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Posted 13 October 2020 - 02:26 PM

You should keep the most valuable for reviving on agar when your ready for that, assuming you go to agar.

I have great success on agar in a still air box, no flow hood needed with good enough technique.

I hope they were stored cold. I took a break from mushrooms after college, the 9-10 year old prints I stored in the back bottom of the refrigerator were 100% viable, the several prints I accidentally stored in a dark spot in my larder [consistently cool room] for 9 years were 0% viable, even on agar.



#10 coorsmikey

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Posted 13 October 2020 - 05:47 PM

Like I mentioned in PM I would like some of those classics! Dixie, PF, and Hillbilly. I am also willing to get them going on agar and with any luck will put them right back in the community. I actually prefer the old ones and I know I am closer to the original genetics that that haven't mutated or gotten mislabeled over the years. I have a culture of Hillbilly on the way but I still like the idea of actual spores that have been locked away for that long. I'm even cool with partials.


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#11 Mrs.Hippie3

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Posted 13 October 2020 - 05:58 PM

Oh yea I forgot about hillbillies! Need them too.. lol
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#12 Freaky

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Posted 13 October 2020 - 06:13 PM

Cool thanks freaky! I will let dial8 know.. only other strain im personally looking for are h3s

:thumbs_up2: I'm happy to get him back his Dixie and I'll set aside h3's as I catalogue.

 

Hello Freaky,
congratulations on the raising of your 2-legged herd, it is an amazing and tough process!

I've had some luck reviving old spores by adding 1g of plant charcoal per 500ml water per Cats&Bats recommendation. It worked 2 out of 4 tries. Another tip (Don Shadow?) had to do with force hydrating spores in a syringe. Spores and water in a syringe but have the barrel cap in place instead of the needle then depress the plunger a little to increase the pressure in the syringe. Maybe a vacuum sealer and a jar w/water and spores could work too?

Good luck, I look forward to reading your NEW posts. :)

Thanks YoshiTrainer! During some of my research I came across some old myco journal (not sure if I can upload the pdf or not, if not feel free to remove) and the charcoal was mentioned so I am definitely planning to have as an additive to the agar. I hadn't heard of the syringe spore water pressure trick. I'll have to dig around for the details and rig on the syringe as I'm sure the pressure has to be in a certain range. Likely it's a trick at the cell wall level to push force the spore to wake up in a sense. If I'm understanding correctly.

 

You should keep the most valuable for reviving on agar when your ready for that, assuming you go to agar.

I have great success on agar in a still air box, no flow hood needed with good enough technique.

I hope they were stored cold. I took a break from mushrooms after college, the 9-10 year old prints I stored in the back bottom of the refrigerator were 100% viable, the several prints I accidentally stored in a dark spot in my larder [consistently cool room] for 9 years were 0% viable, even on agar.

Yes agar is definitely the plan for these, with the age of them I can only hope there is some success rate of some kind once they go on agar and then can do some cleanup through transfers.  I'm a bit bummed though reading your results as I stored them in clean cold storage fridge for about 6-7 years but the last 8 years or so have been a cold dark airtight container so......maybe not much success will be had. I'm still going to spend some time and attempts though. 

I may come to miss my flow hood but find the still air boxes are easier to manage overall and was all I used prior to the flow hood for years so I am happy to know agar work can be achieved in them. 

 

Like I mentioned in PM I would like some of those classics! Dixie, PF, and Hillbilly. I am also willing to get them going on agar and with any luck will put them right back in the community. I actually prefer the old ones and I know I am closer to the original genetics that that haven't mutated or gotten mislabeled over the years. I have a culture of Hillbilly on the way but I still like the idea of actual spores that have been locked away for that long. I'm even cool with partials.

You are definitely accounted for one of the Dixie's and there are a few of the PF prints also.  Once I catalogue I'll set any of those three aside for you.


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#13 Freaky

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Posted 13 October 2020 - 06:19 PM

This is the pdf that gave me some information and ideas on even attempting this. I almost just figured the old prints were a lost cause and so started doing some reading and research. This isn't related to cubensis at all but the information from my old cultivation books and online research journals on other species is still helpful to me.  This was the the first I'd read about the use of charcoal and then saw that the OMC also had some success with it so it will be used.

 

Attached File  Spore_Germination_and_Development_of_Young_Micelia.pdf   815.79KB   9 downloads

 

Also, this research is related to mating, etc in the research. I ignored that as my interest lies in the germination information it contained rather then the mating information.


Edited by Freaky, 13 October 2020 - 06:24 PM.

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#14 Arathu

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Posted 13 October 2020 - 07:38 PM

I have some pretty old prints....hahaha

 

A


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#15 coorsmikey

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Posted 13 October 2020 - 07:44 PM

I have some pretty old prints....hahaha

 

A

Yeah me too! I'm getting excited for a resurrection!

IMG_5097.JPG


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#16 DetritusTheEgo

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Posted 13 October 2020 - 09:29 PM

Best of luck. +1 from me for hydrating old prints. I just tried and failed to germinate an old ps mexicana print from 2012 but didn't have success.

 

Do you have an ultrasonic cleaner? If you do it'd be cool to try hydrating two syringes on the same print and agitate one with the ultrasonic cleaner. There are some posts on the old archives about doing that for fresh prints and it decreasing germination times. I wanted to experiment doing that with my recent attempt but also didn't want to purchase the ultrasonic cleaner just for that singular purpose.

 

Hopefully you'll have better success!


Edited by DetritusTheEgo, 13 October 2020 - 09:34 PM.

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#17 Freaky

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Posted 13 October 2020 - 09:59 PM

Coorsmikey good ole' Homestead.  That's cool you still have that Jumbo Cube.


 

 

Best of luck. +1 from me for hydrating old prints. I just tried and failed to germinate an old ps mexicana print from 2012 but didn't have success.

 

Do you have an ultrasonic cleaner? If you do it'd be cool to try hydrating two syringes on the same print and agitate one with the ultrasonic cleaner. There are some posts on the old archives about doing that for fresh prints and it decreasing germination times. I wanted to experiment doing that with my recent attempt but also didn't want to purchase the ultrasonic cleaner just for that singular purpose.

 

Hopefully you'll have better success!

 

I remember those old threads about the ultrasonic's - good reading in those threads. If I show any success on any of these I'll think about possibly doing some comparison on agitation during hydration. Would be interesting to document.

 

Sorry about your ps mexicana - a majority of my old prints are cubensis so I'm hoping they won't be as stubborn and even if I'm not successful it's possible someone else is or discovers something promising or positive in the overall process and longevity of cube spores in general.

 

I catalogued and will post up what I picked as the best candidates from the prints. I'll post that list once I finish organizing my notes on them.


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#18 Freaky

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Posted 13 October 2020 - 11:39 PM

* Indicates print(s) already claimed by others or myself to work with.
 
  • Acadian Coast - 1 print (very light)
  • Cambodian - 1 print
  • *Dixie - 2 total
  • EC (Ecuador) - 1 print
  • GT (Golden Teacher) - Wild Print circa 2005 - labeled GT but it's a Florida Cube
  • *Hillbilly - 3 total
  • *Malaysian - 1
  • Mex Pal - 1 (one I printed)
  • Oaxaca - 3 (multiple prints on tyvek sheets - lots to work with)
  • PE - 2 (one used and one I printed)
  • PE 6 - 1
  • PES Hawaiian - 1 
  • *PFA + PFC - 2
  • *PFA - 2 
  • *PF Classic - 2 total
  • Phx ? Phoenix? - 1 - (this may be an oyster. I honestly have no idea until the foil is opened.)
  • *Red Boy - 1
  • SA (South American) - 1 Print
  • STR? Stargazer? - 1 (5 prints on tyvek in baggie. No idea on this one either or where it came from)
  • *TED - Thai Elephant Dung - 1
  • Texas Goliad - 1
  • Yosterizii - 2 (one print I used a portion, other has never been opened)
  • Z - 3 (1 big foil print, 2 on notecards)
 
 
Exotics - most of these are very light prints and will require advanced skills beyond what I am capable of.
  • Ps Tampanensis
  • Pan Goliath - 2
  • Fl Cyan - 1
  • Pan Vietnamese - 1
  • Ma Sol Cyan - 1
 
The following are highly suspect and probably not worth wasting a stamp on and will most likely be good for nothing excepts contams or extreme disappointment.
  • PESA
  • Pink Buffalo (what's left of the spores in the zippie)
  • Keeper Creeper
  • Quezon (what's left of the spores in the zippie)
  • Burma (what's left of the spores in the zippie)
  • Unknown - not marked
  • Z - 2 on notecards
  • B+ - 5 prints on tyvek sandwiched in press n seal

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#19 DickMoby

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Posted 14 October 2020 - 12:13 AM

Id love to give PE, pan goliath and creeper a try.

Trying to get goliath and PE since years


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#20 Freaky

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Posted 14 October 2020 - 09:56 AM

Id love to give PE, pan goliath and creeper a try.
Trying to get goliath and PE since years


Sounds good DickMoby start getting your agar supplies and such ready.
As long as you’re okay with knowing ahead that these may not grow at all or may grow contaminated when started they’re yours to work with.




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