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Shelf life of sterilized grain jar?


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#1 Jrotten

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Posted 18 October 2020 - 07:58 PM

How long can grain be kept for? Is the refrigerator or freezer a valid option? Each jar has a single 1/4” hole with cloth medical tape over it.

#2 Salty117

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Posted 18 October 2020 - 08:17 PM

I imagine they could be kept for months in a fridge. I would be concerned with natural evaporation over time if left out at room temps for a long period of time.

As for freezing.. I think I would be concerned about freezer burn. This is all my opinion though and I'm always learning as well.


Edited by Salty117, 18 October 2020 - 08:19 PM.


#3 FunnyFarmer

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Posted 18 October 2020 - 10:48 PM

You'd be treating it like sterilized food and as such it would have a good shelf life in the fridge but I wouldn't go much beyond a few months. As long as bacteria or spores can't get to the grain you'd most likely be OK. Another thing to consider, freezing it would rupture the cell walls of hydrated grain, not so with fresh grain.



#4 FunG

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Posted 19 October 2020 - 08:20 AM

I've had a control jar sitting un-innoculated ontop of my fridge for about 2 months, seal cracked and no tinfoil lid, a piece of micropore tape for the filter. It's still good for use. I might leave it for another month and then inoculate it to test for exactly what you're inquiring about.

But I can easily see a sterilized jar without the seal being cracked lasting more then 6 months if left unopened and covered.
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#5 Jrotten

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Posted 19 October 2020 - 10:47 PM

I just dropped a wedge from everything interesting that needed throwing out so I won’t get to find out this time. Switching to half pint jars allows me a dozen jars of grain and 3 bags of sub and I don’t have to screw with spacers and all that nonsense. I have to run the PC for 4 hours, but it makes use of every bit of space!
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#6 Jrotten

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Posted 23 November 2020 - 11:50 PM

So I wound up with wet grains and left 3/4 full half pints with one 3/16” hole covered with medical tape sitting out in the garage for a month. They had created a block in the PC run. One grew a nasty black but the other two stayed perfectly clean to the eye and nose and even dried a bit. They’d had made better spawn after sitting a month I think!

So anyways the conclusion to this post was 34 days when I needed the jars.

#7 thafunkyone

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Posted 24 November 2020 - 10:59 AM

If grain jars are properly hydrated and colonized they can keep for months. Keep them close to freezing but not frozen, it slows everything down in growth/death cycle. I've kept them in the fridge for several months as long as your fridge isn't nasty. It's similar to keeping agar in the fridge. I'd imagine you could keep them for years that way and revive it with a g2g as long as it was kept clean.



#8 Jrotten

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Posted 24 November 2020 - 03:02 PM

If grain jars are properly hydrated and colonized they can keep for months. Keep them close to freezing but not frozen, it slows everything down in growth/death cycle. I've kept them in the fridge for several months as long as your fridge isn't nasty. It's similar to keeping agar in the fridge. I'd imagine you could keep them for years that way and revive it with a g2g as long as it was kept clean.

This was uncolonized grain.  Never inoculated.  The medical tape even in a dirty, draft free area works pretty well as a contaminant barrier.  Real things to store have a minifridge lol or a deep freeze.



#9 smellitstinknot

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Posted 25 November 2020 - 05:05 AM

 I've left grains for 3 months before inoculating without issue.



#10 scott_1971_h

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Posted 25 November 2020 - 06:31 AM

I have a jar of wheat grain that I sterilised back in 2017. Nothing has gone wrong with it yet BUT it is in a fully sealed mason jar.

Not sure it would be so with just micropore tape.



#11 thafunkyone

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Posted 25 November 2020 - 08:40 AM

 

If grain jars are properly hydrated and colonized they can keep for months. Keep them close to freezing but not frozen, it slows everything down in growth/death cycle. I've kept them in the fridge for several months as long as your fridge isn't nasty. It's similar to keeping agar in the fridge. I'd imagine you could keep them for years that way and revive it with a g2g as long as it was kept clean.

This was uncolonized grain.  Never inoculated.  The medical tape even in a dirty, draft free area works pretty well as a contaminant barrier.  Real things to store have a minifridge lol or a deep freeze.

 

 

Duh- I guess I need to smoke less weed sometimes haha. 

 

If I don't innocutate within a few days (3-4) I'll generally toss it and start over- the way I see it, it costs almost nothing to dump a jar of grain (even multiple) and start over to give the myc a chance at optimal growth. Otherwise, with less than optimal conditions I have less likelihood of success- I want fast colonizing, strong spawn. If I used old jars and they only partially colonized or contaminated I just wasted my time, my innoculant, and my real estate I could have used for a successful jar. Wasting 2 weeks to watch a jar take a shit on me when I could have spent 3 hours and .50c on a fresh one sounds like a waste of time.

 

It might be sterile, but medical tape allows for moisture exchange and I feel like it would no longer be optimal after a few days. Also, sterilization kills bacteria, but the product still decomposes. It doesn't happen super quick obviously, but if you've ever opened canned food that has been around for a couple years it definitely degrades from the moment it was canned/sterilized. My exwife's father has a massive garden and he cans everything- he has jars that are YEARS old and I'm sure they're still safe, but the veggies inside have broken down to a point that I wouldn't want to eat them 

 

I could be totally wrong, but any steps I can do to ensure my success I will take every time. 



#12 FunG

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Posted 25 November 2020 - 09:55 AM

If grain jars are properly hydrated and colonized they can keep for months. Keep them close to freezing but not frozen, it slows everything down in growth/death cycle. I've kept them in the fridge for several months as long as your fridge isn't nasty. It's similar to keeping agar in the fridge. I'd imagine you could keep them for years that way and revive it with a g2g as long as it was kept clean.

This was uncolonized grain. Never inoculated. The medical tape even in a dirty, draft free area works pretty well as a contaminant barrier. Real things to store have a minifridge lol or a deep freeze.

Duh- I guess I need to smoke less weed sometimes haha.

If I don't innocutate within a few days (3-4) I'll generally toss it and start over- the way I see it, it costs almost nothing to dump a jar of grain (even multiple) and start over to give the myc a chance at optimal growth. Otherwise, with less than optimal conditions I have less likelihood of success- I want fast colonizing, strong spawn. If I used old jars and they only partially colonized or contaminated I just wasted my time, my innoculant, and my real estate I could have used for a successful jar. Wasting 2 weeks to watch a jar take a shit on me when I could have spent 3 hours and .50c on a fresh one sounds like a waste of time.

It might be sterile, but medical tape allows for moisture exchange and I feel like it would no longer be optimal after a few days. Also, sterilization kills bacteria, but the product still decomposes. It doesn't happen super quick obviously, but if you've ever opened canned food that has been around for a couple years it definitely degrades from the moment it was canned/sterilized. My exwife's father has a massive garden and he cans everything- he has jars that are YEARS old and I'm sure they're still safe, but the veggies inside have broken down to a point that I wouldn't want to eat them

I could be totally wrong, but any steps I can do to ensure my success I will take every time.

I admire your enthusiasm for being so readily available to make up fresh grain spawn. Just 14 jars worth is enough to keep me running ragged for a day or two.

#13 Jrotten

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Posted 25 November 2020 - 01:11 PM

Yeah I didn't use them.  I could see using unmodified lids and inoculating in a hood and just putting on a breathable lid, but I've started doing everything on a very small scale so it's less of an issue.  I do hate making grain, but a dozen half pints is a very manageable amount to do a full simmer, overnight drain and I can do the dozen with 3 bags of substrate, or a few sleeves worth of agar, or even a whole other dozen jars of grain which would defeat the purpose of half pints for the most part lol






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