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Question about unknown mold/gel/ ?


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#1 FunnyFarmer

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Posted 22 October 2020 - 03:33 PM

Greetings fellow shroomers. I'm dealing with a stalled BRF cake so I tried lightly spraying with alcohol then dunking overnight. This morning I put it back in the FC then checked on it later and discovered a blue tinted gel like material coating parts of the cake. I'm wondering if anyone has experience with this and can identify it? Is it manna from heaven?

DSC01540 (Medium).JPG

 

DSC01547 (Medium).JPG

 

Thanks



#2 HrVanker

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Posted 22 October 2020 - 03:42 PM

Gel like substances are usually a sign of bacteria. But in this case, my guess is that the alcohol negatively impacted the mycelium causing cytoplasm to leak out the cells. If you take a fresh mushroom and dip it in alcohol, it will start to become gelatinous as well.

If you're going to use a disinfectant of some type, peroxide is best. But a diluted bleach solution would also work. I'm not sure what the ratio is for bleach, but 50/50 peroxide/water mixture has worked well for me in the past.
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#3 FunG

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Posted 22 October 2020 - 04:11 PM

I've gotten a clear gel on a monotub before but it fruited fine.

First time I'd ever seen it. It didnt smell bad or anything just looked like someone had gobbed on it.

And I dont know why you're having the issues your having with your pf cakes funnyfarmer, I'm speculating that the syringes may have contained trace amounts of bacteria rather then problems with the pf cake process.

Would you like me to send you a clean gt print? (Clean as in spores collected before the veil opened, sterilized tinfoil and storage container and directly into a unused ziplock)

It may solve the issues you've been experiencing with poor germination (another sign of bacteria)

Just send me a pm if your intrested.

Edited by FunG, 22 October 2020 - 04:16 PM.


#4 FunnyFarmer

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Posted 22 October 2020 - 04:36 PM

I remember reading about H2O2 uses a while back and bought some just in case but totally forgot about it. So far nothing smells amiss with it, would it be in my best interest to shave off the offending gel or just let it go? The little pins seem to be doing good so far.

 

Something else I recently read about is the use of coffee grounds. Unfortunately I missed the part about using used grounds, I used fresh grounds. Hopefully I'll remember the next time.

 

Thanks for the heads up guys!



#5 HrVanker

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Posted 22 October 2020 - 04:44 PM

I would steer clear of coffee grounds too. Coffee tends to be acidic which is perfect for a lot of contaminations, particularly bacteria. Some do like to use it in bulk subs, but that is usually with a PH adjustment. And even so many have had contamination problems so it's mostly not used anymore.

Stalled cakes are usually caused by inhospitable fruiting environment, contamination, or just bad genes. If your other cakes are fruiting fine, it's probably not the fruiting environment. But it doesn't hurt to double check your temps and RH.
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#6 FunG

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Posted 23 October 2020 - 12:12 AM

The secret to using coffee grounds successfully without rolling the dice is to gather the used grounds from a commercial coffee maker.

They heat the water hotter and brew more evenly then your average household coffee makers and in doing so they (the commercial coffee makers) leech out much more of the "richness" of the coffee grounds.

People fail with grounds because they make the same mistake and use fresh grounds instead of "spent" grounds or as I previously said, people dont use properly spent grounds and chance it with grounds from their home percolator.

That's years of my research started in RR's footsteps summarized with the correct explanations.
No need to do the problem solving when I did it for everyone's sake already.

#7 HrVanker

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Posted 23 October 2020 - 12:35 AM



The secret to using coffee grounds successfully without rolling the dice is to gather the used grounds from a commercial coffee maker.

They heat the water hotter and brew more evenly then your average household coffee makers and in doing so they (the commercial coffee makers) leech out much more of the "richness" of the coffee grounds.

People fail with grounds because they make the same mistake and use fresh grounds instead of "spent" grounds or as I previously said, people dont use properly spent grounds and chance it with grounds from their home percolator.

That's years of my research started in RR's footsteps summarized with the correct explanations.
No need to do the problem solving when I did it for everyone's sake already.


As someone who has used commercial coffee makers for years, I wonder about the accuracy of your statements...

Commercial machines operate in a very similar manner to home coffee makers (percolators are seldom used at home anymore). In fact, the basket in a Bunn tends to drain more quickly than a home machine because restaurants need coffee quickly.

And you can't get water any hotter than 212° w/o added pressure, which means you're talking about an espresso machine. Both home and commercial machines heat the water to just below boiling...

I'm just having a difficult time seeing your logic.

#8 DarkPassenger

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Posted 23 October 2020 - 03:55 AM

Interesting thread. Speaking of using spent coffee, has anyone experimented with used espresso grounds? Or insta coffee?

DP

#9 FunG

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Posted 23 October 2020 - 05:20 AM

The secret to using coffee grounds successfully without rolling the dice is to gather the used grounds from a commercial coffee maker.

They heat the water hotter and brew more evenly then your average household coffee makers and in doing so they (the commercial coffee makers) leech out much more of the "richness" of the coffee grounds.

People fail with grounds because they make the same mistake and use fresh grounds instead of "spent" grounds or as I previously said, people dont use properly spent grounds and chance it with grounds from their home percolator.

That's years of my research started in RR's footsteps summarized with the correct explanations.
No need to do the problem solving when I did it for everyone's sake already.

As someone who has used commercial coffee makers for years, I wonder about the accuracy of your statements...

Commercial machines operate in a very similar manner to home coffee makers (percolators are seldom used at home anymore). In fact, the basket in a Bunn tends to drain more quickly than a home machine because restaurants need coffee quickly.

And you can't get water any hotter than 212° w/o added pressure, which means you're talking about an espresso machine. Both home and commercial machines heat the water to just below boiling...

I'm just having a difficult time seeing your logic.

Spent grounds from home coffee makers do not get leeched of the nutritional content of the coffee grounds as well as those prepared in a resteraunt coffee maker, it's TRUE. Unless you have one if the newest models out on the market or a really good older model. Most mid to even hi end coffee makers do not evenly saturate the grounds and they do not operate at 212f more like 180f.

I could add coffee grounds to every monotub I make if they're from a commercial chain of restaurants and not run into trich which is more common then bacteria when using grounds.... using home brew trich would always show up in the 2nd flush.

All my testing was done throughout a period of years before I figured out where I was going wrong with the grounds.

Remind you, I just use straight coir these days without any additives with the same results.
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#10 Severian

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Posted 23 October 2020 - 09:40 AM

Mycellium can bruise blue when stressed;

 

I've experienced that bluing reaction when attempting to mist 70% iso onto some trich that had appeared- anywhere that the iso hit the mycellium turned blue.

 

 

 

edit: I remember that the bluing happened most intensely when I was spraying distilled 5% vinegar, not ISO- but the bluing can be a general stress response.


Edited by Severian, 23 October 2020 - 10:31 AM.

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#11 FunnyFarmer

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Posted 23 October 2020 - 06:28 PM

I checked the problem cake today and it's finally sprouting pins so for the time being I'm gonna let it go. Another question, would I be further ahead to gently slice off the "gel" to clean cake or let it go?



#12 TVCasualty

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Posted 24 October 2020 - 09:58 AM

Don't cut into a substrate that's iffy as it will only make any contamination present worse.

 

The cake might be fine as far as contamination is concerned, just a bit stressed. If it's pinning then it's doing what you want it to so don't mess with it or it might stop.

 

 

The thing about coffee I don't get is what the advantage of using it with cubensis is supposed to be. I've used it quite a bit back when everyone was (in all its forms), but I didn't notice any loss in potency or yield or colonization speed when I stopped. So to me it's just something to add that doesn't seem to contribute anything even in a best-case scenario.


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#13 coorsmikey

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Posted 24 October 2020 - 10:32 AM

Like one of those things, that if the coffee didn't kill it and mushrooms grew, then it must be good?


Edited by coorsmikey, 24 October 2020 - 10:32 AM.

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#14 FunnyFarmer

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Posted 24 October 2020 - 11:17 AM

OK, I'm convinced!!! No more coffee in the substrate. As for coffee in me it doesn't apply as I'm not a fan of it so no used grounds anyway. Anybody want a couple bags of Aldi generic coffee? Works good for keeping slugs out of the shroom garden patch. Damn little buggers, almost as bad as starlings in a corn field, or whatever they feed on... And not inclined to eat them to get the psycylciben back either. ERK, ERK, ERK!!!

Maybe someone thought the coffee would wake up the spores and get them spore-alating faster like it does for humans.



#15 kcmoxtractor

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Posted 27 October 2020 - 09:02 AM

The reason you use coffee is the same reason you use any supplements for growing mushrooms; increased amino acid content results in an increased yield. Still though, coffee is shit as a supplement. It has some serious negatives that can't be overcome no matter how it's prepped.

Use bran, wheat middlings, or beet pulp if you want to add a supplement. No pH swings, and no partial/undigested bean amino acids leading to trichoderma contamination.

#16 FunG

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Posted 27 October 2020 - 10:36 AM

Worm casings as well

Although I didnt notice much of a difference while using those in my tubs neither. Just increased metabolite production but they are proven to increase yield of tested isolates by 5% .

A friend of mine from Amsterdam was able to successfully grind corn cob into a powder and used that to test the bio efficiency, the results were amazing. Corn cob is sold as a animal feces absorbent bedding you can find it in most pet shops, it holds a ton of water but trying to grind it down into flour is where I couldnt succeed or else I'd be using it in my grows....

I did however use it whole with 3tbs of colonized rye and got a fairly impressive flush out of it.

Further experimenting wouldn't hurt if your open yo spending the time with a experimental substrate. It's also as resistent to contams as coir.

Edited by FunG, 27 October 2020 - 10:42 AM.





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